Upcoming Jaguar Game Drive Cartridge

[Lynxpro]

Please make the cart in the shape of Jack Tramiel's Head?

 

 

 

Nah. Put the Battlesphere logo on the case. Just for irony. Wait, no, threatened lawsuit.

 

Call it the SainTsphere Cartridge!

[Lynxpro]

*takes hit of fumes*

 

Since we're redesigning SainT's case:

 

 

RetroHQ_JagSD.jpg

 

No, no, no. That's the Jaguar XM Case design! [ducks and runs away].

 

 

Did I just earn a Klax?

[Lynxpro]

 

No.

 

I was thinking about MP3 decompression on the microcontroller, though, which may be possible. The biggest bottleneck seems to be data throughput over SPI from the SD card to the micro, so it may be the lower data rate but increased CPU usage trade-off may work.

 

But either way, there's not really a huge lack of storage space these days on SD cards...

 

That's an interesting idea... Which brings to mind 2 things...

 

1. Do you think the micro-controller could decode AAC? I don't want to suggest feature-creep but I'd think AAC would be just as popular as MP3 at this point. I would retroactively hope VLM could deal with MOD files. Like many Jag owners, I never got around to getting the JagCD so I don't know from personal experience...

 

2. Could the micro-controller be accessible to Jag coders? Say for instance if someone wanted to hack, I dunno, Doom, with the intent of getting the micro-controller to play music.

 

And thanks again for the Lynx SD Card. Love it! I see from the 7800 Forum there's plenty of 7800 people hounding you to finish this and provide a SD solution for that platform. It may be even more of a headache than the Jag.

 

[Earned a Klax].

[metzger130]

Since I am barely familiar with the Jaguar catalog, how big of an SD card do you think we would need for the entire library?

[+CyranoJ]

About 1.5cm x 1cm should do it.

[RobPattonDotCom]

 

Did I mention I might do one? I lose track, I did think about it. I'm not, though. However I've heard the skunkboard is available again if you just want something to do some programming on.

 

Where? That would be a great temp fix that I'd buy...

[+af0l]

 

Where? That would be a great temp fix that I'd buy...

 

 

https://www.sellmyretro.com/offer/details/skunkboard-flash-cardridge-for-jaguar-27561

 

But be warned, the pcb seems a bit thick and it comes with sharp edges. Your cart connector might not take it lightly. I sanded down mine and they seem to work ok (got two).

[SainT]

Another update. I've spent quite a few days tracking down stability issues, which have been numerous and amazingly difficult to pin down. The good news is that at the moment I *think* I've sorted them all out. It's always tricky to say for sure, as I've thought I've sorted them several nights in a row now and they keep popping up, but this last day of pain has removed an edge case where I needed data back very quickly. I was having issues where changing completely unrelated logic in the ASIC would cause the red-screen-of-death, which can only be timing / routing sensitive issues.

 

Also I now have the EEPROM support mostly working! I say mostly, as it's not reloading correctly, but I have the data being shadowed on the ASIC for immediate access from the Jag (there was no time to go to the micro for the data) and all write data being sent over to the micro via a microwire to SPI bridge. When the EEPROM data has been modified I set a dirty flag, if the data is dirty and has not been touched for 4 seconds, it's then saved to the memory card as [rom name].e2p. So I now have save data from Tempest 2k writing out and looking sane (I can see high scores etc).

 

So I just need to check whats going on with reload -- I hacked in a memory mapped view of the EEPROM as well for quickly writing to it, I suspect the write is not working.

 

It's getting reasonably close now to being a complete cartridge / ROM based flash cart solution.

 

Then comes the CD...

Edited October 25, 2019 by SainT

[Hastor]

Thanks so much for all the thorough updates!

While I'd get this without the CD functionality, I must say that would make this much more than just another flash cart (which the Jag needs too). It would preserve a lot of games that will otherwise die as the hardware does.

 

I'm looking forward to reading about your adventures in getting that to work!

[leech]

About 1.5cm x 1cm should do it.

I love you man, don't ever change.

[Final Theory]

I just want to say that I 100% approve of your project and efforts in making an SD flash cartridge for the Atari Jaguar. When I was growing up in the 90's there were lots of consoles out there, but because I was a kid I only had so much money. I had a SNES and then an N-64. Never did I get to really experience the Jaguar or other consoles that I didn't have access to.

