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SainT

Upcoming Jaguar Game Drive Cartridge

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I am a lucky holder of one of Atari Jaguar's cartridges. It is a spectacular product, and I assure you that it is worthwhile to keep waiting to enjoy it. That is why it is necessary that all of us support the person who has dedicated so much time and effort in this project, we cannot pressure him since he does this because he wants to, because it is his passion, and his decision whether he wants to do it or not.


Saint, take a vacation, rest is essential to feel good, I know what I'm talking about, and when you're better, I hope that, for you as for all your followers, you can continue doing what you like. In life you have to try to be happy, and I want you to know that you have already made all the people who have been able to enjoy your things happy. I hope that in the future we can enjoy the incorporation of CD support, in addition to other game drives such as a future atari 7800 game drive.


A hug and I hope you feel better.

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On 11/6/2019 at 3:42 AM, g4r37h said:

This is really disappointing news.

I'm not sure why you didn't just extend the already existing delay to include sorting out a manufacturer instead of spooking your customers by creating the impression that you're having some kind of meltdown. Since people were already aware that they had to wait for the cart, extending that wait would hardly have been the end of the world. I'd imagine most customers wouldn't have given it a second thought.

 

Actions like this negatively impact a seller's credibility so... perhaps there were additional factors involved in forcing you to take such action. Whatever the case, I hope the project gets back on track soon.

You sound like your from that entitled brats group on fb....

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3 minutes ago, ultramecha said:

You sound like your from that entitled brats group on fb....

Let's focus on the Jaguar GD cart.  I've already removed him from AtariAge.

 

 ..Al

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31 minutes ago, Albert said:

Let's focus on the Jaguar GD cart.  I've already removed him from AtariAge.

 

 ..Al

It's a shame people can't just stay positive.  After all, it's just a hobby.  You know help, support, and learn from each other.

Edited by djones60
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5 minutes ago, djones60 said:

It's a shame people can't just stay positive.  After all, it's just a hobby.  You know help, support, and learn from each other.

You would think...

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As a long time owner of a Jaguar with only a handful of games, but several accessories (not the CD unfortunately), I'm really looking forward to seeing some of the homebrew and ports that I'll be able to play. I have an 8-bit Atari computer somewhere, though I left it boxed up when I moved out of my parents, and they claim it no longer exists, which is a shame. That was about 20 years ago. Then again they said the same about the PS2 I put a lot of work into, and I found it 8 years later in a cabinet behind a speaker...

 

SainT's physical and mental health is much more important than any of the above, but I'm very grateful that he shares his passion with us when he's up to it. Luckily the vast majority of the audience is supportive no matter what happens.

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On 11/7/2019 at 2:45 PM, kool kitty89 said:

 

"too much things"

...

well just 2 things:
The Jaguar Chipset was originally designed to operate at 40MHz. Its performance was revised downward when it was modified to work on the Jaguar console. Lower frequency, 16bits 68000 CPU interface instead of 32bits 68030 (and therefore 16bits also for the DSP since it shares the same interface), 24-bit address BUS instead of 32, less Bank memory and less Bank type (originally 128MB total address space: 2 Bank of ROMs 16MB each, 1 Bank of SRAM 32MB, and 2 BANK of DRAM 32MB each), no more Falcon mode, etc.

I do not know if we can get better mapping performance using ROM instead of DRAM (ROM to DRAM instead of DRAM to DRAM). In the Jaguar the external data bus is common to the whole system and there is no funnel as in the TT. So the data must first pass necessarily by TOM to be eventually shifted and replaced again on the BUS. On the other hand, I do not know if TOM is able to prepare the access to the DRAM (CAS/RAS lines) at the same time that it makes the accesses to the ROM and does the shift, and vice versa. In fact, I do not know if TOM is able to access the external 24bits address BUS at the same time as it accesses the CAS/RAS lines of DRAM (ROM to DRAM or DRAM to ROM). Internally yes (GPU local RAM to DRAM for example).

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17 hours ago, DEATH said:



I do not know if we can get better mapping performance using ROM instead of DRAM (ROM to DRAM instead of DRAM to DRAM). In the Jaguar the external data bus is common to the whole system and there is no funnel as in the TT. So the data must first pass necessarily by TOM to be eventually shifted and replaced again on the BUS. On the other hand, I do not know if TOM is able to prepare the access to the DRAM (CAS/RAS lines) at the same time that it makes the accesses to the ROM and does the shift, and vice versa. In fact, I do not know if TOM is able to access the external 24bits address BUS at the same time as it accesses the CAS/RAS lines of DRAM (ROM to DRAM or DRAM to ROM). Internally yes (GPU local RAM to DRAM for example).

TBH I suspect that slapping SRAM in a cart whilst it would be faster than a ROM cart isn't suddenly going to boost the performance of the Jag to unheard of levels.

