Has the video game bubble started to crack?

[minux]

Crack... what I ment is that collecting hard to find and expensive games can be utterly addictive, and a habit hard do get rid off even if you want to, like smoking crack:

 

 

But maybe the right ord is burst or break... when it comes to the "economic" side of this bubble...

 

To amplify, the show The Wire featured a character who was a crack addicted and named Bubbles. You are pretty spot on in the cultural reference department, intentional or not.

[032-Bias]

I liquidated my backup collection. I no longer have my vacation home, so it was silly to have duplicates of so much stuff.

 

I always list things without a buy it now, when I know it will fetch high prices. In all instances of Atari related stuff or game stuff in general, most of my auctions sold for very high prices. I am not sure if it is still accurate, but I sold copies for record prices, previously. This includes items that were all listed for auction.

 

I know some sellers are simply unethical that believe they can shill the market and the like. This is ridiculous. The older I got, the internal bickering and politics of the "scene," and the constant harping on prices was one major decision to depart.

 

So many people use eBay, the days of $1 items that could be resold to the right buyer for hundreds of dollars are long gone. If you really want to sell something, then do a straight up auction. What it sells for is what it is worth.

 

You are a saint of the eBay retro gaming scene.

 

I want every snobby and stupid eBay seller that has stuff roll over on their exclusively Buy It Now listings to read this. I have personally watched items get relisted for months at the same price and never sell, or worse getting relisted for HIGHER PRICES after not selling the first time. Some wise up and lower prices (incrementally usually) until it sells, but so many don't.

 

One seller (who will go unnamed and has been a real dick to me recently) finally saw the light and has been taking down their Buy it now or best offer listings and set up auctions instead. They went from literally hundreds of listings to about fifteen at the moment since they can actually sell their shit now instead of people waiting for it to come down to a reasonable price.

[phoenixdownita]

 

You are a saint of the eBay retro gaming scene.

 

I want every snobby and stupid eBay seller that has stuff roll over on their exclusively Buy It Now listings to read this. I have personally watched items get relisted for months at the same price and never sell, or worse getting relisted for HIGHER PRICES after not selling the first time. Some wise up and lower prices (incrementally usually) until it sells, but so many don't.

 

One seller (who will go unnamed and has been a real dick to me recently) finally saw the light and has been taking down their Buy it now or best offer listings and set up auctions instead. They went from literally hundreds of listings to about fifteen at the moment since they can actually sell their shit now instead of people waiting for it to come down to a reasonable price.

I am not sure I understand the logic here.

I've never SOLD on eBay but I do buy and usually as BIN if the price is reasonable to me (I hate having to bid and wait and be carried away paying more than I really wanted to ... it happened).

I did get a couple of pleasant surprises via auctions as well, so I don't want to dismiss it as a channel, but last I researched it a big chunk of eBay business was moving to BIN model (like Amazon marketplace).

 

There's nothing to be mad per se about inflated prices, that's the law of supply and demand. Once they can't sell the prices come down as you experienced, by the way that's the market working its way.

It may be frustrating having to wait until the 2 (supply and demand) meet but that has always been the case.

 

Also many sellers are in only for the speculation, they may well have a lot of time they can wait to sell their stuff, others instead need to move inventory and thus lower the prices.

 

Assuming that you can go to eBay the same way you go to Goodwill/flea-markets and pick up stuff all around you at very cheap prices is a little flawed, I understand it would be nice but that's not what eBay wanted to be anyway. Auctions by definition are trying to get as much as they can per item, not the other way around.

 

I'm mad as hell that I can't buy a Jag Pro controller for 50US$ but it is what it is, I don't have to buy it (it is not like a medicine that I actually need) so I have to play the same game the sellers do and wait. I noticed that if I wait long enough sometimes an alternative shows up that is much cheaper (not all the times obviously) or I just lose interest.

