phoenixdownita Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 Before anyone mentions the core that Greg has written let it be known that it will only run roughly 30% of known games maybe more but is in no way perfect and also lacks audio. Who's Greg? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chorne27983 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Who's Greg?He is the author of the somewhat working Genesis core. Also known as Torlus Edited February 17, 2016 by Chorne27983 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 He is the author of the somewhat working Genesis core. I see: https://github.com/Torlus/fpgagen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretthorror Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 What you guys are forgetting is these are individual people making these FPGA cores. You can't compare those basement dwellers with soldering guns to a team with 972 combined years of successful industry experience. These guys can knock out a core over lunch and stick a SNES inside a Jag shell on the ride home. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Torlus (Greg Estrade) has also written a fantastic PC Engine FPGA core which is open-source and has been ported to the TC64 and the MiST (with improvements) by AMR (Alistair Robertson). Runs most games with sound except the larger ones and the tiny supergrafx library.I like this way of doing things; if that core was made/funded by a corporation it surely wouldn't be open and any extensions would be unlikely. Edited February 17, 2016 by Newsdee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiru Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 What was really strange to me as the Toyfair thing started is that the whole talk about using FPGA ressurected again. When CC was first mentioned, that it is going to be cost-effective now, I was totally sure it is going to be an ARM SoC, without FPGA at all, at least not for emulation purposes (maybe as glue logic for cart interface). Really, there is absolutely no point to have a FPGA core for anything, if you're not going to use actual original cartirdges for the old system. If you only going to re-issue a handful of games on new media, software emulator is all that it really takes. Much cheaper in all regards (development, licensing, production of everything) as well. So it really looks like actual development of the newer system never took place, even at conceptual level. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chorne27983 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Torlus also written a fantastic PC Engine core which is open-source and has been ported to the TC64 and the MiST (with improvements) by AMR. Runs most games with sound except the larger ones and the tiny supergrafx library. I kind of like this way of doing things; if that core was made/funded by a corporation it surely wouldn't be open and any extensions would be unlikely. I think it's awesome that people are doing this as well. My issue lies with the way Mike magically has a fully functional SNES core when most of the available cores lack audio, have timing issues, compatibility problems etc. To have a fully functioning 16-bit core would put the cost of this system over $200 easily based on the cost of the FPGA and arm processor alone. Edited February 17, 2016 by Chorne27983 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaNaix Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) I think it's awesome that people are doing this as well. My issue lies with the way Mike magically has a fully functional SNES core when most of the available cores lack audio, have timing issues, compatibility problems etc. To have a fully functioning 16-bit core would put the cost of this system over $200 easily based on the cost of the FPGA and arm processor alone. I suspect he's using clever semantics. Like I said earlier, products like the Retron5 and RetroFreak consoles contain an FPGA and an ARM processor. They are emulation based and running hacked versions of RetroArch/Libretro, which uses "cores" for each of the emulators so, if that's where this has ended up, he would have "a working SNES core." Technically, that wouldn't be a lie. Edited February 17, 2016 by xiaNaix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) I think they're faking the prototype, but looking at the price of the MiST on dragonbox.de, its around 188 USD. It does not run SNES yet but (in theory) it has the FPGA for it. Somebody (chaos) pulled off Amiga AGA, so a SNES seems possible at that price point, barring greed adding a huge margin to it. Granted it doesn't have cartridge ports so maybe we should add the price of a Retrode (60 bucks). That'sa bit over 200 but I'm sure you could save on the case and component costs if they're wired together. Edited February 17, 2016 by Newsdee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 On second thought I think you're right, because if you add the licensing of 3rd party cores (assuming you couldn't package open source ones republishing modified code) and stuff like advertising etc. you end up with a higher total cost. Unless you have enough volume to save significantly in manufacturing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) New video. The Coleco Chameleon Is Unintentional Snake