catsfolly Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Here's my two cents…I like the IDEA of a new 2D console. If someone put say, a Raspberry Pi 2 in a box with some nice controllers and a nice 2D api and a convenient format for games (I don't care if it's a cartridge or not, although cartridges are easy to manage) that would be fine with me. If such a box were build and was cheap enough to sell a few hundred or so, it would be fun to write games on and see what could be done with a fast modern 2D style console…But, it's never going to happen. Because of EMULATION. Anytime someone makes such a machine, it gets quickly filled up with emulators, and all people do on it is fool around with emulators and run emulators, and there is no interest in new or original games….The Coleco Chameleon seems to be ALL about emulation. I see no hint of any "Native" mode to program for. So this machine (if it ever ships) will probably have 1 or more faster than 1 ghz ARM processors on it, but if I want to write a game for it I will have to write programs for the 250 times slower SNES processor (a 4 mhz 65816 (essentially a stretch 6502)) . Why!!?The coolest machine to come out in the last few years (IMHO) is the GameBuino. The greatest thing about the Gamebuino is that it has a super low res monochrome screen, so it can't emulate anything. Over 1000 have been sold, so people make quirkly little original (or sometimes not so original) games for it. It has a 16 mhz processor with floating point, so there is more than enough processing power to fill the low res display with sprites and special effects. Games have to fit in the processor's 30 k memory, but new data can be streamed off the build in SD card. It's like a "new-old" system - reminiscent of old systems, but a unique combination of features that leads to new and different games...That is what I would like to see…. Catsfolly 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janus Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Prepare to get schooled haters! Daniel Kayser is a long-standing authority on video game systems... 'nuff said!http://readretro.com/features/talk-retro-24/ Just wait until this Kickstarter breaks the internet tomorrow and Mike and Co. are RAKING in the cash! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 If someone put say, a Raspberry Pi 2 in a box with some nice controllers and a nice 2D api and a convenient format for games (I don't care if it's a cartridge or not, although cartridges are easy to manage) that would be fine with me. So.... something like this? http://retropi.de/ Yes there's a lot of emulation but it does run its own games as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Nice! I'm watching the CU Podcast right now! I also uploaded my new video a few minutes ago. Nice coverage. $3 per transaction and per person is crazy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenegg Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Prepare to get schooled haters! Daniel Kayser is a long-standing authority on video game systems... 'nuff said! http://readretro.com/features/talk-retro-24/ Just wait until this Kickstarter breaks the internet tomorrow and Mike and Co. are RAKING in the cash! LOL 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Loguidice Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Here's my two cents… I like the IDEA of a new 2D console. If someone put say, a Raspberry Pi 2 in a box with some nice controllers and a nice 2D api and a convenient format for games (I don't care if it's a cartridge or not, although cartridges are easy to manage) that would be fine with me. If such a box were build and was cheap enough to sell a few hundred or so, it would be fun to write games on and see what could be done with a fast modern 2D style console… But, it's never going to happen. Because of EMULATION. Anytime someone makes such a machine, it gets quickly filled up with emulators, and all people do on it is fool around with emulators and run emulators, and there is no interest in new or original games…. <snip> It's like a "new-old" system - reminiscent of old systems, but a unique combination of features that leads to new and different games... That is what I would like to see…. Catsfolly I haven't given this much thought, but for now, my thinking is new systems like this are unnecessary. We already have a way for programmers of any and all skill levels to make PC games, and there are a growing number of easier-to-use programming languages for various classic systems. As you say, there's straight up emulation on any possible device and form factor you could imagine, as well as legitimate semi-mainstream new creations like the Retro Freak and RetroN 5 that take care of the cartridge issue (and in the Retro Freak's case, also the ROM issue). In other words, in theory, we already have all the systems, all the access, and all the creative power we could ever possibly need to meet any creative goal that doesn't require a team of dozens (or hundreds). So again, without giving it much thought, perhaps the most logical path instead of creating yet another new console that is locked down to playing its own games would be inventing an easy way for the average person to create cartridge games for existing classic systems. For instance, let's say a relatively inexpensive, reprogrammable (with the option to lock it down