SainT Posted June 21, 2017 Author Share Posted June 21, 2017 Pretty sure that he isn't putting anyone down on a list for anything yet. The last few posts gave the impression that some people may think this. Unless I'm mistaken, he's currently going through the Neo Geo Pocket list before starting this one up. Just didn't wanna see this thread turn into a bunch of "put me down for one" posts when no list is being made, plus you might miss out when one actually is. If I am missing out on it, please let me know, and put me down for one Yeah, I wont be starting and pre-order stuff until the cart is working and mostly complete. The shipping of LynxSD and NGPSD will continue in parallel with Jag development. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goochman Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 People, nobody cares at this point if you want one and there is no preorder list. SainT clearly states this in the first post which you all need to read. "There are no pre-order lists or anything like that, and I will ask for posts relating to this to be removed as it's just way too early. However if anyone wants to ask any questions, or if I have any progress updates, this thread is a good place for them." Can I be first on the list to remove from the list list? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hastor Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 Yeah it's just confusing to me when people start asking to be put on a list. I start wondering if I missed something, or if news was posted somewhere besides here. It also starts a string of others assuming the same and posting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+orpheuswaking Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 The Jaguar forum is all about the lists, real or imagined. In fact I need to be placed on that one list for the thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigusschmuck Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 As long as it doesn't cost a mortgage payment I'll be happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Dangerous Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 SainT, any picture updates to get us excited? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted June 30, 2017 Author Share Posted June 30, 2017 SainT, any picture updates to get us excited? Not yet, but hopefully wont be toooo long. I've pretty much finished the first pass on the cartridge, now I actually need to create a programmer type board as well. I've got some Jag cart connectors here, so I just need to come up with a similar thing as I did for the NeoGeo Pocket to let me read and write the cart for programming the boot ROM and debugging it. It's a bit frustrating using surface mount flash chips as it's not easy to program them off the board. You can do it once with a ZIF adapter, but once its soldered on there, that's it. So hence I need to come up with a programmer as well so I can actually iterate a bit and get the cart hardware working enough to allow remote development over USB through the cart itself. Then things become much easier. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judas-Prime Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Maybe mount a ZIF adapter to your cart, that way you can remove the chip for iteration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgy Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 69 @SainT - I am a long time lurker here also. Must say, well done on the flash carts you have designed & produced - all way over my head. I can just follow other people's electrical project and make them. I am liking the Jag features that you mentioned in your NeoGeo Pocket video. I just added a 50/60Hz switch to my PAL Jag at the weekend ready for this Hopefully the finished flash carts will be shipped from your location, then I don't have a long postage wait Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UHATEIT Posted July 4, 2017 Share Posted July 4, 2017 I'm new to the forum but been lurking for years. I'm an original Jaguar owner since 1995 and am very interested in this sd card unit! I see you want to get caught up on the Lynx shipments before these will get worked on. Curious tho, do you estimate the cost to be about the same as the LYNX unit or drastically more expensive? Also curious what format you'd be expecting this unit to accept for ROMs. Everything I have is either .j64 or .jag for the virtual Jaguar and was curious if these are likely going to accept and convert those formats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) The Jag is being worked on right this minute. I have two other carts, the Lynx and NeoGeo Pocket carts which are finished and shipping (when I have them, waiting on new Lynx PCB's atm), so once a cart is finished and shipping I move onto the next. The Jag isn't far off getting the first PCB's made now for testing. The Jag cart is way more complicated and will be a fair bit more expensive to make, so its likely to be around the £100 mark I *think*. This will be up in the air until I've actually got everything nailed down. I will support all ROM / executable formats for the jag and also should support CD games too. Edited October 25, 2019 by SainT 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LianneJaguar64 Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 It'd be great to have this literally just to play Battlesphere Gold... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 The Jag is being worked on right this minute. I have two other carts, the Lynx SD and NeoGeo Pocket SD which are finished and shipping (when I have them, waiting on new Lynx PCB's atm), so once a cart is finished and shipping I move onto the next. The Jag isn't far off getting the first PCB's made now for testing. Does this mean I need to start working on the menu? 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Yar Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 The Jag is being worked on right this minute. I have two other carts, the Lynx SD and NeoGeo Pocket SD which are finished and shipping (when I have them, waiting on new Lynx PCB's atm), so once a cart is finished and shipping I move onto the next. The Jag isn't far off getting the first PCB's made now for testing. The Jag cart is way more complicated and will be a fair bit more expensive to make, so its likely to be around the £100 mark I *think*. This will be up in the air until I've actually got everything nailed down. I will support all ROM / executable formats for the jag and also should support CD games too. It's been about 15 years since I've last played through BattleMorph. When I heard about this project a year ago, I bought a working Jaguar in anticipation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leech Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 It'd be great to have this literally just to play Battlesphere Gold... Sad but true. I have been slowly but surely filing in the holes in my Jaguar collection. Recently added Space Ace and Dragon's Lair, then came to see right afterward that they released Dragon's Lair for Linux and are planning on releasing part 2 and Space Ace as soon as they get all the engine bugs fixed out of that one. I wonder if anyone could 'port' the second Dragon's Lair to the Jag by using whatever engine they used for the other two games? Sorry, that's a bit off-topic, totally looking forward to this so that I won't have to swap cartridges and move things around. I already had to resolder some wires on the JagCD because I somehow disconnected them while trying to get my new I-War cartridge to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UHATEIT Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 The Jag is being worked on right this minute. I have two other carts, the Lynx SD and NeoGeo Pocket SD which are finished and shipping (when I have them, waiting on new Lynx PCB's atm), so once a cart is finished and shipping I move onto the next. The Jag isn't far off getting the first PCB's made now for testing. The Jag cart is way more complicated and will be a fair bit more expensive to make, so its likely to be around the £100 mark I *think*. This will be up in the air until I've actually got everything nailed down. I will support all ROM / executable formats for the jag and also should support CD games too. That kind of what I was gathering is that it would run quite a bit more. Hopefully when you have them going you'll be able to ship to the USA! I do know you aren't taking a waiting list, so I guess I'll have to keep checking this page daily/weekly to get the notice that it is officially for sale so I can try and be up towards the top! Since you are currently working on it for testing, any clue on a potential ETA? Likely a lot of things will come into play, but I was curious if we might be thinking in the next 1-2 months or longer out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 Does this mean I need to start working on the menu? Never too early to start... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 That kind of what I was gathering is that it would run quite a bit more. Hopefully when you have them going you'll be able to ship to the USA! I do know you aren't taking a waiting list, so I guess I'll have to keep checking this page daily/weekly to get the notice that it is officially for sale so I can try and be up towards the top! Since you are currently working on it for testing, any clue on a potential ETA? Likely a lot of things will come into play, but I was curious if we might be thinking in the next 1-2 months or longer out? No idea on ETA yet to be honest, there's quite a bit of complex stuff going on in this one, so I really have no idea yet! I pretty much finished up the cartridge programmer side of things today, just got one change to make then that's done. Then I'll take another pass over the cart to check everything on that (I know there's a couple of things to fix up) then I can finally get some PCB's made up. Then comes the fun part of getting stuff working. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SainT Posted July 5, 2017 Author Share Posted July 5, 2017 (edited) Someone just pointed out this article (http://db-electronics.ca/2017/07/05/the-dangers-of-3-3v-flash-in-retro-consoles/) about poorly designed flash carts using 3.3v flash in 5v systems. I'm actually really surprised at how dodgy some of the more popular flash carts seem to be! In my mind it's inexcusable not to do things properly using voltage translators in one form or another where appropriate. Anyway, I just wanted to clarify the Jag cart design is chock full of level shifters. All the magic happens at 3.3v with the CPLD, RAM and FLASH but the interface to the Jag's 5v bus is entirely through level shifters. There's bloody loads of the buggers! Must be 6 At least I think. I'll post a pic when I get the first cart built up! Edited October 25, 2019 by SainT 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosquare Posted July 5, 2017 Share Posted July 5, 2017 That's good to hear. I always felt the series resistor "trick" was an unreliable hack, and that it had no place in something like the Everdrive. (The Jagtopus uses level shifters.) Unfortunately there's plenty of dodgy homebrew electronics, either out of a simple lack of experience, or to save money. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Dunno, it may not be as clear cut. If all the control signals and address bus signals go thru the FPGA then the 100 ohm is ok (as stated by the Altera docs). If I were to make my own flash cart I would have all signals go thru the FPGA (all of them) so that I have a chance to do whatever processing I want on them, including letting them pass thru (but now at the lower output voltage). I do not know if that is also Krikzz design so I will not defend it without more details. But continuing the speculation that leaves us with the data bus signals, during gameplay the flash chip is the one driving the databus so no issue there if it does it directly, during flashing it depends on how it is done, if it's done via the console databus then there's overvoltage but if it is instead done FPGA side then again no tangible issue. Granted using voltage-converters/level-shifters is the safest way to go it may turn out not to be as bad as the article implies or at least it may vary greatly by flash cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerosquare Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 It doesn't look like it, at least on some of the boards pictured. For example, the Master Everdrive: By following the tracks, it's pretty clear the Flash memory is connected directly to the cartridge pads. And it appears there aren't even 100 ohms resistors, just 0 ohm jumpers (!) Using the FPGA as a buffer is nice in theory, but in practice it uses a lot of I/O pins, which are in short supply on non-BGA FPGAs. So unless you really need it, it's probably not a good idea. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 It's hard to say how much/many pins go direct. In the MasterED I expect the data bus to be direct (unclear if in parallel to the FPGA for programming reasons or if the programming has the databus driven by the console, I simply do not know), I also expect some of the address bus to be direct (anything that does not vary between mappers can logically be connected directly although it would electrically require a level-shifter) For sure there's some of them connected that could spell some level of trouble but again I don't think it is all 100% bad. (I also believe some carts are worse than other) Here: https://www.micron.com/~/media/documents/products/data-sheet/nor-flash/parallel/m29w/m29w160e.pdf (page8) we can see that in MasterED at least the DQ signals are direct connect, and a few of the A signals also are direct connect (likely a portion of the low address bits) so there's that. EDIT: also the MaxII 240 [the CPLD in use on the MasterED] can have up to 80io pins ... I believe that would be enough for the limited data bus and address bus of the master system (and the extra 6 or 7 control signals) but I see your point that IOs are at a premium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonma Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Someone just pointed out this article (http://db-electronics.ca/2017/07/05/the-dangers-of-3-3v-flash-in-retro-consoles/) about poorly designed flash carts using 3.3v flash in 5v systems. I'm actually really surprised at how dodgy some of the more popular flash carts seem to be! In my mind it's inexcusable not to do things properly using voltage translators in one form or another where appropriate. Anyway, I just wanted to clarify the Jag SD design is chock full of level shifters. All the magic happens at 3.3v with the CPLD, RAM and FLASH but the interface to the Jag's 5v bus is entirely through level shifters. There's bloody loads of the buggers! Must be 6 At least I think. I'll post a pic when I get the first cart built up! I have no doubt about it. Good work 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hastor Posted July 6, 2017 Share Posted July 6, 2017 Glad to see it is being done properly. That said, I have some version of every everdrive (except the SNES as I went with SD2SNES), and unless someone offers a better alternative, I'll keep using them to access ROMs on original hardware, even if there is a little bit of a risk. So far so good, though I know on that page that one of the 'standard excuses' is that it has been working fine without an issue, but could still cause something going forward. I'd rather use my master system with an everdrive to have it die in a few years than not experience that at all. I've yet to hear of any specific systems killed by everdrives (and as someone who use to soft-mod original Xboxes, I know that any system that dies, even years later, will be blamed on the modder). Not to be too off-topic here, but really glad to see that this one will be done correctly and safely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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