[032-Bias]

I'm not trying to come off as "they should be the prices I say", but some of the stuff is just ridiculously priced and there is very little market for it. I recently got a 3DO and some of the prices for games I find are rather reasonable since no one cares about the darn thing, but the Jaguar (as we all know) has some pretty insane prices when it should be in about the same area of relevance. That can lead into a topic of fads and popularity because it is "an awful piece of hardware" that everyone wants to own, but that has been discussed thoroughly by people more knowledgeable than me on this forum already.

 

I also have nothing against Buy It Now listings as long as it is reasonable, and best offers are great as long as the seller actually intends to review offers and not instantly reject anything that is not $5 less than the Buy It Now price. But the problem is that these kinds of listings can drive up the price and keep it high; an item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Granted, someone usually buys these items regardless of how they are priced, but auctions feel like a better measurement and standard to me. They may be more inconvenient for some, but you get the item sold and sometimes actually get more than the item would have sold for otherwise.

 

I understand that there is a market that is always fluctuating and that I can't always get a deal, but it is the same reason I drive an hour out of our town once a month to go to see the game store in the next city; the prices are higher than the market. The store in the next city has prices that are competitive with even eBay and they usually have a special sale or two to further reduce the price. I'm still spending a lot of money on this stuff even at current market price, but I feel good about it and don't feel like I'm getting ripped off like at the local store. Same mentality for me on eBay; if something is reasonable I'll probably go for it, especially if it doesn't show up often. Not like the copy of Brain Dead 13 complete for Jag CD a while back on eBay that didn't sell for like $150 or so, so it got relisted at $200 the next time around. That kind of mentality is crazy to me, but if people have the time to let it sit then they don't have do to anything with it.

 

I guess I got a little worked up and long winded here. If actually got my point across here, I'll be surprised since I am not the best at writing down stuff like this. Anyway, this is always an interesting topic to me and I never intend to come off as pious or any other "high and mighty" mentality.

Edited April 11, 2016 by 032-Bias

[Cobra Kai]

Bubbles crack? Never seen that happen before.

It's the Jag forum metaphor mashup! Where bubbles crack, and nuts BURST.

 

On topic: No, I do not see any trends for favorable conditions for a buyers market. I also enthusiastically support Ebay as a website in general, and I dont' assume every seller on there is out to fleece everybody. I wouldn't have been able to play %75 of the games I've played and owned without that website, it's one of the greatest websites of all time, quite easily so. It's really annoying about all the butthurt about game prices on the upward trend, but sooner or later you must realize that these are antique collectibles now, with the intrinsic value of actually being a usable product for entertainment the same as it was brand new.

 

I actually prefer BIN's. Why go through the hassle of hanging around waiting for an auction to end when I'm perfectly happy with a BIN price that gets shipped almost immediately? I'll even pay a little more for the privelage. I don't care if you think I paid too much according to your standards you butthurt little snowflake! I'll be enjoying my game and you won't.

[racerx]

If the bubble is about to burst, no one let these guys know at the Midwest Gaming Classic over the weekend.

 

 

[Keatah]

 

You are a saint of the eBay retro gaming scene.

 

I want every snobby and stupid eBay seller that has stuff roll over on their exclusively Buy It Now listings to read this. I have personally watched items get relisted for months at the same price and never sell, or worse getting relisted for HIGHER PRICES after not selling the first time. Some wise up and lower prices (incrementally usually) until it sells, but so many don't.

 

I've been tracking some items since 2012. Same price, same no-response to my suggestion of doing an auction instead of buy-it-now.

 

What's funny is when something is listed at a high price and the item gets a lot of watches. And sellers mistake that as interest in the item. And they equate that to demand.

[Carbon Tiger]

I've just started collecting for the Jaguar and the prices outside of really rare or hard to find stuff isn't terrible by any stretch a bit high for such old games at times but nowhere near the stupid level of Nintendo stuff. The most I've spent on a game so far is about $38 to $45 each for three harder to find games (AvP, NBA Jam, Attack of the Mutant Penguins). Most of the games are around the $15 - $30 range. In my head a game is $60 so I kind of frame everything through that reference point.

