A new Commodore 64 computer and gaming handheld are coming via Indiegogo

[Newsdee]

French has the same expression as the Swedish one: "one should not sell the bear's hide before he has killed it".

 

The bottom of this page has the same expression in various languages:

 

http://bit.ly/1SYRYjo

 

Interestingly the Arabic version warns buyers (Don't buy fish that is still out at sea, but wait until it's been fished), and the Walloon version is the most colorful (you should not sell the egg that is still up the chicken's ass)

Edited April 20, 2016 by Newsdee

[carlsson]

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bear_and_the_Travelers

 

For that matter, there are a little over 25 games on the C64 that have to do with bears.

 

Anyway, they updated the technical specs again. Now it says they'll use an ARM Cortex SoC, which as far as I understand is closer to a RPi than a FPGA design.

Edited April 20, 2016 by carlsson

[Bill Loguidice]

From Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/The64computer/posts/1536267333345169):

 

"

Update 20th April 2016

We’ve had so many requests for the gory technical details, that we just couldn’t refuse to send out an update!

At the core of THE 64 is a low cost, high power ARM Cortex SoC, which provides all the modern interfaces demanded by today’s consumers. This has clear advantages for the consumer. Creating a software/hardware hybrid machine allows THE 64 to be both affordable and flexible, and delivers a product that can expand to meet users future needs. A pure hardware implementation, on the other hand, fixes the specification at design time, and we feel that this is too limiting a solution and a substantial risk. Gate arrays are too costly to give an economic solution.

We are huge fans of the Commodore 64, and our dream is to make THE 64 affordable and attractive to all users, new and old. The 64 will be available again for the first time in 25 years. We are committed to the 64 and open source community, and will be releasing as much as we can as open source to empower the community to help steer the future direction of THE 64. You just can’t beat passion!

When we created the C64DTV we faced similar challenges. Creating Commodore hardware that will accurately run the BIOS and software is a challenge, whether that’s a custom ASIC or an off the shelf programmable FPGA, it requires a considerable amount of time, effort and resources. And we learned from that. We can improve on the limited expandability of the C64DTV!

We’re doing other things around THE 64 in addition to launching a new set of machines, such as licensing some of the best C64 programming books ever created. These will come out in both paperback and eBook formats. We are creating matching joysticks, cartridge converters to allow old original C64 cartridges to work with the new machine, potentially original joystick converters if the demand is there, and so on. We want to create the perfect experience for old and new fans alike.

That’s without some of the classic and specially commissioned all-new games we will be releasing for THE 64 consoles. Finally, we are planning a video interview between Darren Melbourne and gaming legend Jon Hare talking about THE 64 in the coming weeks. Watch this space!

Thanks from THE 64 team!

"

Again, heavy on promises that are of questionable veracity.

[TPA5]

 

Many in this thread (myself included) are jaded by crowd funding in general. This disillusionment is not the direct result of the RVGS / Chameleon but instead from many funded projects that have not delivered. There simply isn't enough (if any) accountability.

 

The RVGS / Chameleon is now the poster child for overambitious crowd funded projects making lofty promises without the slightest chance of delivery, but that doesn't mean the skepticism about crowd funding is undeserved.

 

Repeating what I said pages ago, I am still waiting for several funded projects to deliver on their pre-orders. These weren't just funding perks, these are actual pre-orders made after the projects were fully funded. My attitude is based on my experiences in not receiving a single product that was crowd funded. For each of the glorified successes like the Pebble Watch, there are thousands of phantom products that were funded. Even if we aren't going to get our money back, at least some of those behind the campaigns should face fraud charges and be rewarded with a criminal record.

 

^^Pretty much this^^.

 

This is a cool concept, in fact I really like the idea in general (well, maybe not for the portable but that's merely personal preference). If this was a product that was ready to go and you could buy them from a website, I would feel differently. Heck, even if at the very least they had a 100% working machine and just needed some pre-orders to get production moving I would feel more positive about it. However when people come hands held out begging for my money and they don't have anything concrete to show for it yet, I am wary at best. It is not that difficult to slap together some renders and make a video.