Oil. Don't Buy It! (ReviewTechUSA) I don't like the title, I wish he would have done some research and take the word "unintentional" out. His stuff is click-bait-y and he just regurgitates what people were saying during the RVGS IGG campaign but I guess they're still valid points. He has half a million subs so at least his recommendation to stay away from them will travel far. Edited February 17, 2016 by StopDrop&Retro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 This guy spent 8 months implementing an FPGA SNES on a $600 Altera DE2 Cyclone IV - impressed even experienced hardware engineers, but got as far as "There is a timing issue, it will only run a few games yet." Another good data point to compare with the Coleco Chameleon that is such a close implementation of a SNES that it effortlessly runs new cartridges first time. If indeed it takes a $600 FPGA to accurately emulate the SNES, then there is no way in hell the Team RetroVGS Coleco Chameleon will be able to pull this off with a $150 MSRP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaperman Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) So, what's the endgame here? How's it really going to play out? It seems like we might be reaching the end of the tracks. So far, outside of a number of the internet's retrogaming communities, a good chunk of press is pretty much regurgitating the RVGS official line for now, even if the 'smell test' isn't fully passed. So the bluff is kind of working, but the does anybody really think that will last? The chameleon crew seem to be holding a pair of two's, and the rest of the table could easily see their cards with minimal effort. The press likes clicks, and drama generates them. Even if the 'hitting the fan' aspect is delayed until the kickstarter is successfully funded (best case scenario)--then what? IMO, about 10 times more of the brown stuff starts slowly heading toward an even bigger fan. Seems like MK's 'all in' in terms of community, maybe financially too, and I just kind of wonder how this could possibly turn out 'okay' at this point. When I imagine what the receiving end of this fallout could feel like, it brings me down a bit. Everybody involved has got to have realized that this isn't even where bad game systems come from, much less good ones, and it can't be a good feeling moving forward in spite of it all. I'm guessing that maybe for financial reasons, this project 'has' to work out--not much else makes sense to me. Anyway, the postman bought me an oriental blue fan translation today--and I'd rather stop thinking about this for a bit and play a game or two. Edited February 17, 2016 by Reaperman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Piko was hinting that no ARM emulator supports his custom mapper for the menu .... so that's why I asked, but you seem to suggest that hurdle has been long overcome in the SW emu land. Where's keatah, he will know for sure. Retro Freak and Retron5 ARM emulators both run Piko's 4-in-1 homebrew multicart in emulation. I also successfully dumped the boot menu with a Retrode, but selecting a game just reset the boot menu ad infinitum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaNaix Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Retro Freak and Retron5 ARM emulators both run Piko's 4-in-1 homebrew multicart in emulation. I also successfully dumped the boot menu with a Retrode, but selecting a game just reset the boot menu ad infinitum. Ding! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmer Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) If indeed it takes a $600 FPGA to accurately emulate the SNES, then there is no way in hell the Team RetroVGS Coleco Chameleon will be able to pull this off with a $150 MSRP. Jeez ... I posted this a few pages ago, but I guess that's too far back in time for people to remember. The guy's only using approx 29000LE on the DE2-115 ... approx 1/3 of the space on the chip. The DE1 only had 20000LE, and the chip was 2 generations older and less capable, that's why he had to switch to the bigger board. You can buy a 50000LE Cyclone 5 chip for $50 (but you'll still need all the other logic ... like some memory to simulate the cartridge (or just use an actual cartridge). The 512KB of block RAM inside the Cyclone 5 chip is plenty big enough for the 128KB SNES CPU RAM and the 64KB SNES PPU RAM. BTW ... the DE2-115 is $310 academic price, and can occasionally be found for around that price on eBay ... that's where mine came from. P.S. Don't think that anything that I've just said means that I think that Mike has the knowledge or capability to pull that off, or that I think that the Chameleon "design" will be anything other than a cheap Chinese ARM SoC with minimal-if-any FPGA. Edited February 17, 2016 by elmer 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I do agree to the Mentally Challenged part. Totally. Here's pictures, here's info. OH I STILL WANT ONE!!! .. good luck to ya! Please stop. Joking about mental or psychological disabilities is not funny. Several people on this forum including myself have issues. I have severe Adult ADHD which believe it or not, video games actually help me cope with. Some other forum members may also have Aspergers, OCD, or other conditions. Accusing Mike Kennedy or anyone else involved in this project of having