Coleco Chameleon .... hardware speculations?

[phoenixdownita]

According to our interview with Eli that was Lee in the Goldeneye room at the company with lawyers and showers.

So that would mean lawyers are in on the fiasco?

And forgive me but what company? Lee's company? Mike's company? Another new company?

 

At any rate I am not sure what lawyer would seek to be disbarred by even "being present" to something like that.

[who's "showers"?]

[Keatah]

Cartridges with buttons and controls. They should make games with such things..

[Dissident Aggressor]

 

 

"What purpose the PCI card served?"

 

Um... its purpose was to FOOL people. Wow. That was easy.

 

If Coleco honestly doesn't know that, it's not hard to see how Mike strung them along this far.

 

I think they know that. The reason they pose the question is that there's no correct answer.

[Thomas Jentzsch]

How about a new thread where we collection potential excuses for Mike? Winner is who comes up with the correct excuse.

 

Like: "This is just an example picture, which should indicate that we wanted to work fully transparent in the future. So the PCI card was just meant to be a stand in for the final board."

Edited March 5, 2016 by Thomas Jentzsch

[phoenixdownita]

...

Like: "This is just an example picture, which should indicate that we wanted to work fully transparent in the future. So the PCI card was just meant to be a stand in for the final board."

But he would need to explain what's on TV then? Would he not?

And why there's a bright lit red led in it (in the wrong position) .... what's that standing in for?

 

I don't think there's any plausible excuse for any of that .... but then again I didn't think the then next-proto was a CaptureCard so what do I know?

This saga seems to be having the power for some more surreal phases .... that's why it is so polarizing.

 

 

EDIT: and by the way when companies advertise something that is not exactly the product named in the same advertisement or situation in which it is portrayed they have to state it.

Things like "actor portrayal", "paid performance", "not actual size", "stock photo", "additional option shown", "model ABC shown", "cars don't run underwater", "image shown not representative of actual item" ..... there's a reason for that!!!!

[Thomas Jentzsch]

Who said it has to be plausible? That wouldn't fit.

 

We had a politician here, who typed in "Yes" to a question (shooting at refugees (women and children)?). Later her excuse was that she slipped of the mouse.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Thomas Jentzsch

[phoenixdownita]

Who said it has to be plausible? That wouldn't fit.

In that case The Blues Brothers movie seem to have one fitting:

 

 

Mystery Woman: You miserable slug! You think you can talk your way out of this? You betrayed me.

 

Jake: No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts! IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD!

[PikoInteractive]

Listened to the Piko interview on Retro Gaming Roundup:

Some of the details about the Eli's interaction with Lee don't make much sense.

 

1) If Lee was merely an independent contractor (or an employee of a big contracting firm depending on which version you believe) why would he be acting as an agent of the CC on behalf of Mike Kennedy and trying to persuade Piko to stick with the project? That is not his job and didn't make sense.

 

2) Why is Lee sharing all this non-relevant information with Eli about how wonderful his engineering firm is? Out of the blue? Did it come up organically in the conversation? Was it relevant to questions or comments Eli had made?

 

(Honestly I had a hard time following how the conversation between Lee and Eli developed, due in part to the disjointed way Eli retold it. I could tell that the Retro gaming roundup interviewers were having difficulty following him too when they asked for clarification on what he meant by "he kept saying he was part of a company".)

 

3) Eli theorized that the deceitfulness was perpetrated by Lee, and that Mike Kennedy may have been unknowingly duped, at least in regard to Toy Fair. I don't see how that could possibly be accurate based on how the CC team has handled everything subsequently. If they were the victim of some terrible engineering firm scamming them, they wouldn't have tried to take down facebook photos, coverup what had happened, and maintain radio silence... they would have been just as outraged as anyone and taking legal action.

 

 

Honestly it doesn't make sense to me either. He would call every day about random things. The Menu, tell me about the prototype, that they had a test unit for me. Also every time I posted something here, he would call me to question why I did that.

 

In every call the conversation would derail for 30 minutes about his company and, every time he would give the opinion about this project, he would tell me "this is a personal opinion, not my employers".

 

I think he told me all this stuff about a company and what not, to believe them they had an actual prototype, and be white knighting them on the web like other people and organizations involved had done.