 

That being said the market is still very much hard to read. Currently I'm selling off my old SNES games so I get to do some price comparisons. I started the auctions bellow market value and just let them ride and put in BIN for the impatient. A lot of it is going as you would expect. So far the only BIN was for Super Mario World for $22 I started it at $8.00 but hey some folks don't want to wait or bid I do the same thing I hate babysitting an auction.

 

Still some stuff is interesting to me. FF III broken save battery noted as such currently at a bid far higher then a digital download or GBA copy of the same game. FF III has been re-released on it feels like 10 different things I have a copy of it on my iPad. This game is in no way rare and my copy needs repairs. Where the crazy really ups is Chrono Trigger same situation as FF III re-released on 10 things not at all rare. Currently has a ton of bids on it is likely to break $100 at this rate.

 

Guess I've got no room to talk I'm buying Jag games but it is interesting to see what the market defines as value even if I don't always get it. I thought flash carts would help level off prices guess I was wrong on that one.

[phoenixdownita]

...

Guess I've got no room to talk I'm buying Jag games but it is interesting to see what the market defines as value even if I don't always get it. I thought flash carts would help level off prices guess I was wrong on that one.

They do for gamers, but some of them have to pass the block of having to shell 80-200+US$ for the flashcards/ODE.

But they do not for collectors obviously ... some people starts as collectors then they just become gamers .... some go the other way around.

[Keatah]

Well the collectors that become gamers are fake gamers. Anybody can collect and hoard colored boxes. Not everybody can get the hi-score!

[Keatah]

Guess I've got no room to talk I'm buying Jag games but it is interesting to see what the market defines as value even if I don't always get it. I thought flash carts would help level off prices guess I was wrong on that one.

 

Flash carts help true gamers get away from their hoarder tendencies. But being wrong about flash carts lowering the market overall brings to light who collects cartridges in the first place.

[Carbon Tiger]

 

Flash carts help true gamers get away from their hoarder tendencies. But being wrong about flash carts lowering the market overall brings to light who collects cartridges in the first place.

 

Yeah I guess it is a collector vs. player mentality. Not that I don't have plenty of stuff but I've started selling off stuff that's easily replaced by newer technology. A flash cart on the original hardware I think is a nice medium ground if you're just looking to play games and don't care for emulators for whatever reason.

 

Collectors gotta catch em all and have the complete set. I get it but at the same time feel bad about having games I still need to get to cause I already have so many. Thanks to Steam and other cheap game sources my back catalog is a mile deep. While collecting is nice I'd hate not having the time to get to it.

 

But you're right different 'goals' I guess.

[Keatah]

I think collecting can be fun when you first start getting into it. But then it turns sour when the hunt becomes tedious. It turns sour when any addition seems like a burden on the rich and in-depth collection. You know that watering down effect that comes with gotta-catch-em'all mentality. Dilution and filler material.

[Cobra Kai]

They do for gamers, but some of them have to pass the block of having to shell 80-200+US$ for the flashcards/ODE.

But they do not for collectors obviously ... some people starts as collectors then they just become gamers .... some go the other way around.

My intuition says that most people are both. The concept of collector VS gamer is BS. Who's to determine what a collector is? A big pile of games that became organized? Guess what, I'm very good at playing video games, and I have a bad-ass collection because I've been doing it for 30 years. You tend to acquire things in life.

 

On the flip side, what is a real gamer? I only tend to see that term originating from people who are basically rom hoarders with no skin in the game concerning the marketplace. They sure like to complain about game prices alot too, even though they really have no worries about it, more just to rationalize rom hunting.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Nuclear Pacman

[phoenixdownita]

The intent was to distinguish people that would buy a game to put it on a shelf (maybe still shrinkwrapped) with the intent to just leave it there (no playing) or maybe complete the set of games of type X (still no playing) vs the ones that care abut playing it but not so much to hang onto it forever.

 

The disorder that compels to have all physical VGs is indeed the same that compels to have all ROMz, main difference is nowadays it is trivial to find "complete" sets in one download which is way more convenient than track each and every one. (complete sets for CDROM are still huge and force a selection criteria).