a disorder or handicap without any evidence is libel, and could get either the poster or Albert in hot legal waters. Also, I'm only going to say this once. I know some of you feel strongly with regards to how Mike and company are handling themselves. You are free to express your opinions and facts on the subject, but I ask that you do so respectfully. Stating, "I decided I'll make Mike Kennedy's life hell, because in My Religion killing Mike Kennedy will save all the children in Africa", even in jest, goes over the line. Besides being unnecessarily mean-spirited, it is easily taken out of context, and not everyone will understand the attempt at humor. We're talking about video game consoles here, so let's try to keep this discussion in context. Thank you, ..Al This Public Service announcement brought to you by Kosmic Stardust. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikoInteractive Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Retro Freak and Retron5 ARM emulators both run Piko's 4-in-1 homebrew multicart in emulation. I also successfully dumped the boot menu with a Retrode, but selecting a game just reset the boot menu ad infinitum. Yup I told them how to get support. (cough, NO$SNS) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaNaix Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Yup I told them how to get support. (cough, NO$SNS) I don't know about the RetroFreak but, last I heard, the Retron5 was using Libretro's SNES9x Next core. They weren't even smart enough to use BSNES/Higan, which would have been more accurate. I should also point out that both consoles used Libretro/RetroArch without permission and the author(s) were, shall we say, less than thrilled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikoInteractive Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 I don't know about the RetroFreak but, last I heard, the Retron5 was using Libretro's SNES9x Next core. They weren't even smart enough to use BSNES/Higan, which would have been more accurate. I should also point out that both consoles used Libretro/RetroArch without permission and the author(s) were, shall we say, less than thrilled. We are about to license higan actually, would be a good idea for other copanies to do it too; there are similarities Retrofreak VS Retron 5 for a reason 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 We are about to license higan actually, would be a good idea for other copanies to do it too; there are similarities Retrofreak VS Retron 5 for a reason Why are you licensing it? For what purpose? Are you building your own retro-console? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andromeda Stardust Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 We are about to license higan actually, would be a good idea for other copanies to do it too; there are similarities Retrofreak VS Retron 5 for a reason Why are you licensing it? For what purpose? Are you building your own retro-console? Sounds exciting! We are living in good times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PikoInteractive Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Why are you licensing it? For what purpose? Are you building your own retro-console? Although we could; is mainly to release our games on PC. We had permission from Jeremy and Gary from Snes9x to use an older version of their emulator. Besides having a lot of problems with it; then some collaborators said their code was in there (although we took off all the special chips etc) better to go with a much stable emulator with a single author. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chorne27983 Posted February 17, 2016 Share Posted February 17, 2016 Although we could; is mainly to release our games on PC. We had permission from Jeremy and Gary from Snes9x to use an older version of their emulator. Besides having a lot of problems with it; then some collaborators said their code was in there (although we took off all the special chips etc) better to go with a much stable emulator with a single author. So you are going to release on steam finally? Hopefully you use a script to hide the emulator on launch. Higan has the shittiest gui I have ever used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted February 17, 2016 Author Share Posted February 17, 2016 (edited) Although we could; is mainly to release our games on PC. We had permission from Jeremy and Gary from Snes9x to use an older version of their emulator. Besides having a lot of problems with it; then some collaborators said their code was in there (although we took off all the special chips etc) better to go with a much stable emulator with a single author. Nice, I believe byuu deserves some cash after 10Y of outstanding development. A pity the "accuracy" profile requires so much CPU power, but for a lot of games luckily "compatibility" profile is the sweet spot. My little rig to run Doom decently requires "performance" profile but that's because it uses a low power i5 (not that I care to play Doom on SNES anyway). Anyhow great to know. And thanks a ton to keep on posting your opinions, news, impressions on this thread!!! I'm pretty sure we all appreciate it. Edited February 17, 2016 by phoenixdownita 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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