to read only) cartridge board that worked on the Genesis and fit in standard Genesis-style shells (that could then be mass produced by someone) was available. Skilled programmers could create games using their existing software stack, while less skilled programmers could use something like a more evolved BasiEgaXorz. This way creative energy could be focused on that and since there are already more than a dozen types of systems to play it on, including clones of every type, there's no shortage of potential consumers. To put it another way, there's no danger of the hardware to play these on ever going away or not working (one of the goals of the Retro VGS), while still having a physical item (the cartridge) that will also last (another goal of the Retro VGS). I guess that's just an overly long way of saying yet again that this whole thing is a solution in search of a non-existent problem. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newsdee Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 New carts are already happening for the NeoGeo, but man are those new games pricey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakpack Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Here's my two cents… I like the IDEA of a new 2D console. If someone put say, a Raspberry Pi 2 in a box with some nice controllers and a nice 2D api and a convenient format for games (I don't care if it's a cartridge or not, although cartridges are easy to manage) that would be fine with me. If such a box were build and was cheap enough to sell a few hundred or so, it would be fun to write games on and see what could be done with a fast modern 2D style console… But, it's never going to happen. Because of EMULATION. Anytime someone makes such a machine, it gets quickly filled up with emulators, and all people do on it is fool around with emulators and run emulators, and there is no interest in new or original games…. The Coleco Chameleon seems to be ALL about emulation. I see no hint of any "Native" mode to program for. So this machine (if it ever ships) will probably have 1 or more faster than 1 ghz ARM processors on it, but if I want to write a game for it I will have to write programs for the 250 times slower SNES processor (a 4 mhz 65816 (essentially a stretch 6502)) . Why!!? The coolest machine to come out in the last few years (IMHO) is the GameBuino. The greatest thing about the Gamebuino is that it has a super low res monochrome screen, so it can't emulate anything. Over 1000 have been sold, so people make quirkly little original (or sometimes not so original) games for it. It has a 16 mhz processor with floating point, so there is more than enough processing power to fill the low res display with sprites and special effects. Games have to fit in the processor's 30 k memory, but new data can be streamed off the build in SD card. It's like a "new-old" system - reminiscent of old systems, but a unique combination of features that leads to new and different games... That is what I would like to see…. Catsfolly I was just thinking about this yesterday. I love my Raspberry Pi for emulation it's an amazing machine for that, but there are also ports aswell. I mean there is Cave Story, doom and quake. I was thinking to myself the potential of just making a game for the Raspberry is there. It would have to be an online purchase of course. I like the idea, it's a good inexpensive machine to do it with. That in itself makes it a better platform than the Coleco Chameleon. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imstarryeyed Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 This is just my opinion and I wanted to share it, I am in no way trying to inflame anyone here on this board, I really do respect everyone's opinion here. I have been following this saga for some time now, ever since the Retro version. I am actually looking forward to seeing how this is going to turn out due to this environment, its very interesting. I originally was quite interested in this console, but the more I heard about it, the more suspicious I became. However, having said that there is a point / observation I wanted to make. I have worked in the video game industry for around 8 years before opening my classic game store back in 2007. I used to work for Sony and for IGN GameSpy. Here is an observation I have made while attending E3's over the years, GDC's, and developer symposiums.. It is not all that unprecedented for a video game company to use hardware other than theirs during development. Sony utilized a big "pyramid" hiding its contents at E3 with only a controller wire coming out of it showing off the PS2 before it was still early in development. In reality it was just a PC people were playing on. It wasn't until the next E3 did people actually see the hardware. In Coleco chameleon case, it really looks like they used a mini SNES.. and it appears that Mike is saying they made changes to the board and cannot show it. All of that is may or may not be true, but my point is that this practice of using other hardware is not all that unusual. Would people have felt better if they were using a PC? I watched those videos of those guys on mics bashing the console for a bunch of valid reasons I can agree with. They made one point however that I wanted to discuss and that the chameleon is only supposed to come with a few games per cart... as opposed