 

It's possible these guys are good people who have a cool idea and want to see it come to life. I simply feel that so far they haven't done enough on their end to appear trustworthy, thus I wouldn't hand over my dollars yet.

[Keatah]

I see some RetroVGS flavor in this project. So far lots of hype and nothing real to show.

[SoulBlazer]

A portable C64 sounds cool, but there are ways of already playing C64 games on the go. Now, if this was a two in one device -- something that was small and portable and had a built in screen AND allowed you to hook up a keyboard, joystick, and TV/monitor for home playing -- I'd be all over that, even up to the price of $150.

[leods]

Yep, "low cost, high power ARM Cortex SoC". confirmed

 

So if things go south, or if they just want to, they can ask some china factory to make the keyboard with enclosure and slap a pi in there. In a certain way maybe that's actually the best solution, since it would make it really open and easily moddable.

 

Still, 100 bucks for a keyboard plus a couple interface PCBs is damned expensive.

 

The handheld is the worse, since it's something anyone can get right now. The only difference is, if you buy an unrelated android handheld it won't be OFFICIALY unrelated to the commodore 64.

 

Why does indiegogo let people use their platform to pre-order things? Why is there a goal if reaching that goal doesn't mean anything? Why would anyone donate to this, ever? They have 44k right now. Oh boy...

 

This is what happens when peope pull a retro VGS but aren't complete morons. 44k to burn in booze and sluts. Or if they're super nice, they take only 15k and acctually deliver some quickly put together generic crap to their awesome backers who will finally make emulating C64 on ARM a reality.

Edited April 21, 2016 by leods

[carlsson]

Well, those who backed in order to get real hardware, should also get it so at least a part of the money they bring in must go into buying Pis and enclosures.

[leods]

PAt and Ian talking about this. Pretty good advertising for the system. Ian even says it's not emulation, even though it is emulation.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PUfbnMcZgc

[AtarinDave]

Pat the NES Punk did a podcast on this.

 

 

They seem interested in this stuff.

Edited April 27, 2016 by AtarinDave

[Kokovec69]

I ended up pre-ordering a keyboard unit and a joystick even though I know that at its heart this device is basically an emulator.

I'm not what anyone would call a dedicated collector of retro stuff but I do own a few of the classic consoles (Vectrex, C64, Vic 20, KIM-1 (that I've owned since the 70's).

My "collection" also includes a few dedicated systems including the DTV64, various Flashback consoles (like an FB2 I modded myself) and various other items.

I'm also a tinkerer of sorts. I've built hardware for many of the above mentioned platforms as well as a homemade portable SID player (embedded 6510 emulator with a swinsid), a faithfully emulated 1541 SDCard drive, and other stuff I've built over the years.

I even built my own retro Pi unit that I fitted inside a 64C case that I got from a Kickstarter campaign: (https://www.flickr.com/photos/134750065@N07/).

 

The point is that I don't really consider myself a novice to the retro scene and yet I still wanted to purchase one of these "sham" units.

Part of me wants it because its a new shiny thing. Part of me wants it because I want to support the community and encourage more people to come out with new stuff in the spirit of keeping my childhood alive.

Maybe I'm throwing my money away but I would enjoy owning it and I suspect the others backing this campaign feel the same way in some regard.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Kokovec69

[carlsson]

Yeah, eventually a unit like this one might have the same novelty value as a Web.It, not that I can remember it going for a lot.

[Bill Loguidice]

I ended up pre-ordering a keyboard unit and a joystick even though I know that at its heart this device is basically an emulator.

 

<snip>

 

The point is that I don't really consider myself a novice to the retro scene and yet I still wanted to purchase one of these "sham" units.

Part of me wants it because its a new shiny thing. Part of me wants it because I want to support the community and encourage more people to come out with new stuff in the spirit of keeping my childhood alive.

Maybe I'm throwing my money away but I would enjoy owning it and I suspect the others backing this campaign feel the same way in some regard.

 

If it was an actual thing, I think almost all of us in this thread would happily support it. Since it's still not an actual defined product with actual working prototypes, it's like giving money to someone for their cool idea despite having concerns they'd have any ability to execute it.