 

If you feel you are a bit of both so be it but I believe the distinction between collecting per se vs hunting down gameX to play it is fairly straightforward.

What one does after having played GameX is a different matter, hanging onto it for 30Y or not depends on space available, opportunity, cost, intent and a few other "accidental" events (some people lost their stash in a fire just to feel liberated [sad but liberated] while others lost it in a flood and feel miserable ever since).

[82-T/A]

The market will change... I think we're in a high right now, and I do expect it to get low. It's like anything in our generation. But it's all based on supply and demand.

 

DEMAND: Our generation (those of us in our mid to late 30s) who either had one as a kid, or who didn't and wanted one. We are the ones who are primarily buying Jaguar games and systems... same as many of us are for SNES, Nintendo, etc. Most of us have kids now... so that can go two ways, some of us are getting rid of stuff because we're being responsible, and others of us are keeping stuff (or buying more) because we want our kids to be able to play the same stuff.

 

SUPPLY: How many of these games were made back in the day? I don't remember the whole "scandal" with Battlesphere, but seeing as how there are so few, there's a reason why it commands so much money. Same with Atari Karts, Defender 2000, etc.

 

 

My guess is... the market has cooled off. A lot of us are starting to get to that point where we are considering... do we get rid of this stuff and move on? Many of us are saying yes. As interest drops, so will the prices. NIB stuff will probably always be somewhat high because there are many people out there (regardless of age) that just want it all.

 

 

I had a pretty huge video game collection about a decade ago... it didn't overwhelm me by any means, but I realized that I didn't quite understand why I had it. I rarely played games... so I started selling it off and giving it away. I'm pretty much down to what I want to keep. I have all my Jaguar games, my 2600 + 7800 games, my 8 bit Nintendo, an SNES, a Sega Saturn and Dreamcast, and a Wii. Still seems like a lot to me... but I'm good with that.

 

I've thought over time about selling my Jaguar stuff since I could easily get really good money for it (I've got all the original boxes), but money just isn't that important to me... I'd much rather have those games.

[Professor Gull]

Just thought I would put in a couple of cents here myself.

 

I was one of those dumb ass people who just did not thrown anything away from my video games 20 plus years back. So when I found the stuff I was like neat lets play some games and have some friends over to play games and we were all happy with what I pulled out of boxes day after day from storage. Then one of my gaming buddies 2 years ago said you should get more so I went shopping.

 

I was shocked really not looking anything up that I owned initially but trying to get stuff I wanted like Jaguar games. I was figuring like 10 bucks tops but that be not the truth which really turned my mindset off in a collectors standpoint. I have what I have get what I can in whatever condition and play it that was my wallet rational decision and I stick to it as much as I can.

 

So with that bubble issue I think we need to think more on people holding onto stuff but our savior are the people who dump more stuff into the open market. If there were higher quantity in goods one would see a decrease in prices but sadly for now I don't see it.

 

Now I am off to the pawn shop to go get a copy of Smash Brother Melee for the GameCube for $25 CIB.

[Keatah]

From time to time I think about dumping all my non-charter Apple II material. The stuff I purchased during and after the dotcom era.

[Pete5125]

I'm looking at the prices of used XBOX 360 and Nintendo Wii Games and most come with case and instructions used on Amazon in the $5 to $20 range.

 

May be the way to get into soon to be retro games cheaply....

[Professor Gull]

Wii is a decent thing to get into and wont cost an arm and leg. You can get some good game collections for fair prices like the Metal Slug Anthology which I have seen in my local Game stop for $12. As far as 360 and ps3 you can get retro compilations for fair prices as well so something to consider.

 

I just like having the old consoles though call it personal preference I guess.

[Rick Dangerous]

Having a complete collection is really a losing battle because of all the filler you will have, I have come close with Jaguar and can't pull the trigger on the last few games I know are terrible and I will never play.