to what? The entire library? I am not sure this personally makes sense to me. I don't remember my friends telling me their Xbox One or Playstation 4 came with any games, much less 6 to 15. Would l like more games to come with the Coleco? Sure, I would love the entire library, but I realize that may not be feasible for a litany of reasons. As far as I am concerned I am going to wait to see the final version (if there is one) before I throw any stones and see what they have. I am afraid there is a lot of angry people who would like to lynch the company right now. Maybe I missed something but did any of these angry bloodthirsty people invest and lose money in this? Are these people just acting like public defenders and trying to take down the company before consumers can make up their own minds? There a tons of good and terrible products out there and I am sure many of us have both of those types in our collections but this is ok. People like to buy things and if this thing ever comes out, it will just be another option for people to consider and either buy or not buy. People like to think talk is everything but in the end we all vote with our wallet. I personally am going to wait to see what they finally have and then decide if it something I am interested in buying. Of course these are just my opinions and I am in no way trying to flame anyone else opinions here, who I really do respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakpack Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) Actually let me update what I was saying about the Raspberry Pi. Aren't Micro SD cards relatively cheap to manufacture? How cool would it be specifically program a game for the pie and sell it on a micro SD card? Maybe 2 gigabyte or less have a it a full fledge beefy game. Have what's needed to run it and all you would have to do is pop it in the microSD card slot and have your controllers already purchased and just play a new game. Edited February 25, 2016 by Breakpack 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickcris Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 This is just my opinion and I wanted to share it, I am in no way trying to inflame anyone here on this board, I really do respect everyone's opinion here. I have been following this saga for some time now, ever since the Retro version. I am actually looking forward to seeing how this is going to turn out due to this environment, its very interesting. I originally was quite interested in this console, but the more I heard about it, the more suspicious I became. However, having said that there is a point / observation I wanted to make. I have worked in the video game industry for around 8 years before opening my classic game store back in 2007. I used to work for Sony and for IGN GameSpy. Here is an observation I have made while attending E3's over the years, GDC's, and developer symposiums.. It is not all that unprecedented for a video game company to use hardware other than theirs during development. Sony utilized a big "pyramid" hiding its contents at E3 with only a controller wire coming out of it showing off the PS2 before it was still early in development. In reality it was just a PC people were playing on. It wasn't until the next E3 did people actually see the hardware. In Coleco chameleon case, it really looks like they used a mini SNES.. and it appears that Mike is saying they made changes to the board and cannot show it. All of that is may or may not be true, but my point is that this practice of using other hardware is not all that unusual. Would people have felt better if they were using a PC? I watched those videos of those guys on mics bashing the console for a bunch of valid reasons I can agree with. They made one point however that I wanted to discuss and that the chameleon is only supposed to come with a few games per cart... as opposed to what? The entire library? I am not sure this personally makes sense to me. I don't remember my friends telling me their Xbox One or Playstation 4 came with any games, much less 6 to 15. Would l like more games to come with the Coleco? Sure, I would love the entire library, but I realize that may not be feasible for a litany of reasons. As far as I am concerned I am going to wait to see the final version (if there is one) before I throw any stones and see what they have. I am afraid there is a lot of angry people who would like to lynch the company right now. Maybe I missed something but did any of these angry bloodthirsty people invest and lose money in this? Are these people just acting like public defenders and trying to take down the company before consumers can make up their own minds? There a tons of good and terrible products out there and I am sure many of us have both of those types in our collections but this is ok. People like to buy things and if this thing ever comes out, it will just be another option for people to consider and either buy or not buy. People like to think talk is everything but in the end we all vote with our wallet. I personally am going to wait to see what they finally have and then decide if it something I am interested in buying. Of course these are just my opinions and I am in no way trying to flame anyone else opinions here, who I really do respect. As others have pointed out, Sony was not asking for people to buy the console before it was made. They only took money for the product after it was completed. Who knows if a system will ever come out as it looks like they have no idea how to actually make one from what they have shown so far. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 ... So again, without giving it much thought, perhaps the most logical path instead of creating yet another new console that is locked down to playing its own games would be inventing an easy way for the average person to create cartridge games for existing classic systems. For instance, let's say a relatively inexpensive, reprogrammable (with the option to lock it down to read only) cartridge board that worked on the Genesis and fit in standard Genesis-style shells (that could then be mass produced by someone) was available. .... You mean like this? http://shop.krikzz.com/FlashKit-cart-MD-FKITMD-C.htm http://shop.krikzz.com/FlashKit-programmer-MD-FKITMD-P.htm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toiletunes Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 If Sony shoved a SNES into a PS2 shell, used SNES controllers instead of the controller they had been showing for months, covered the whole shebang with electrical tape, and advertised a fifteen game disc and special controller for $100 (when the same games plus 45 more can be had elsewhere for $30, including controllers) then I would laugh just as hard. It's not so much who did it as it is the ineptness of what was done.And yes, the computer would have been a better Choice, as it at least implies you have developed some kind of software to run things instead of using someone else's console and claiming it as your own work. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 As others have pointed out, Sony was not asking for people to buy the console before it was made. They only took money for the product after it was completed. Who knows if a system will ever come out as it looks like they have no idea how to actually make one from what they have shown so far. Another distinction is that a company like Sony doesn't have as much to prove, or as many credibility issues to overcome, as the RVGS/Chameleon team does. Sony is a big company, like all the other major players in the console space, and nobody doubts that they have the engineering expertise to produce a new console because they've obviously done it many times before. So when they set up a display at a convention which includes hardware that is different from what the final product will be, everyone understands that they simply don't have the hardware in a playable state, but that it will be finished in time. After all, they are mainly interested in selling people on their games, not necessarily on their hardware. A small-fry operation like the RVGS/Chameleon project doesn't have any of those luxuries. There are much more serious concerns about their ability to execute and produce a working prototype—understandably so, especially after the RVGS/IndieGoGo fiasco—which is why all the double-talk and the evasiveness and the outright incompetence surrounding their SNES-in-a-blanket Toy Fair "prototype" is more damaging to them. They also don't have any exclusive games to show off: the titles in their starting lineup are all either SNES indie games or old games that will supposedly be recycled ported over from other systems. They also have the added burden of having to justify why their project needs to exist. That's the first question that anyone looking to raise money needs to have a good answer to, whether that money comes from crowdfunding or from venture capital. For Sony and the other major players, the answer is obvious: they have the resources to be able to bring enough exclusive titles and features to their systems that they can meaningfully differentiate them from the competition and maintain a profitable market share. But as I and others have said, the Chameleon is a solution in search of a problem. With all the other ways of having everything that they are promising to deliver, and much more, they need to provide a justification for what they're doing, beyond ego-stroking or reliving their (highly idealized) past or fulfilling their dream of producing their own system. So far, they've failed to do that. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I guess that's just an overly long way of saying yet again that this whole thing is a solution in search of a non-existent problem. Unless you define the problem as "how can I get some of this sweet retro gaming money for myself," which is a different discussion entirely. Isn't that the gist of this whole thread? The dreams and desires of Retro VHS Mike Kennedy are in direct opposition to what the market wants. It's very fitting that GameGavel used to be called Chase the Chuckwagon, named after a lousy but hard-to-find promotional game for the Atari VCS. This whole venture is about low-value, high cost products. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atm94404 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I watched those videos of those guys on mics bashing the console for a bunch of valid reasons I can agree with. They made one point however that I wanted to discuss and that the chameleon is only supposed to come with a few games per cart... as opposed to what? The entire library? I am not sure this personally makes sense to me. I don't remember my friends telling me their Xbox One or Playstation 4 came with any games, much less 6 to 15. Would l like more games to come with the Coleco? Sure, I would love the entire library, but I realize that may not be feasible for a litany of reasons. Actually my Xbox One came with multiple games. It was the retail bundle which was the same price as the console MSRP. It had one game on disc. That game case included a download code for the prequel to the game (that would play on the Xbone via 360 emulation). In addition, the retailer included two extra games via download codes. These were four AAA games that amounted to literally hundreds of hours of gameplay included with the console as "pack-ins". Some people may think digital downloads are evil, but I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth (plus between those four games, I never had to get up to swap discs). In the case of the Chameleon, the reason why the 15 games per cart is ridiculous is because they want $35 when I can get those exact same games as part of the over 60 included in each $30 Flashback. And that $30 includes two controllers which if I bought them for the Chameleon would cost an additional $70 (for two). So I can spend $60 total for the Colecovision AND Intellivision Flashbacks OR I can spend more than $350 IN ADDITION to the $135 (early bird pricing) to buy the Chameleon for the same experience. Mike's target demographic must dine exclusively here: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osgeld Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) Prepare to get schooled haters! Daniel Kayser is a long-standing authority on video game systems... 'nuff said! http://readretro.com/features/talk-retro-24/ Just wait until this Kickstarter breaks the internet tomorrow and Mike and Co. are RAKING in the cash! lol yea how convenient that Daniel who the fk is this guy suposta be, and who the hell cares anyway, endorses a retro project on the retro website actually I was thinking the only winners in this whole storm is the youtubers... Billy we dont care who you are, with 100 subscribers running off their mouths like they are some community leaders with inside information slapping their terrible videos on this thread trying to generate a couple extra clicks... Just as slimy as anything else on here IMO Edited February 25, 2016 by Osgeld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheClassyGamer Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 As far as I am concerned I am going to wait to see the final version (if there is one) before I throw any stones and see what they have. I am afraid there is a lot of angry people who would like to lynch the company right now. Maybe I missed something but did any of these angry bloodthirsty people invest and lose money in this? Are these people just acting like public defenders and trying to take down the company before consumers can make up their own minds? There a tons of good and terrible products out there and I am sure many of us have both of those types in our collections but this is ok. People like to buy things and if this thing ever comes out, it will just be another option for people to consider and either buy or not buy. First please understand that its cool. I respect your opinion as well. Also,I think I understand where you are coming from on most of your post. I may not agree with all of it or such but that doesn't really matter. I would like to ask about the section quoted above. Also, this is not directed at you, but the idea. I mean no offense here, and this is just my opinion of how the concept feels to me.. I've seen several other posts talking about the same kind of thing at other places and I after some thought I would like to share my opinion on that idea. Why does it have to be about money? Why is that the only thing that matters? I mean to me, that's the take away here. You didn't pay to play so you shouldn't complain. To that I'll counter that the entire gaming community is paying and will continue to pay for this. Right now the mainstream video game scene is in my opinion beyond awful. Companies are stuffing paywalls anywhere they can, releasing unfinished buggy products and it's supposed to be okay because they can be patched, sending out games broken into little bits wanting you to subscribe, trying to sell you on a ten year DLC package, spending resources on adding things like emotes and new color skins rather than content and doing it all at a premium price. The mentality is fast becoming such that making money isn't good enough unless you are making all the money. In response we get a video game system coming out with a promise to do things differently. That gets quite a few people interested. A lot of people invest their time following the project in one form or another. It gets publicity, makes it into the public eye well enough that the gaming community knows about it to some degree. That creates a huge issue when the project flops because it was a scam versus because it was an untenable idea. If the RVGS or Chameleon had came out and done everything right. Wasn't a scam, delivered on it's promises or even at least made an all around honest effort to try and be what it was advertised as and still flopped that would be different, though it would still send the same message. Because there are going to be people watching to see what this does and it won't matter why it fails just that it fails. When