[Kokovec69]

Fair enough.

I completely understand where everyone is coming from.

Perhaps I'm a bit gullible in this case but it makes for an interesting story if the thing ever materializes in the real world.

 

I got this email today. Not sure what it means.

 

The ‘THE 64 - Computer and Handheld Console’ team just posted:

1 new Announcement:

Good news for all backers!

[Michał Taszycki](https://twitter.com/mehowte) a C64 enthusiast himself, has donated nine video tutorials on programming the Commodore 64 for all backers.

After the project is funded, all backers will receive the [64Bites - Season 1 "From BASIC to Assembly"](http://64bites.com/seasons/001-from-basic-to-as...) for free and a 50% discount for the next season. Season 1 is normally worth $19.99!

Thank you Michal!

Reply directly to this email to respond to the campaign owner,THE 64. Visit the campaign page to view all comments and updates for this project.

Help spread the word about the campaign!

[cimerians]

Season 1, 50% discount for Season 2? Um...what?

 

I think that's a whole seperate optional thing.

 

It seems they have $60K in the bank currently which they can easily take and disappear with.....I think Indiegogo gets a higher percentage with flexible funding though, but still.

[leods]

Fair enough.

I completely understand where everyone is coming from.

Perhaps I'm a bit gullible in this case but it makes for an interesting story if the thing ever materializes in the real world.

 

I got this email today. Not sure what it means.

 

The ‘THE 64 - Computer and Handheld Console’ team just posted:

1 new Announcement:

Good news for all backers!

[Michał Taszycki](https://twitter.com/mehowte) a C64 enthusiast himself, has donated nine video tutorials on programming the Commodore 64 for all backers.

After the project is funded, all backers will receive the [64Bites - Season 1 "From BASIC to Assembly"](http://64bites.com/seasons/001-from-basic-to-as...) for free and a 50% discount for the next season. Season 1 is normally worth $19.99!

Thank you Michal!

Reply directly to this email to respond to the campaign owner,THE 64. Visit the campaign page to view all comments and updates for this project.

Help spread the word about the campaign!

To me program for an emulator seems quite silly. You can learn with Pascal, or whatever other languange. Even Basic and assembly on your PC...

 

Am I missing somehting? Just bcause people learned to program for the commodore 64 back in the day, because that way the computer they used to have, why should people to that now?

[galax]

To me program for an emulator seems quite silly. You can learn with Pascal, or whatever other languange. Even Basic and assembly on your PC...

 

Am I missing somehting? Just bcause people learned to program for the commodore 64 back in the day, because that way the computer they used to have, why should people to that now?

 

I think for a lot of people it's something that they meant to do at the time and never got around to. A bit like finishing off a project that they started 30 years ago. I don't think these people want to learn a practical programming language, they are just doing it for enjoyment. I can't imagine paying for tutorials when there is so much great material available online for free though.

[Keatah]

It seems mostly about nostalgia and going back in time. Because, otherwise, you could do the same thing with an emulator and a .pdf scan of the manuals.

 

As far as being practical with real-life purpose? Anything done on classic computing is probably going to be niche and highly specific. I wrote an Applesoft Basic program on an Apple II to generate a script that would mirror a website. It was a one-time deal. And worked perfectly.

 

IDK. When you compare this project to a real C64, you're still going to be making concessions and accommodating differences in how they operate. Not unlike that of an emulator. How much? We'll know if and when they produce the final product.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Keatah

[carlsson]

I think it is a tutorial how to make programs for the Commodore 64, not how to become a programmer in general, using a C64 as your programming platform. There is a major difference there. However, I wonder how many of those backing THE 64 have the ambition to become C64 programmers, unless they already were or at least have tried to before.

 

It is a bit like if I'm backing a new, handheld microwave oven and as a thanks, I get a free cooking book. Yes, it may come handy but perhaps I'm only planning to use the microwave oven to heat my frozen pizzas and won't touch the cooking book.

[Kokovec69]

Ya, I'm not sure who would need to pay for a tutorial when you can find all you need online.

