Robotron 64 Atari Jaguar port

[BladeJunker]

I recently played the PS1 version again for the first time in many years. I used to play it a bit and boy has it aged poorly. The middling framerate and 'slippery' controls make it harder than it should be. They're not quite the deal breaker as the basis for a good addictive twitchy arcade shmup is there, but it does miss the mark by a fair margin. I may have recently picked up the n64 version (not sure) so I might give that a go sometime.

 

For those who are suggesting that Llamatron has a 'strange theme' or are even suggesting that Robotron X is a better game than Llamatron, all I can say is play the thing (preferably with two joysticks). Llamatron is, in my humble opinion, better than the Eugene Jarvis original. It is probably the best Robotron clone ever released and, again in my opinion, the 3D remakes of Robotron aren't even in the same ballpark.

 

BUT - back in the day I too had the same thoughts with regard to it's suitability for the Jag. There's nothing stopping a 'decent' existing 3D engine for the Jagu being used a basic for a top down arena shooter. The Iron Soldier / IS 2 engine would work I reckon, as would the Battlemorph engine (IIRC there's a top down view in that). Whether such things are available or easily modifiable is another thing entirely though.

 

I personally can't wait to buy Llamatron

Thank you that is what I'm looking for, bad frame rates and slippery control, that at least gets me into the arena of what is wrong with it other than "It sucks balls." . Yeah there is something to be said about instant 2D animation and digital control versus gradual 3D transforms and analog control.

 

I'm sorry robots taking over is positively cliche so it is familiar but laser shooting llamas that rescue sheep, with burgers, toilets, coke, cow skulls, squids(?), and also brains. Not strange, do you live in Narnia or the Land of Ooo? Game is still fun so I hope you don't think I'm saying it is a bad game even if it has a happy helping of WTF, guess I didn't grow up with it so it looks strange to outsiders.

 

Yeah if it were 3D I'd likely start over from scratch with the 3D models, make something ideal for the Jaguar throughput. That's why I was asking about there flaws, inherent 3D problems or just bad design. Also I'd likely rename it also because of all the changes and legal red tape.

 

I guess we'll see about physical copies.

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/234397-thank-you-jeff-minter-all-hail-the-yak-king-of-the-webs/

[skip]

I'm sorry robots taking over is positively cliche so it is familiar but laser shooting llamas that rescue sheep, with burgers, toilets, coke, cow skulls, squids(?), and also brains. Not strange, do you live in Narnia or the Land of Ooo? Game is still fun so I hope you don't think I'm saying it is a bad game even if it has a happy helping of WTF, guess I didn't grow up with it so it looks strange to outsiders.

Look up the history of games made by Jeff Minter (Llamasoft). This is one of his more 'normal' ventures.

 

Seriously, get onto his back catalogue, even with emulators. One of the best lone coders there is. For 35 odd years or so.

[Scorponok]

I think Robotron 64 for the N64 could be ported over to the jaguar. Theres no reason why the Jaguar cant handle that game. If anybody has the development skills and a dev unit and would be willing to make the engine, i could rip all of the assets from the N64 game. Then said project could be presented to a publisher such as reboot or songbird. The only thing im not sure about is the copywrite of Robotron. Im thinking maybe this could still be done with permission from Netherrealm studios or WB games. Thoughts?

I always thought that both Robotron 64 and Astroids 64 felt like they were made for the Jaguar. A system that excels in porting old Arcade games in a modern 3d look. Both games are REALLY decent and are a lot of fun and remind me of Jag titles such as Defender 2000, Tempest 2000, Breakout 2000 and Missile Command 3D.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

I always thought that both Robotron 64 and Astroids 64 felt like they were made for the Jaguar. A system that excels in porting old Arcade games in a modern 3d look. Both games are REALLY decent and are a lot of fun and remind me of Jag titles such as Defender 2000, Tempest 2000, Breakout 2000 and Missile Command 3D.

 

I forgot all about Asteroids Hyper 64! Yes that would also be good for the Jaguar, i guess with Rebooteroids being made this year it totally slipped my mind there was another Asteroids out there that would be a good fit for the Jag. I always felt it was more like Blasteroids though.