 

The built up may not have been much on the RGR, but at the end I thought it was sooo funny that Mike himself discovered this guy, and confirmed all the things I had stayed neutral and gave them the benefit of the doubt to be lies.

 

It could be that Mike and him were in the same boat about lying, and Mike threw him under the bus infront of me to think that Lee was the one that made all these fake protos. It could be the Mike was doped.

 

But That is what happened, that is what I experienced and the truth.

 

Sorry you have a hard time to follow the story, and sorry the story I told is not up to your standards; is hard to remember everything, I am sure there are details I forgot to mention etc. Also, English is my second language, so usually that happens when you are bilingual.

Edited March 5, 2016 by PikoInteractive

[Flojomojo]

So that would mean lawyers are in on the fiasco?

And forgive me but what company? Lee's company? Mike's company? Another new company?

 

At any rate I am not sure what lawyer would seek to be disbarred by even "being present" to something like that.

[who's "showers"?]

You have to listen to RGR (Pipercub and UKMike)'s interview with Eli from Pico Interactive. It's long but totally worth it. You've wasted time on far dumber things in this thread. I don't usually care for long form gab fests but this is the right medium to get the story.

 

http://www.retrogamingroundup.com/shownotes/2016/roundup099_2016.03.php

 

You might even think differently about Mike after this.

 

I still think he's a dreamer, but he's also a patsy. Listen!

[phoenixdownita]

....

 

I still think he's a dreamer, but he's also a patsy. Listen!

So do you think all of his swapping IPs under the hood among shell companies to "stick it" to his pals is a result of being "patsy"?

 

I'm sorry once someone starts creating layers of companies to be able to shift possible profits and IPs in an attempt to cut off his friends and collaborators I stop thinking "he's just naive".

I don't care if Mike eats crayons, plays with his poop and drools on his bib, he's skilled enough to attempt to shift "potential" assets and money so he controls who are the designated beneficiaries.

 

Or maybe also Pipercub and UKMike are in on it painting Mike as the perpetrator of the "IP transfers" while instead even in that instance "he's just a simpleton trying to make ends meet".

[retroillucid]

The RetroVGS / Chameleon story from CollectorVision point of view

 

The first time I heard about the RetroVGS was in spring 2015 when we were told by Mike Kennedy about his new retro console project

 

After some talks, Mike told us he would be very interested to have Tiny Knight as a pack-in game for the RetroVGS (wich included a 1-year platform exclusive)

In this case, CollectorVision Games would receive royalties on all RetroVGS unit sold

He also stated he wanted CollectorVision as one of the many developers

 

 

In August 2015, we all met each others ( including John Carlsen, a great guy btw) at the Game on Expo in Arizona

At this point, Mike told us everything would be ready to lauch a Kickstarter campaign next fall

They were aiming $150 as target price for the System

To be honest, on paper, everything was looking just fine .....( I was yet going to be proven wrong....)

 

October 2015

 

Just before the RetroVGS Indiegogo campaign, Mike told us he was not able to give what was decided at first (in terms of royalties)

In fact, we were going to get 50% of what was previously stated

Needless to say, we were pissed.....but not as much as when we saw what they were going to ask for their Indiegogo campaign

 

Very few days later, the project was quickly abandoned ....

At this point, we were "free" from this project (besides a NDA)

 

January 2016

 

I got a message on Facebook from John (Lester) telling me Mike was now finally ready to launch his retro console, but was now named: Chameleon

I was like.....ok....I guess? ....

 

Oh, and Coleco step aboard and give their blessing so they can use the name Coleco (Chameleon)

I thoughts that if Coleco (aka River West Brand) liscenced their Coleco name, maybe the project will be taken more seriously this time.....

 

Mike wanted us to make Tiny Knight again

This time, I was against the idea since I want to make this game first on SNES and then on modern platforms only

Besides, this was impossible for us to complete this game in time for the end of 2016

 

So, since we are about to release Sydney Hunter & The Caverns of Death on the SNES, it would have been easy to use this one for the release of the Chameleon as a pack-in game (they were going to use a FPGA SNES)

 

Deal is set, we are waiting for the contract so we can sign it (wich never came btw)

Wich only proof how far we really were from this

 

 

February 2016 - Toy Fair in NY

 

The night before the Toy Fair, Mike sent CollectorVision a picture of Sydney Hunter running on the Chameleon (as posted on our Facebook page)

Was kind of relief to finally see something actually working....

