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Should I put the code for Seaweed Assault on the bB page?

Seaweed Assault on the bB page.  

22 members have voted

  1. 1. Should I put the code for Seaweed Assault on the bB page?

    • Yes.
      19
    • No. The bloated code would confuse me and make me cry.
      1
    • I don't care.
      1
    • I'd rather poke myself in the eye with a wet banana.
      1


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Should I put the code for Seaweed Assault on the bB page? I ask this because I planned to put some version of ChipOff on the bB page, but it ended up being too bloated and complicated to be helpful, so I gave up on it. The code for Seaweed Assault isn't much better, so it might do more harm than good.

 

If people want it on the page, it will give me an excuse to update the REMs and clean up the code a little, but if nobody wants the code on the page, that's less work for me, so it's a win-win situation. Merry Christmas to me either way.

 

 

Speaking of adding things to the bB page, the code for Princess Rescue with additional comments by Sprybug was just put on the bB page yesterday:

 

randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-batari-basic-commands.html#ex_princess_rescue

 

 

And now here's a video for your enjoyment:

 

youtube.com/watch?v=GL2hYF2a2aY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL2hYF2a2aY

 

 

Update:

 

The code is on the bB page now:

 

randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-batari-basic-commands.html#ex_seaweed_assault

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Should I put the code for Seaweed Assault on the bB page? I ask this because I planned to put some version of ChipOff on the bB page, but it ended up being too bloated and complicated to be helpful, so I gave up on it. The code for Seaweed Assault isn't much better, so it might do more harm than good.

 

If people want it on the page, it will give me an excuse to update the REMs and clean up the code a little, but if nobody wants the code on the page, that's less work for me, so it's a win-win situation. Merry Christmas to me either way.

 

 

Speaking of adding things to the bB page, code for Princess Rescue with additional comments by Sprybug is on the bB page now:

 

randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-batari-basic-commands.html#ex_princess_rescue

Yes, put it up, I always enjoy seeing other people's coding style and techniques

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Thanks for the replies. Maybe I should stick a poll here to make it easier for people. [i just did.]

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You should, and you should comment it. There are not so useful comments like:

 

a = a + 5 'Add 5 to A

 

...and more useful ones, like:

 

x = + 3 'Update player position

 

, and

 

if x = 5 then x = 0 : goto [somewhere] 'if noise counter hits the top, start over, and skip incrementing it

x = x + 1 'otherwise, increment the noise counter.

 

A one line, or two line comment on most of the code will be a big help to others. If it were me, that's what I would do. Open up the code, and just comment the crap out of it, then post it.

 

The reason is all about understanding three things:

 

1. What the code actually does

 

2. How the developer thinks

 

3. How both of those contribute to a working thing.

Edited by potatohead

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Thanks for the replies. OK, I'll start getting it ready for the bB page.

 

 

Christmas seems to be coming 27 days early.

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Nice, posting your source.
I would like to say that it can't hurt.

In my case with DK Arcade 2600, Byte Knight did the game logic along with Rev Eng and bogax helping.

They described it as easy collision and platform checking and movement updates, but to be honest, even after reading the code thousands of times I haven't learned much from it. I couldn't write it that well where it enemies appear to be chasing you. (Of course they are not chasing you, but when you continue to remove paths that an enemy can randomly choose to take, it appears they get smarter at getting to you.)

 

My solo effort would probably be more like how the original 2600 version where the "fire enemies" move back and forth, left and right.

I also could not take a written routine and turn it in to nested loops with data tables that bogax seems to do so effortlessly. It is a foreign language that I don't understand.

 

Then there is, in writing code, when you can get the same result by using different batari Basic code. Knowing what the Atari does and what the basic is compiled into, coding a certain way can be save ROM space, or use more ROM space but use less cycles.

Code size versus code speed is just one of many compromising choices.

 

The spinning death sprites and where DK inverts and falls to the bottom girders took up so much graphic space, I had to scrap the opening scene where DK climbs the horizontal girders and stomps them diagonally, but those death effects and the selection title screen were chosen over the girder climb/stomp.

 

P.S. I guess it is because I really don't know a lot about coding that I don't understand why you think 35 variables plus a 256 byte file cabinet stack is not enough. D.K. Arcade 2600 uses only 33, plus three stack bytes to flip the score / countdown timer value.

 

I found ways to save hundreds and hundreds of bytes per bank in Princess Rescue and Zippy, but they were deemed "finished" by the time I saw the source code.

I can optimize like crazy, but I've never really learned any coding from seeing the source.

Again, that may just be me, and I wasn't actively trying to learn new coding or use routines from the source code.

I do better with, "Here is a sound effect routine. Change these 12 bytes to make different sounds and call it every game loop."

Things like that I can use.

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Should I remove the title screen and replace it with a simple blocky one so the code will compile without needing a special folder?

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I voted no just cause I am feeling contrary today and I didn't want to poke my eye with a banana.