In any event, i will likely have to be the one to port these as nobody here seems to think they are worthy canidates. It's fine though, im trying to learn assembly now. I would also like to try and remake demon attack and food fight. I think those games were really fun and would love to replay them on the jag. I have some ideas on how to update the look of the existing food fight arcade sprites.

[galax]

I personally can't wait to buy Llamatron

 

I already bought Llamatron by sending Jeff a cheque 25 years ago (I still have the cigar smoking camel poster he sent back!) and I can't wait to buy it again

[ZylonBane]

I think Robotron 64 for the N64 could be ported over to the jaguar. Theres no reason why the Jaguar cant handle that game.

 

No reason? Riiight. Name one Jaguar game that has as many and as detailed polygonal objects on screen at once as Robotron 64 and that runs at a solid 30FPS.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

Battlemorph. Theres really not a lot of objects on screen the playfield (Robotron64) is very bland. Empty almost. The textures are also very dull and low detail., it has a shaded look to the whole game. The psychedelic background texture has also been done many times over on the jaguar so thats not an issue either. This is a port of a ps1 game mind you. We are not talking Banjo Tooie here its Robotron 64 for Christs sake

Edited April 17, 2016 by Jeffrey_Bones

[BladeJunker]

 

No reason? Riiight. Name one Jaguar game that has as many and as detailed polygonal objects on screen at once as Robotron 64 and that runs at a solid 30FPS.

Yeah I'm starting to think it should be more along the lines of what they did in Dungeon Keeper 1 to work properly, fix the view angle Overhead and use 3D sprites. That should help with the frame rate and at least let the level mesh be texture mapped.

 

What do you think would work, maybe multi-colored units as basic cubes? Like a 3D equivalent of Invaders+.

https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=283

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

Yeah I'm starting to think it should be more along the lines of what they did in Dungeon Keeper 1 to work properly, fix the view angle Overhead and use 3D sprites. That should help with the frame rate and at least let the level mesh be texture mapped.

 

What do you think would work, maybe multi-colored units as basic cubes? Like a 3D equivalent of Invaders+.

https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=283

I was actually thinking 3D sprites anyway. But still those textures are very low detail the jag COULD handle it

Also SKYHAMMER is another game..... i do recall slowdown in that one though

[BladeJunker]

I was actually thinking 3D sprites anyway. But still those textures are very low detail the jag COULD handle it

Also SKYHAMMER is another game..... i do recall slowdown in that one though

Oh sure the stage is just a subdivided cube with a big tile bitmap on it, nothing too out of the range of Jaguar hardware. That's kind of what made me shift thinking to prerendered sprites, the frame rate being so low on PS1 and N64. You really want it fast and snappy for this game.

Edited April 17, 2016 by BladeJunker

[sd32]

Oh sure the stage is just a subdivided cube with a big tile bitmap on it, nothing too out of the range of Jaguar hardware. That's kind of what made me shift thinking to prerendered sprites, the frame rate being so low on PS1 and N64. You really want it fast and snappy for this game.

Yeah, lets forget about the ugly, unnecessary polygonal graphics of Robotron 64. I would also go for clean and fast 2d, with some cool effects (a bit of transparency and lightning effects, some sprite scaling) here and there. Lets not sacrifice the classic gameplay for the ugly polygons of Robotron 64.

[BladeJunker]

Yeah, lets forget about the ugly, unnecessary polygonal graphics of Robotron 64. I would also go for clean and fast 2d, with some cool effects (a bit of transparency and lightning effects, some sprite scaling) here and there. Lets not sacrifice the classic gameplay for the ugly polygons of Robotron 64.

Well I'm pretty good at low poly modeling but even my best efforts would be lower in poly count than Robotron 64 and probably look something like The Sentinel.

Early 3D is a tough sale these days in retro as even PS1 is often rejected even at the peak of its quality standard, bugs me some because good work is called bad just by virtue of being low res.

I think good effects are possible, lighting sounds good, maybe some of those effects used in Tempest 2000 too. Pretty good color depth, I'm sure the Jaguar could easily surpass Donkey Kong Country in 3D sprite quality.

 

Although I think the technique of static background rendering with only updating moving units has promise on systems like the Jaguar. Been pushing for games like Twinsen/Little Big Adventure being ported to Jaguar, 3DO, and 32X.