 

The next day, where Mike "demoed" the Chameleon, pictures were taken of the system and put online

This's where people started saying it was a SNES Mini inside a Jaguar shell

 

I immediately contacted John and ask him if Mike could provide us pictures of the inside of the system etc....

Instead, we were re-directed to his hardware guy

The hardware guy told us what he used to built this prototype and yes it was using some SNES parts and the reason they were showing this "SNES Prototype" was because they didn't get the latest board revision in time.....

 

Okay.... shit could happen, I guess.....? ..... But still......suspicious......

So they told us to wait till the Kickstarter and we are going to be blow away by the latest prototype

This is where I've mentioned online to wait till the Kickstarter and it's going to be awesome (stupid me, I should just have shut the f&$@ up!)

 

Meanwhile, we got informed that we will NO longer be the pack-in game as they found another (popular) company to do it instead of us

Now, I wanted more than ever to get the f@&$ out of this project....

Was it true? Or Mike simply tried once again to lower the royalties?

All we know is we didn't still signed any contracts yet, so......

 

Few days later, Mike posted pictures of "their latest prototype", but this time in a clear case so everyone can see the inside.....

Harvey (5-11under) and Albert on AtariAge both find what the prototype board actually was.... A video capture card!!

I immediately contacted John and Toby and told them to officially pull the plug off this and make a statement about this

I was not pissed, I was over pissed off!

 

In the end, we (CollectorVision) were fools enough to have believed in this project, so yes, we have been stupid on this :/

The obvious was actually too obvious for us to not believe in the project

The most thing we are guilty for, is maybe not having followed their project more closely, as we were (still) busy working on our Wii U game

 

We've certainly learned for all this....

 

Peace, out

 

J-F

[PlaysWithWolves]

So do you think all of his swapping IPs under the hood among shell companies to "stick it" to his pals is a result of being "patsy"?

 

 

I think it's possible to be a dreamer, patsy and scammer all at once.

On the flip side, dude's gotten so many mulligans that the PGA is considering renaming them "Kennedys".

[goldenegg]

I immediately contacted John and Toby and told them to officially pull the plug off this and make a statement about this

 

 

 

Thanks for posting your experience with Mike and his team.

 

Just wondering why an official statement wasn't released sooner. Remaining fairly quiet on the situation escalated to Gamester81 getting called out by the community and he in turn made things worse with the video he posted. While it's understood that not everything John does is connected to CollectorVision, I feel the video does reflect poorly on your company.

[phoenixdownita]

I think it's possible to be a dreamer, patsy and scammer all at once.

On the flip side, dude's gotten so many mulligans that the PGA is considering renaming them "Kennedys".

mmmhhh, maybe.

 

I can think of a simpler answer instead, and one that is contained on the very same quote I keep on re-quoting [from the very first post in this thread] to remind everyone that this did not begin in the last 10 days or so.

 

Hello Everyone.

 

It is the end of a very tumultuous year for me and in the spirit of Christmas and the holidays I wanted to come in here and ask those of you who will listen to let the past be the past as it relates to this (ad)venture. RETRO VGS is the past and COLECO Chameleon is the future. The Chameleon is not just a rebranded Retro VGS. Despite sharing some of the same internal components the hardware has been completely redesigned to lower the cost while maintaining much of its ability to play a wide variety of games in a variety of ways. To boil this all down to its essence we just want to produce a product that is different, affordable and will bring joy to peoples lives. The market will ultimately decide if we are crazy enough to believe a cartridge console can stand its ground in this age of digital delivery. There are clearly lots of people on both sides of this fence and ultimately it will all come down to the games that can be played and if they are compelling enough to vie for peoples hard earned money.