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I think most of the value in posting the source code is for programmers that understand the basics of bB. They'll either be looking for answers to specific questions (e.g. how does he slow down the craft?) or seeking out advanced tips. Tune your comments to that audience.

 

Learning the basics of bB by reading a monster program is akin to learning English by reading a Shakespeare play. In fact it's worse, since the crazy pressure on optimizing ROM and RAM usage drives all 2600 games toward a spaghettified structure and intense variable reuse. So its more like learning English from a Shakespeare play with random page order and multiple characters that share the same names.

 

Beginners need "See Spot Run", which you already provide with code snipplets on your site.

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I think most of the value in posting the source code is for programmers that understand the basics of bB. They'll either be looking for answers to specific questions (e.g. how does he slow down the craft?) or seeking out advanced tips. Tune your comments to that audience.

 

Learning the basics of bB by reading a monster program is akin to learning English by reading a Shakespeare play. In fact it's worse, since the crazy pressure on optimizing ROM and RAM usage drives all 2600 games toward a spaghettified structure and intense variable reuse. So its more like learning English from a Shakespeare play with random page order and multiple characters that share the same names.

 

Beginners need "See Spot Run", which you already provide with code snipplets on your site.

(Good to know it is not just me. )

You put the point I was trying to make more clearly in your Shakespeare multiple characters with same names analogy.

 

Also, there are title screen kernel tutorials, so leaving that folder out makes compiling less confusing. I don't think there is anything to be learned from the titlescreen folder as it is just data and assembly code to be included.

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Thanks for the replies

 

 

Also, there are title screen kernel tutorials, so leaving that folder out makes compiling less confusing. I don't think there is anything to be learned from the titlescreen folder as it is just data and assembly code to be included.

 

Thanks. I'll get rid of it for this version.

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I voted yes AND poked myself in the eye (and then my wife) with at least one banana!

Careful. Too many kids and you won't have time to finish programming your games.

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Nice, posting your source.

I would like to say that it can't hurt.

In my case with DK Arcade 2600, Byte Knight did the game logic along with Rev Eng and bogax helping.

They described it as easy collision and platform checking and movement updates, but to be honest, even after reading the code thousands of times I haven't learned much from it. I couldn't write it that well where it enemies appear to be chasing you. (Of course they are not chasing you, but when you continue to remove paths that an enemy can randomly choose to take, it appears they get smarter at getting to you.)

 

My solo effort would probably be more like how the original 2600 version where the "fire enemies" move back and forth, left and right.

I also could not take a written routine and turn it in to nested loops with data tables that bogax seems to do so effortlessly. It is a foreign language that I don't understand.

 

Then there is, in writing code, when you can get the same result by using different batari Basic code. Knowing what the Atari does and what the basic is compiled into, coding a certain way can be save ROM space, or use more ROM space but use less cycles.

Code size versus code speed is just one of many compromising choices.

 

The spinning death sprites and where DK inverts and falls to the bottom girders took up so much graphic space, I had to scrap the opening scene where DK climbs the horizontal girders and stomps them diagonally, but those death effects and the selection title screen were chosen over the girder climb/stomp.

 

P.S. I guess it is because I really don't know a lot about coding that I don't understand why you think 35 variables plus a 256 byte file cabinet stack is not enough. D.K. Arcade 2600 uses only 33, plus three stack bytes to flip the score / countdown timer value.

 

I found ways to save hundreds and hundreds of bytes per bank in Princess Rescue and Zippy, but they were deemed "finished" by the time I saw the source code.

I can optimize like crazy, but I've never really learned any coding from seeing the source.

Again, that may just be me, and I wasn't actively trying to learn new coding or use routines from the source code.

I do better with, "Here is a sound effect routine. Change these 12 bytes to make different sounds and call it every game loop."

Things like that I can use.

 

I remember that. Maybe I should call for your services after I release the demo level of Robot Zed and have you look at the code.

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I remember that. Maybe I should call for your services after I release the demo level of Robot Zed and have you look at the code.

I would love to optimize.

The extra space can let you make the final game more polished, or add some creative thing you did not have enough rom to make it.

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Christmas seems to be coming 27 days early.

Speaking of that, I'm not even halfway through updating the code on this 21st day of December. It's looking like it might be more like 27 days after Christmas by the time this monstrosity is ready for the bB page. :dunce:

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I would say yes. The "simple blocky one so the code will compile" would work best I think for new programmers like myself. Some code I can look at at see how it works then some is far above what I can do now. Finding sample code and other source code I think would help all of us as Tarzilla said "seeing other people's coding style and techniques". I have started to adopt your style from what you sent back to me a few weeks ago. That was a great start to get me going. Like I said I think anything will help us beginners from the one's who are advanced in programming.

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Thanks for posting that. It is a great learning assist.

 

Thanks for looking at it. I think you might be the first since I posted it. :D

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