 

[sd32]

Well I'm pretty good at low poly modeling but even my best efforts would be lower in poly count than Robotron 64 and probably look something like The Sentinel.

Early 3D is a tough sale these days in retro as even PS1 is often rejected even at the peak of its quality standard, bugs me some because good work is called bad just by virtue of being low res.

I think good effects are possible, lighting sounds good, maybe some of those effects used in Tempest 2000 too. Pretty good color depth, I'm sure the Jaguar could easily surpass Donkey Kong Country in 3D sprite quality.

 

Although I think the technique of static background rendering with only updating moving units has promise on systems like the Jaguar. Been pushing for games like Twinsen/Little Big Adventure being ported to Jaguar, 3DO, and 32X.

 

 

I have no issue playing early 3d games, i actually play more stuff on my PS1/Sat/N64, than the newer systems i own PS2/DC/GC. Right now i am on a kart racing game mood, and the PS1 gen seems to be the best for kart racing games. I still think the PS1 Crash Team Racing and Speed Punks look amazing, and love the mostly gouraud shadded look of Diddy Kong Racing on N64, low frame rate and all.

 

Its just that if there was a version of Robotron for the Jaguar, i would rather have a prettier version of the original, rather than a port of Robotron 64. But hey, if it was actually going to happen and someone would actually port the later to the Jag, i would support it too. A new release is a new release, hehe.

[Austin]

FML.

[skip]

In any event, i will likely have to be the one to port these as nobody here seems to think they are worthy canidates. It's fine though, im trying to learn assembly now. I would also like to try and remake demon attack and food fight. I think those games were really fun and would love to replay them on the jag. I have some ideas on how to update the look of the existing food fight arcade sprites.

Why not start with Raptor Basic + ??

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

Why not start with Raptor Basic + ??

Raptor Basic + is what im going to try to use for the project however i have a lot to learn. Im thinking of going with the classic overhead view and 3D rendered sprites of the N64 models and textures. Im also thinking of making the name special for the Jaguar. On PS1 the game was called Robotron X on N64 it was called Robotron 64.

Here are the names im considering:

Jagotron 64

Robotron 64 Bit

Jagtron 64

Robotron X Jaguar Edition

 

Jagtron. 64 is the one im leaning towards

Edited April 18, 2016 by Jeffrey_Bones

[+CyranoJ]

Jagtron. 64 is the one im leaning towards

 

Always important to get the name right first

[BladeJunker]

FML.

You okay buddy, you want some McDonald's?

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

His Jag CD unit just starting acting up on him. The whole console was rocking side to side like an old washer or broken dryer. Spit his copy of primal rage right out in the air. Then the lid started moving up and down like the mouth gestures from pee wees play house and it said "why you no want Robotron? Jaguar want robotron NOW!" or maybe he just needs a happy meal from McDonald's

[Atlantis]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FML

Just wonder who is the light house keeper here?

[BladeJunker]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=FML

 

Just wonder who is the light house keeper here?

My query still holds to Austin, even with definition I need more because 3 uppercase letters says very little. Even with this definition I don't get it. What can I say, there is no light house keeper. Without context I can't make sense of this, I thought he was sad.

[Atlantis]

It might be a dreamers' corner + DOOR FRAME! kind of thing...

I myself WOULD like to program som nice games for y'all!... but I have no skills, but... the thought is what counts... right?

Still waiting for DOOM 3, but maybe the months are over at this point... too late, so to speak.

Lots of stuff has happened in just one year. Some members have been here for many years ans seen it all looped. Might get sad.

[BladeJunker]

It might be a dreamers' corner + DOOR FRAME! kind of thing...

I myself WOULD like to program som nice games for y'all!... but I have no skills, but... the thought is what counts... right?

 

Still waiting for DOOM 3, but maybe the months are over at this point... too late, so to speak.

 

Lots of stuff has happened in just one year. Some members have been here for many years ans seen it all looped. Might get sad.

Well they should probably just skip the thread, sounds like they already know what they are going to find. Thanks for the help, short hand isn't my forte.

 

"If I haven't seen it, its new to me."