IIRC, there is ONE bus, Main RAM, the BIOS, Cartridge and all the hardware sits on it.. so no clever cart ROM -> Main RAM dual bus copy action.
The cart bus is 32bit, so already 50% of the max throughput of Tom.

I think SainTs cart, whilst a thing of beauty and really useful, isn't designed or intended as use as a system accelerator... Huge extra capacity, and possibly slightly faster loading time for some cart games, and maybe even some extra new shiny dev toys down the line..  But its not going to turn the jag into something it's not.

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On 11/6/2019 at 2:03 PM, SainT said:

 

It's called burnout. Physical and mental stress over prolonged periods causes decision making to be impaired. Couple this with the fact there are some people in the "scene" (read back a few pages) out to deliberately cause others further stress and harm, and it eventually makes you wonder why on earth you bother doing these things. Trust me, it's not for the money -- if it were, I would never have even started. At that point in time I was quite happy to jack it all in, and very nearly did.

 

Sorry about the people bothering/threatening you and all the best for getting well!

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Take care of your health, SainT. Sometimes just taking a break from some project can give you a moment of pause that allows you to get a better perspective on how to tackle the situation.

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On 11/7/2019 at 10:05 AM, Karyyk said:

I just wish anyone that has anything negative to say would take a few steps back and try to gain some perspective before posting. 

That includes the defenders of saint in here who are very toxic as we'll see in response to my valid criticism that I'm about to make. 

I understand the burnout and don't have a problem with preorders being cancelled because life and health takes precedent, (cue all that to be ignored in the replies to me) but for people like me that rarely come back to this thread and only did so out of random curiosity to see around what number board had been sent.

Wouldn't it be nice and professional (hobbyist or not a not cheap product is being sold) to inform those in the pre-order list through the PayPal list or the db on your website.

Again, i have no problem with life taking priority over this or even the board ending up cancelled because of your more pressing priorities, i would be gutted, but a simple email once you know for sure would help so I can place another order.

You will have people buying that don't come to this website or go to your twatter and won't be informed.

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On 11/8/2019 at 3:13 PM, juanluma01 said:

I am a lucky holder of one of Atari Jaguar's cartridges. It is a spectacular product, and I assure you that it is worthwhile to keep waiting to enjoy it. That is why it is necessary that all of us support the person who has dedicated so much time and effort in this project, we cannot pressure him since he does this because he wants to, because it is his passion, and his decision whether he wants to do it or not.

How about you post a nice picture of your Jag with the cartridge in it? Would be cool to see it in a real life scenario!

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1 hour ago, Sbrann said:

 

Wouldn't it be nice and professional (hobbyist or not a not cheap product is being sold) to inform those in the pre-order list through the PayPal list or the db on your website.

 

 

Perfectly valid point, it's something I want to do. I don't have a simple way of doing this, however, and it takes time to implement features such as this.

 

The biggest issue for me is that I'm a single person doing a hundred different things. Unfortunately something has to give, and some of the things I consider less essential from my point of view, are perhaps more valued from a customers point of view.

 

As I say, it's very difficult as an individual having to deal with so many things at once, hence the reason I'm trying to resolve this by involving more people in the chain.

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I am always amazed at people who REALLY go all in for the super-negativity on the internet.  I often think they must not have any sense of themselves, do they read what they've written and have any self reflection?  I had a look at that German gentleman's website and most of what I read was just slagging off AtariAge.  Why? To what end? How much of his time does he devote to writing about something he hates?

 

Then that other guy moans about not getting a personal singing telegram with twice daily updates.  This is such a niche product, if your interested enough to want one surely you would want to look at this thread a bit more often and hey, maybe engage in some positive community building or at least follow Saint on Twitter.

 

Frankly I think Saint should be commended for his frequent updates here and openness regarding his own health.  He has no obligation to tell us all about his health but talking about things like this can help himself and others re:work/life balance.

 

Compare and contrast Saint's updates on progress on several projects over the last 3 years with NotReallyAtari on the Ataribox over about the same 3 years.

 

Saint wins easily.

 

Keep yer chin up mate, you are making a lot of people very happy, as for the negative super-creeps, Karma is a bitch!  

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Thanks, that's much appreciated! :)

 

I often think the open way I deal with things is a double edged sword, but it's just the way I am. It's nice to engage with people and try and explain at least a bit of what's going on in the background -- it helps a lot with motivation, as working entirely solo can be challenging in many ways.

 

I can understand people wanting more updates / communication. You're talking about people who are at the fringes of retro gaming here and don't know anything about the reality of small scale devices like these. They just see something for sale and expect the same service as ordering from Amazon prime. People are people, not ideal, but at least I can understand them.