 

The COLECO branding was a business decision I made to bring instant brand recognition to the Chameleon. But I did not enter into this licensing agreement lightly, knowing that if done so, we have a lot to live up to. COLECO made some very influential, high quality and fun video gaming and electronic products during their time and we will try endlessly to carry on that tradition with the Chameleon. The recognition of having the COLECO logo on the system and the (game and console) boxes will make the Chameleon immediately identifiable by millions of people right from the beginning. In the end this is a good thing for all involved including us, our customers, our suppliers and distributors, our contract manufactures, potential retailers and probably most importantly to game developers. Mark and Chris at River West/Coleco Holdings are also very behind this product and will be helping out in a variety of ways, beginning by inviting us into their booth at Toy Fair which is where they want to officially begin rebuilding this brand in more concrete ways.

 

We know we have a mountain to climb and are prepared to do what it takes to plant a flag at the top. I will once again apologize to all of you for at times dissing some individuals and this community but it was hard being criticized by a group of my Atari and classic game lovin peers. I let it get to me on occasion and I do regret all of it. I am aware that we gave you all plenty to poke fun at and criticize but in the end, I believe the product will be much better for going through all of this. In my mind, the best way for me to apologize once and for all is to ultimately create a game system that will make most of you turn a 180 and win over your support and positive influence. And given the chance that is what I will do.

 

All I ask is moving forward into the New Year is you try and give the Chameleon a fair chance to stand on its own, and again forget about the past. Let it speak for itself when we reveal it to you all early this New Year. And finally, lets respect one another and our opinions (some advice I am directing towards myself) and that goes for both believers and non-believers of what we are trying to do. In the end, we all love and are passionate about video games and sometimes this passion causes us to do uncharacteristic things.

 

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and I hope you all have a very Happy New Year!

 

- Mike

Hone in on it.

The recognition of having the COLECO logo on the system and the (game and console) boxes will make the Chameleon immediately identifiable by millions of people right from the beginning.

A little closer.

... millions ...

Closer.

 

... $$$ ...

... $$$ ...

... $$$ ...

Bingo.

 

Dreamer or not he likely got a glimpse that he'll be rich doing what he believes he loves and what he believes he's good at.

There's no fault in that but the way you go about it does make a difference.

 

Maybe the real mastermind is one of the other 6 of the team .... who knows, for sure none of them wrote the quote I so aptly "twisted" to make my point.

[G-type]

 

Sorry you have a hard time to follow the story, and sorry the story I told is not up to your standards; is hard to remember everything, I am sure there are details I forgot to mention etc. Also, English is my second language, so usually that happens when you are bilingual.

 

I didn't intend for my comment to be taken as a critique on your language skills. (What I meant was how you would go onto different tangents and then say "I'll get back to that part later" and it was hard to keep track.) I was genuinely just interested in understanding the story. I apologize if I offended you.

[phoenixdownita]

...

I feel the video does reflect poorly on your company.

I feel it reflects poorly on Gamester81 rather than the company, the reason being there's more than one voice (J-F) and that means the brain is working and you have multiple sources to pinpoint whodunit. G81 seems not to want to admit he poorly choose to lend his platform to a project he had a vested interest in and not stating it clearly. J-F candidly admitted he's been taken for a spin, money was involved and they took the bait ... nothing more than that.

[Raticon]

The RetroVGS / Chameleon story from CollectorVision point of view

 

 

Thank you so much. I think its very bad of MK to change around your royalties like that and then to suddenly drop you out.

 

So disorganized and chaotic... Did he honestly know what he wanted or how he wanted it done at all besides whatever was made it was gonna be in a Jag shell?

[retroillucid]

Thanks for posting your experience with Mike and his team.

 

Just wondering why an official statement wasn't released sooner. Remaining fairly quiet on the situation escalated to Gamester81 getting called out by the community and he in turn made things worse with the video he posted. While it's understood that not everything John does is connected to CollectorVision, I feel the video does reflect poorly on your company.

To be honest?

 

We didn't care that much about the VGS/Chameleon

Like I said, we're already more than busy working on modern platforms games

We should have care much though, really....

I tried more than one time to get out of this project, but I was not alone to take this kind of decision......

 

Now as for John (Lester) the night before he pos his "rant video" , I told him to take a fresh breath of air and relax

I never think Pat the NES Punk called out John or even CollectorVision (wich I explained to John)

I'm cool with Pat by the way , Met him last year in Arizona and he was cool dude

I think John's is going to contact Pat directly (wich should have been done in the first place)

 

 

Let me know guys if there's anything else I should/could answer

 

 

Cheers

 

J-F

[retroillucid]

Thank you so much. I think its very bad of MK to change around your royalties like that and then to suddenly drop you out.