 

Things take time, always do, and even if nothing happens it scratches an itch even if its just an answer to what something would be if it existed on [blank] platform. I think beyond the obvious of Robotron 64 ported, if it sucks how can it be made better. I don't just stop at Robotron 64 sucks, everybody stop talking about it.

 

This is just the general Jaguar forum, I figure as long as we keep our stupid ass ideas out of the Programming section that is fair compromise. People with real skills can ignore, laugh at stuff, or use scraps of ideas as they see fit. Now I bite my tongue since I really don't want this to go beyond 3 people.

[WAVE 1 GAMES]

Well they should probably just skip the thread, sounds like they already know what they are going to find. Thanks for the help, short hand isn't my forte.

 

"If I haven't seen it, its new to me."

 

Things take time, always do, and even if nothing happens it scratches an itch even if its just an answer to what something would be if it existed on [blank] platform. I think beyond the obvious of Robotron 64 ported, if it sucks how can it be made better. I don't just stop at Robotron 64 sucks, everybody stop talking about it.

 

This is just the general Jaguar forum, I figure as long as we keep our stupid ass ideas out of the Programming section that is fair compromise. People with real skills can ignore, laugh at stuff, or use scraps of ideas as they see fit. Now I bite my tongue since I really don't want this to go beyond 3 people.

Actually i probably could pull this game off. Thats what I aim to do anyway. Right now its just a concept though, like you say.

Ive done some pretty cool stuff for the PC. I made Diddys Kong Quest 3D, Sonic Xtreme Returns and of course my current project RETROPIA. I think theres a bit of a learning curve for programming for the jag but im confident its something i can handle. (I think) i may start with converting the open source version of Jungle Jag into Crazy Kong Country. An off brand version of DKC and a nod towards the old arcade rip off Crazy Kong. Ive already started doing graphics for that. (At work now so. Will show that later) but yeah i was thinking of doing that first to kind of get a feel for programming on the Jag and then port Robotron. Either way Im going to make something for the Jag. I really want to port my game RETROPIA, but im affraid that the Jag wont be able to handle it and it may be way to hard to even try (You can see more info on Retropia in the homebrew section.)

[BladeJunker]

Yeah just a concept, we're all just brainstorming here.

You certainly get the basics of the level of 3D graphics this kind of hardware can do, world shell as polygons and 3D sprites to fill them with life. The Jaguar is like the 3DO and 32X when it comes to the misunderstanding of the 3D games it can do, they aren't Saturn or PS1 but they can do a heck of lot more than a Super FX chip.

Diddys Kong Quest 3D looks cool, reminds me of Bug! on the Saturn. I think that 3D sprites definitely please more eyes than polygons especially with characters, like an angular column goes unnoticed but an angular character is tough for modern eyes which I think sd32 is right about.

Mostly in Japanese Saturn games the graphics have aged better since they were more ambiguous about 3D and mixed in more sprites. I don't remember anyone demanding polygons on consoles other than marketing people in NA, I guess there was some stigma on PC games in using sprites once accelerator cards came around.

I like Sonic Xtreme Returns, much closer to the Beta I liked than other attempts, never liked the direction Sonic Mars took.

I like the concept but it just doesn't fit for Sonic.

Jungle Jag is a good title, some say it doesn't matter but Ruiner Pinball is much better than its terrible title suggests. Crazy Kong heh, a month ago I came across that one in a refresher on 80s arcade games. Sounds like a good project to start out with to try Jag programming, you're familiar with the game and it is less dense with objects. Bless you for trying the Jaguar, needs more programmers and more 3D games too. Pace yourself and ignore the demanding types like me.

Yeah I don't think RETROPIA would work on Jaguar without cutbacks. Your drawing distance is quite high despite the cubic nature of the landscape, mostly without hardware texture perspective correction you have to subdivide the floor mesh a lot to prevent warping.

Your horizon looks cool but as is the clipping distance would be like Cybermorph short, a lot of stuff wouldn't be visible much of the time. If you switched to a 3/4 overhead view locked to a 45 degree pitch the camera would mask the short drawing distance. The camera would basically pan in a 2D sort of way kind of like Metal Gear Solid did sometimes. Could probably still zoom the camera, more in than out.