 

The bit I really don't understand are those who actively try and destroy things. It seems it's partially from a competition point of view (in terms of Ralf from 0711), however I don't quite understand this, as shoddily modified consoles, old games and cheap peripherals are hardly what I'd call direct competition to something like a new game cartridge. In fact a new cartridge would drive sales of old hardware as it increases interest in the devices. What it seems to come down to here is a deep psychological issue, which I can't even begin to understand. I'm a decent person and quite literally cannot understand what drives the mentally ill, and have no desire to find out.

 

All I can hope is that those who continue with this toxic attitude long enough will get noticed, and they will get what's coming to them. Oddly his website is now down as I went to see what he is currently pedaling, no idea if this is somehow related to his attitude toward the community, but I can only hope so.

 

And bizarrely all the ranting he's doing against AtariAge about things like FCC / CE and everything else, he is also entirely foul of. He doesn't seem to realise that by modifying a console, you actually invalidate any existing FCC / CE certification, even if the dodgy Chinese HDMI upscaler you are using has a fake CE sticker on it. It's what is known as CE + CE != CE.

 

In real terms, trying to apply FCC or CE certification to a game cartridge which plugs into an ancient console which itself no longer passes modern CE or FCC standards is not possible. If the console could not pass certification, a device which plugs into it cannot either. It's just hypocritical scaremongering from the mentally ill.

 

But, yes, bring on Karma. My name isn't Earl, but if it helps Karma function, I can change my name.

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I hate to ask this.  But what is Ralf's web site address?  Just so I know not to buy anything from him.  I am sure I've run into it in the past but don't remember right now.

 

Never mind.  Found it again.

 

 

Edited by djones60

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16 minutes ago, djones60 said:

I hate to ask this.  But what is Ralf's web site?  Just so I know not to buy anything from him.

 

 

I believe he's behind http://www.0711spiele.de/ and the eBay shop with the same name.

 

Avoid and recommend anyone to avoid I would say.

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...and the F00kb00k page:

 

https://www.facebook.com/retromodding

 

Seriously F**k Zuck, he has been very careless with millions of people's data and has allowed and just this week says he will continue to allow foreign (Russian) false propaganda to affect Elections around the globe and.....

the Brexit vote.

Asshat! or should it be Ass Hat? or A Shat? A cross between a sh1t and a hat?

 

Needless to say I don't use FB and have deleted the app from my mobile phones as it tracked so much other than just what you did on FB.  I heard it may even scoop up those 200+ contacts on yer phone too and sell the info to God knows who to do God knows what with it.

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1 hour ago, RAShepherd said:

...and the F00kb00k page:

 

https://www.facebook.com/retromodding

 

Seriously F**k Zuck, he has been very careless with millions of people's data and has allowed and just this week says he will continue to allow foreign (Russian) false propaganda to affect Elections around the globe and.....

the Brexit vote.

Asshat! or should it be Ass Hat? or A Shat? A cross between a sh1t and a hat?

 

Needless to say I don't use FB and have deleted the app from my mobile phones as it tracked so much other than just what you did on FB.  I heard it may even scoop up those 200+ contacts on yer phone too and sell the info to God knows who to do God knows what with it.

I hate Facebook as well and don't use it but you're conflating things. Random people who are paid to interpret the doctrine of Facebooks policy through their own biases are responsible for policing others unfairly on the platform.

 

Good practices for Facebook:

#1 use Ublock-Origin. #2 don't learn about reality through the lens of Ads.  #3 its not Facebooks responsibility nor the governments to dictate one political side vs another and babysit the intellectually confused. They're there for money.  Anyone who pays for an Ad that isn't against the law or Facebooks policies should be able to pay for it (politics lean on propaganda in general and if its people are so fragile something else is wrong)... #4 Stop using social media that deletes decanting points of view.

Edited by zezba9000
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Whats the best place to be updated for when orders from 3rd parties will be setup?

Forums or Twitter? Or is there a mailing list that could be setup for this so I don't miss it?

 

I sometimes have a lot of stuff to keep track of and I would hate to miss what sometimes is a short Window for such things.

 

@SainT

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1 hour ago, zezba9000 said:

Whats the best place to be updated for when orders from 3rd parties will be setup?

Forums or Twitter? Or is there a mailing list that could be setup for this so I don't miss it?

 

I sometimes have a lot of stuff to keep track of and I would hate to miss what sometimes is a short Window for such things.

 

@SainT

Besides here, he's pretty active on twitter https://twitter.com/TheRetroHQ I believe he has a newsletter as well but Twitter is good.

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13 hours ago, zezba9000 said:

Whats the best place to be updated for when orders from 3rd parties will be setup?

Forums or Twitter? Or is there a mailing list that could be setup for this so I don't miss it?

 

I sometimes have a lot of stuff to keep track of and I would hate to miss what sometimes is a short Window for such things.

 

@SainT

 

Yes, here and Twitter are good for general updates.

 

When things happen with getting new distributors online and you have an active pre-order, you will be emailed too.

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