So disorganized and chaotic... Did he honestly know what he wanted or how he wanted it done at all besides whatever was made it was gonna be in a Jag shell?

Mike is probably the only guy who knows

It must be part of his brain fart

[Mord]

How about a new thread where we collection potential excuses for Mike? Winner is who comes up with the correct excuse.

 

Like: "This is just an example picture, which should indicate that we wanted to work fully transparent in the future. So the PCI card was just meant to be a stand in for the final board."

 

All someone has to do to win would probably be to submit "All of the above".

[goldenegg]

I feel it reflects poorly on Gamester81 rather than the company, the reason being there's more than one voice (J-F) and that means the brain is working and you have multiple sources to pinpoint whodunit. G81 seems not to want to admit he poorly choose to lend his platform to a project he had a vested interest in and not stating it clearly. J-F candidly admitted he's been taken for a spin, money was involved and they took the bait ... nothing more than that.

 

 

The problem is that J-F's visibility begins and ends (for the most part) at AtariAge. John is the face of the company externally and even talks about CollectorVision as his company (he specifically calls out that he's co-owner of CollectorVision in his video).

[goldenegg]

Now as for John (Lester) the night before he pos his "rant video" , I told him to take a fresh breath of air and relax

I never think Pat the NES Punk called out John or even CollectorVision (wich I explained to John)

I'm cool with Pat by the way , Met him last year in Arizona and he was cool dude

I think John's is going to contact Pat directly (wich should have been done in the first place)

 

I really wish he had listened to you and hopefully he'll make a new video to clear the air after his conversation with Pat.

[jaybird3rd]

David Giltinan has announced his departure from RETRO Magazine and the Coleco Chameleon project. Here is his statement:

After 3 long years, it's sad for me to say that I have officially stepped down from RETRO Magazine. It's not a big shocker to admit that everything going on with the #ColecoChameleon is a major reason why I have to separate myself from everything associated with it.

I am not aiming to throw anyone under the bus for why things went south with the project. The blame is shared by all on the team, including myself. With that, I apologize for any ignorance on my part for not fully following through with my desire for the truth when speaking about the console. Instead I allowed myself to become a vessel for misinformation, and for that I am again sorry.

Those of you who believe we were simply trying to scam consumers or take advantage of the retro gaming community don't know the whole picture. There was no ill intent or maliciousness on the part of the team. All we had in mind was to make a modern day retro-inspired console, nothing more and nothing less. I won't go into specifics as to what went wrong (especially since none of us know the full story yet), although I will apologize on behalf of the team for the poor messaging of the product and the way we handled interacting with the community.

Issue 11 of the magazine will be the last of my contributions. I wish Mike Kennedy, David Craddock, and the rest of the RETRO team the best of luck as they look to move forward without me as Managing Editor of RETRO Magazine and host of the Talk RETRO podcast. I have not decided yet exactly what I will be doing next after this, but there are some avenues open to me now which I wish to pursue. For now, a much needed break from gaming-related drama is in order. Take care.

[tomsa34]

The RetroVGS / Chameleon story from CollectorVision point of view

 

The first time I heard about the RetroVGS was in spring 2015 when we were told by Mike Kennedy about his new retro console project

 

After some talks, Mike told us he would be very interested to have Tiny Knight as a pack-in game for the RetroVGS (wich included a 1-year platform exclusive)

In this case, CollectorVision Games would receive royalties on all RetroVGS unit sold

He also stated he wanted CollectorVision as one of the many developers

 

 

In August 2015, we all met each others ( including John Carlsen, a great guy btw) at the Game on Expo in Arizona

At this point, Mike told us everything would be ready to lauch a Kickstarter campaign next fall

They were aiming $150 as target price for the System

To be honest, on paper, everything was looking just fine .....( I was yet going to be proven wrong....)