it fails then it puts yet another nail in the coffin of there maybe some positive change in the mainstream gaming system. If it had been a success, well it most likely wouldn't have made any real tenable change at the moment, but it would have been a step in the right direction. It could have been proof of concept that on a bigger scale people want something different then the same crap they are being shoveled. But that is not going to happen. What the outside world is going to see is that this flops and not really see why because they aren't investing their time or energy to really follow the product. The Chameleon has been hyped up and put on a pedestal for the gaming world to see, and all they are going to see is it fail. That is only going to serve to hurt the hobby for those of us who are interested in seeing a change in direction who are interested in different things. So look at the Retro Freak and ask had the Retron 5 not been met with the measure of success it has had, would we have a Retro Freak now? If the Ouya had been received as a success by the market, what kind of systems would we have coming out now? Everyone in the community has a right to be angry about this. Scams, crap, deception, and things like this whole Chameleon RVGS farce do nothing but damage the community as a whole. Is it really any different than if there were a guy around the corner mugging people, but seeing as how he didn't steal from me I've no right to complain about shit going on in my neighborhood? Anyone who cares about their gaming community should be upset. Rather than let the market decide, why not allow the community to rally and send a message saying we don't want to be lied to, treated like we are stupid, jerked around, or scammed?. Why does not having spent money on something remove a persons right to say something is wrong? We can vote with our dollars, but that still won't undo the damage crap like this does to the community. I don't see it as wrong as to try and prevent a problem rather than just let it run it's course. Now if people do want this, that's a real thing. Do they want what they are being promised, versus what they will get? People do have to take it upon themselves to make an informed decision and it is not our job to be out brothers keepers. I can't make anyone buy or not buy. At best we can help people make an informed opinion by presenting what information there is. As for the anger, well when someone feels like they are being shit on they tend to be angry. I can't believe that all the angst against the Chameleon is just because it's fun to hate or bandwagon jumping. There are a lot of us here who were willing to drop the cash for the RVGS until after it turned into a pig circus and we found out we were being taken for a ride, and still yet we were willing to give the Chameleon a fair shake and got the exact same song and dance. No we didn't invest any money. I suppose it's wrong to be upset with someone when you find out they are trying to deceive you, treat you like you're stupid, and just plain out right lie to get your money, until after they have your money. Every time I see something along these lines of " Maybe I missed something but did any of these angry bloodthirsty people invest and lose money in this? Are these people just acting like public defenders and trying to take down the company before consumers can make up their own minds?" It feels like I'm being told.. So if you don't like where this is going, feel like its bad for the community, don't like being lied to, treated like a moron, or just plain taken for a ride, please invest in the project so you can have a legitimate right voice your disgust and be upset and angry. Otherwise, I can't see for the life of me why you should be upset, you've still got your money, because people have the right to lie, cheat, and steal from you and your community and you shouldn't try to prevent that from happening. So I guess people are acting as public defenders. If there were none I would have put my money on the RVGS, and I'm very thankful there are public defenders so I didn't have to learn the hard way that was a total ripoff lie. There is a difference between a lame product coming to market and people buying it versus a people buying into a scam. Anyone who thinks crap like this should come to market for people to vote with their cash.. well, just wait until grandma gets a reverse mortgage from that nice man, or buys a bridge up state, gets a nice full coverage volcano insurance policy. There is a difference between a company releasing a product and a con man selling dream. I suppose the issue here is for everyone to make their own decision as to which one this is. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dj_convoy Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) It is not all that unprecedented for a video game company to use hardware other than theirs during development. A mod made that point earlier in the week. Fine (I don't believe it's fine, but let's go with it) but the team doubled down and said that not only did they not use an SNES Mini, they were using something running a apparently super functional FPGA with fully working SNES core. So, even if it's okay for them to be using something other than what they are going to be using, the team flat out and said that wasn't the case, and that they somehow have something that no one else in the retro community has ( a fully functional SNES FPGA core). It doesn't add up, and it's, in my opinion, flat out deceitful. This isn't Microsoft using a PC to simulate an X-Box One. Edited February 25, 2016 by dj_convoy 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoofu Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 (edited) So funny people are comparing the original PlayStation to this Sony gave their project a huge team for its development, and also had hundreds of computer programmers for its game library This is just a emulator that is using New carts for old games Edited February 25, 2016 by enoofu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StopDrop&Retro Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Sony utilized a big "pyramid" hiding its contents at E3 with only a controller wire coming out of it showing off the PS2 before it was still early in development. In reality it was just a PC people were playing on. It wasn't until the next E3 did people actually see the hardware. This seems to be a rally cry that the supporters are actively trying to emphasize right now. Are you guys doing this to prepare for when Mike omits the Toy Fair prototype entirely from the KickStarter page and this could be his explanation for what "the haters" are warning backers about? That's not going to work because it's a ridiculous notion to compare Mike to a company like Sony that's running their OS on a PC dev box at a trade show. One is showing off their own progress up to that point for a product that will appear on store shelves, the other is lying to your face because he wants to use your real money to play make-believe. You guys are going to have to do better than that. It's just like in the first campaign when he tried to get people to believe that his console should cost $350 because when you adjust to inflation, most retro consoles were $700. If your response to criticism requires that the audience ignore their own common sense, then it's probably not going to work. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flojomojo Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 In the case of the Chameleon, the reason why the 15 games per cart is ridiculous is because they want $35 when I can get those exact same games as part of the over 60 included in each $30 Flashback. And that $30 includes two controllers which if I bought them for the Chameleon would cost an additional $70 (for two). Not to mention that we are talking about ColecoVision games, which are about 35 years old, very simple, the kind of things you can play in a web browser. They aren't packing in Skyrim and Borderlands 2. Everyone in the community has a right to be angry about this. Scams, crap, deception, and things like this whole Chameleon RVGS farce do nothing but damage the community as a whole. Is it really any different than if there were a guy around the corner mugging people, but seeing as how he didn't steal from me I've no right to complain about shit going on in my neighborhood? Anyone who cares about their gaming community should be upset. Rather than let the market decide, why not allow the community to rally and send a message saying we don't want to be lied to, treated like we are stupid, jerked around, or scammed?. Why does not having spent money on something remove a persons right to say something is wrong? We can vote with our dollars, but that still won't undo the damage crap like this does to the community. I don't see it as wrong as to try and prevent a problem rather than just let it run it's course. I liked everything you said, but particularly this. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybird3rd Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I liked everything you said, but particularly this. Me too. "Don't like it? Don't buy it! It's that simple!!!" is the oft-repeated rejoinder to the objections that have been raised in threads like this one, and to me, it's starting to sound like a glib way of shutting down the criticism. It implies that, unless Mike Kennedy stole your money or ran over your cat or whatever, you should just keep your mouth shut because it isn't personally affecting you. Quite the contrary. I think it's entirely appropriate for a community to police itself, and to rid itself of snake oil salesmen. It's one of many reasons I'm glad that threads like this one, and podcasts like the CUPodcast and Game Escape, are succeeding at getting the word out. As I've said before, this is a project that needs to die, and we—the passionate ones in the community who genuinely care about it, and who don't want to see it poisoned by opportunists—are the ones who need to kill it. Besides, if we've learned anything about the people involved in this project (including their social-media cheerleading squad), it's that when any of them insist "It's that simple!", that means that it isn't. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaysWithWolves Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I like this guy's product; sign me up for three! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sh3-rg Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 It is not all that unprecedented for a video game company to use hardware other than theirs during development. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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