All I know I today's software engineers are so abstracted from the underlying silicone that perhaps it can be fun to design an application at that level.

[carlsson]

If it is a well done course, I don't see why people would not be able to charge for it. There is a lot of material online for free, but most of it is reference material, not so much educational on a level that most people of today would pick up instantly.

[Keatah]

Most of the material online, today, is what we had back in the 70's and 80's. If anyone is sufficiently motivated they will seek out the books and tutorials and just learn from there.

[Willsy]

The company behind this started in August 2015, Darren Melbourne was made a director in March, and then all the other directors resigned: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09745704/officers

 

http://the64.computer/about/ Copyright © 2016 Retro Games Ltd, Knaresborough, North Yorkshire, Company Number 09745704

 

Two of the directors (Chris Smith and the founder Paul Andrews) were involved in the ZX Vega, and just resigned from that company too: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08831435/officers

 

Chris Smith and Paul Andrews' names have been retroactively removed from last year's Vega Indiegogo project page (how is that even allowed?)

 

Before: https://web.archive.org/web/20151016054200/https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sinclair-zx-spectrum-vega#/

 

 

After: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sinclair-zx-spectrum-vega

 

 

Not sure what's going on there really, wouldn't give any of them any of my money right now.

This is PURE speculation, but I wouldn't mind a small wager that their resignation is something to do with this: http://www.specnext.com/

[Raticon]

Apologies in advance for this Spectrum-related rant, but it has some relevance for the THE64-discussion as well.

Yeah, the SpecNext is basically riding on the wave of people who wanted the Vega to be a "true" computer with keyboard and everything, and the ones who wanted the "Recreated ZX Spectrum" to be more than just a bluetooth keyboard + app combo. It created something of a minor schism in these fanbases.

Remember that there were 2 "Spectrum" units released at about the exact same time with one ("Vega") being a handheld controller-type device plugged into a TV and power supply, and the other one ("Recreated ZX Spectrum") being a bluetooth keyboard by itself that needed a phone or tablet with apps to run the software.
Needless to say, both devices have their fanbases and issues. The Vega has the software and is very user friendly while obviously lacking a keyboard that many games need, while the Bluetooth-Spectrum has the right feeling and formfactor while being quite fussy to use with it being app-based for it's core functions, and some people has doubts of how future-proof such a solution is etc.

The "schism" i mentioned came firstly from people in the Vega camp who (basically) wanted the next version to be a fully fledged keyboard unit with all the Vega functionality, but they got the Vega+ handheld instead which is basically a Vega but with it's own screen and external USB keyboard support, which made some people disappointed and allegedly made some members of the team jump ship for different reasons. There has been all kinds of drama with the remaining team editing out the names of the former members from the Indiegogo-page, the webpage etc.

The Recreated Spectrum on the other hand hasn't seen any successor from ELITE systems (the dudes behind it) just yet, and the latest news on their webpage is from their Spectrum launch last year. One might presume they are sticking with their original idea and will continue developing the app, at least for a while.
I don't think i have to mention that these developments are well on their way to absolutely saturate the already quite slim and niche ZX Spectrum market. There are as of now 3 systems on the market with the Vega, Vega+ and Recreated ZX Spectrum (a.k.a Bluetooth Spectrum), and perhaps the SpecNext arriving in a near future.

 

I believe the guys behind the THE64 (that sounds wrong?) has had their eyeballs on these developments for some time now. Watching the Spectrum-community you can see people craving a true keyboard-unit and people craving a handheld, with neither of the existing actors doing both at the same time and leaving some customers going for the other camp.

The guys behind the THE64 (again, "the the" sounds wrong) probably see their opportunity to bag the profits from both camps instead of selecting 1 unit and let someone else capitalize on the other when the inevitable crowd of "Why no handheld unit / keyboard unit?" comes around.

[Raticon]

Oh, they are also at 50% funding now at about $75.000 with 11 days left to go, and most of the major buzz from the media has died off by now.

They have quite the uphill struggle in front of them if they want all 150k, but being flexible funding they will keep what they raise anyway and might choose to opt out one of the devices, like the handheld for example

Edited May 9, 2016 by Raticon