 

October 2015

 

Just before the RetroVGS Indiegogo campaign, Mike told us he was not able to give what was decided at first (in terms of royalties)

In fact, we were going to get 50% of what was previously stated

Needless to say, we were pissed.....but not as much as when we saw what they were going to ask for their Indiegogo campaign

 

Very few days later, the project was quickly abandoned ....

At this point, we were "free" from this project (besides a NDA)

 

January 2016

 

I got a message on Facebook from John (Lester) telling me Mike was now finally ready to launch his retro console, but was now named: Chameleon

I was like.....ok....I guess? ....

 

Oh, and Coleco step aboard and give their blessing so they can use the name Coleco (Chameleon)

I thoughts that if Coleco (aka River West Brand) liscenced their Coleco name, maybe the project will be taken more seriously this time.....

 

Mike wanted us to make Tiny Knight again

This time, I was against the idea since I want to make this game first on SNES and then on modern platforms only

Besides, this was impossible for us to complete this game in time for the end of 2016

 

So, since we are about to release Sydney Hunter & The Caverns of Death on the SNES, it would have been easy to use this one for the release of the Chameleon as a pack-in game (they were going to use a FPGA SNES)

 

Deal is set, we are waiting for the contract so we can sign it (wich never came btw)

Wich only proof how far we really were from this

 

 

February 2016 - Toy Fair in NY

 

The night before the Toy Fair, Mike sent CollectorVision a picture of Sydney Hunter running on the Chameleon (as posted on our Facebook page)

Was kind of relief to finally see something actually working....

 

The next day, where Mike "demoed" the Chameleon, pictures were taken of the system and put online

This's where people started saying it was a SNES Mini inside a Jaguar shell

 

I immediately contacted John and ask him if Mike could provide us pictures of the inside of the system etc....

Instead, we were re-directed to his hardware guy

The hardware guy told us what he used to built this prototype and yes it was using some SNES parts and the reason they were showing this "SNES Prototype" was because they didn't get the latest board revision in time.....

 

Okay.... shit could happen, I guess.....? ..... But still......suspicious......

So they told us to wait till the Kickstarter and we are going to be blow away by the latest prototype

This is where I've mentioned online to wait till the Kickstarter and it's going to be awesome (stupid me, I should just have shut the f&$@ up!)

 

Meanwhile, we got informed that we will NO longer be the pack-in game as they found another (popular) company to do it instead of us

Now, I wanted more than ever to get the f@&$ out of this project....

Was it true? Or Mike simply tried once again to lower the royalties?

All we know is we didn't still signed any contracts yet, so......

 

Few days later, Mike posted pictures of "their latest prototype", but this time in a clear case so everyone can see the inside.....

Harvey (5-11under) and Albert on AtariAge both find what the prototype board actually was.... A video capture card!!

I immediately contacted John and Toby and told them to officially pull the plug off this and make a statement about this

I was not pissed, I was over pissed off!

 

In the end, we (CollectorVision) were fools enough to have believed in this project, so yes, we have been stupid on this :/

The obvious was actually too obvious for us to not believe in the project

The most thing we are guilty for, is maybe not having followed their project more closely, as we were (still) busy working on our Wii U game

 

We've certainly learned for all this....

 

Peace, out

 

J-F

Okay that's fair enough, but can I ask you something? Do you ( everyone at CV games john included) think that MAYBE all the videos in promotion of the cham/vgs were just a LITTLE bit over the top? And do you think that it would have been more fair to retract sooner, and explain things in there entirity as soon you started to smell shit?

These questions are without sarcasm or malice, as I said I truely your attempts at apologizing/explaining and hold no I'll will. However, gamesters video left me a bit flabbergasted by the way he said things, I also understand that is beyond your control.

So again thank you for the explanation and I do hope tiny knight makes it to Wii u . you guys do a good job and hope this mess doesn't cause you guys trouble moving forward. As for gamester81 , personally I no longer plan to support him, but quietly and without further animosity.

I also want to apologize for the furious way I attacked CV games, it was not warranted and unfair to hold one of your employees actions against you all. Best of luck to you, get those Wii u ports going!

[retroillucid]

I really wish he had listened to you and hopefully he'll make a new video to clear the air after his conversation with Pat.

John is a great guy, I'm sure he's going to phone Pat and clear things

At least, that's really what I'm hoping