 

The older I get and the less time I have, I realize that I want to spend it PLAYING games and not collecting endless shelves of stuff. I think when I move in a few months I'm going to use it as an opportunity to make my collection lean and mean, and shed MANY games that i don't need to have in my collection. That's where the flash/SD carts come in. If you want to play "Shaq Fu" just to laugh at it with some friends, load up the ROM from your SD Cart. But if you want to play NBA JAM, maybe it is nice to pop in the cart you've had since Christmas 94' and play with a friend for nostalgia's sake.

 

I am a gamer and a collector and I see myself continuing to do both going forward. Thinning the collection to be lean and mean good condition high quality items, and getting SD carts for each system so I can explore the library when needed. I do believe classic gaming is in a bubble right now, most people I talk to about gaming barely remember Sega let alone Atari. The demand is artificial and is a result of greedy eBay re-sellers, news hype articles "your old videogame could be worth 12k!!," and sentimental sellers. I think some items will stay up due to sheer notoriety, but as these systems become more obscure prices will continue to drift downwards. I will be curious to see if there is an outright "pop" of prices, but have been noticing a drift downward for some items even these last 6 months.

[Professor Gull]

The demand is artificial and is a result of greedy eBay re-sellers, news hype articles "your old videogame could be worth 12k!!," and sentimental sellers. I think some items will stay up due to sheer notoriety, but as these systems become more obscure prices will continue to drift downwards. I will be curious to see if there is an outright "pop" of prices, but have been noticing a drift downward for some items even these last 6 months.

 

Those stupid articles saying your stuff is worth money is total crap. I give Craigs people here who are local to me the spiel of " Ebay values it for this but to me this is worth X. Sell it on Ebay if you want those prices." It was strange like 3 months ago there was a weird rush on Atari 2600 stuff for a bit but that has since calmed down.

 

I am with you on just playing the games though its the nostalgia for the stuff from the past and not the crap of a complete set that matters. No desire to play Spiderman Web of Fire for 32X so nope not going to spend 250 plus for that one thanks.

 

I am also pretty truthful with folks passing into my local retro game place when they try to cash in on a box found in a storage and such. No one needs 50 copies of Madden......ever.

[Rick Dangerous]

 

No desire to play Spiderman Web of Fire for 32X so nope not going to spend 250 plus for that one thanks.

 

Played this one on my MegaEverdrive recently. It's not half bad. Would I ever pay $300+ to have it on my shelf for collectors purposes? Absolutely not. If I say the game in the wild I'd pay $20 for it...lol. That's one of those games that's so pricey "because its oh so rare!" Well the ROM isn't rare. People using common sense is what will eventually drive prices down. It's also amazed me how much owning various SD carts has driven down my tolerance for overpaying for carts. I think as those become more common people will realize they don't need physical copies (at any price over $50) and that should help bring prices down as well (market saturation and availability of SD carts.)

Edited April 18, 2016 by travistouchdown

[Professor Gull]

I think as those become more common people will realize they don't need physical copies (at any price over $50) and that should help bring prices down as well (market saturation and availability of SD carts.)

 

And to be fair I did go out and mod one of my Sega Saturns just so I could try out some games. I know you can emulate as well but playing with the controller was worth the cost of the mod in my opinion. Once again ridiculous to collect for but the boxes look nice on the shelf though. But that stack of cd cases is all non original stuff I just wanted to play but wont go buy.

 

What I wonder though is for all the people collecting when you get tired of it it goes back into the availability pool and hopefully that will also drive prices back down.

[+madman]

I am with you on just playing the games though its the nostalgia for the stuff from the past and not the crap of a complete set that matters. No desire to play Spiderman Web of Fire for 32X so nope not going to spend 250 plus for that one thanks.

Yeah, this is one thing I've posted about a few times, some prices are too prohibitive for full collections. I've accepted that I'll never complete my 32X collection because of Spiderman and the World Series game unless I can find them in the wild for cheap or a clueless EBayer setting a low BIN. Same thing with my Virtual Boy collection, I'm not paying $1,000 or whatever for Space Invaders. There's just no point spending that kind of coin. I've gone the Everdrive/flash route for a lot of consoles and the more I think about it, the more I want to sell off a lot of stuff I have sitting around collecting dust.