 

But now that I am older, I now have some money and now I'm getting into all of the older games and consoles that I missed while growing up. I have now started collecting older consoles and getting flash carts for every console that they make them for.

 

I may not be able to buy the whole library of games in cartridge form, but with a flash cart and internet access I can download all the roms and have amazing experiences.

 

Just a short story, but its interesting. I got my Atari Jaguar console at a Goodwill store for $12.99 USD. Seriously, a mint condition Jag for $12.99. There was no CD attachment, but who cares. They did have a bunch of games too, but they were $25.00 each. I don't know why the console was so cheap, maybe someone messed up the prices, but who cares I got a Jaguar and now all I need is the flash cart.

 

It would be great if the SD card could run Jaguar CD games.

 

Keep up the great work with this SD flash cart!!!!

[+madman]

Thanks so much for all the thorough updates!

While I'd get this without the CD functionality, I must say that would make this much more than just another flash cart (which the Jag needs too). It would preserve a lot of games that will otherwise die as the hardware does.

 

I'm looking forward to reading about your adventures in getting that to work!

The CD images are already out there. They're "preserved."

[Hastor]

The CD images are already out there. They're "preserved."

To me, they aren't truly preserved unless they can be played on the original hardware, and the CD drives out there are dying off. Emulation isn't the same. Since the CD drive was just a different way of reading data mainly, I don't feel like anything is being lost compared to playing it on a real Jag CD. Just knowing that original CPU is crunching the numbers is important to me personally lol. I also swear by CRT for old consoles.

[+LS650]

To me, they aren't truly preserved unless they can be played on the original hardware, and the CD drives out there are dying off. Emulation isn't the same. Since the CD drive was just a different way of reading data mainly, I don't feel like anything is being lost compared to playing it on a real Jag CD. Just knowing that original CPU is crunching the numbers is important to me personally lol. I also swear by CRT for old consoles.

I think much of what you say is true, and doubly so with the Jaguar as emulation simply isn't there yet.

[Final Theory]

I just wanted to say. I think I saw a review of your neo geo pocket flash cart and wanted to say a few things about the jag flash cart.

 

 

The jag flash cart should load games pretty much instantly, similar to how the sd2snes does with snes games.

 

As long as you nail that, I'll buy this as I only have 1 game in my jag collection.

[SainT]

I just wanted to say. I think I saw a review of your neo geo pocket flash cart and wanted to say a few things about the jag flash cart.

 

 

The jag flash cart should load games pretty much instantly, similar to how the sd2snes does with snes games.

 

As long as you nail that, I'll buy this as I only have 1 game in my jag collection.

Man, I hadn't thought of a making it fast! I thought people wanted it slow? It's retro, right? I was thinking of adding tape loading noises and making it take 30 minutes to load each game... but... get this... unless you press the joypad buttons constantly while loading it fails. Just like the old days!!

 

Sorry, I don't usually bite.

 

Yes, loading time will be something like 5 seconds for a 2mb game. The reason the NGP is slow is due to the fact it uses flash to store the games due to how the NGP hardware works -- that's as fast as I can flash it.

[walter_J64bit]

Man, I hadn't thought of a making it fast! I thought people wanted it slow? It's retro, right? I was thinking of adding tape loading noises and making it take 30 minutes to load each game... but... get this... unless you press the joypad buttons constantly while loading it fails. Just like the old days!!

 

Sorry, I don't usually bite.

 

Yes, loading time will be something like 5 seconds for a 2mb game. The reason the NGP is slow is due to the fact it uses flash to store the games due to how the NGP hardware works -- that's as fast as I can flash it.

WOW, 5 seconds for a 2mb game! :-o Take my money!

[SainT]

On 12/11/2017 at 11:34 AM, walter_J64bit said:

WOW, 5 seconds for a 2mb game! Take my money!

 

That's the speed I'm getting at the moment, I should be able to make it a bit faster (possibly upto twice as quick -- depending on if I can just DMA directly from the memory card SPI interface to the Jag one, which I think I can). At the moment I've been concentrating on stability and fanctionality...

Edited October 25, 2019 by SainT

[leech]

Man, I hadn't thought of a making it fast! I thought people wanted it slow? It's retro, right? I was thinking of adding tape loading noises and making it take 30 minutes to load each game... but... get this... unless you press the joypad buttons constantly while loading it fails. Just like the old days!!

 

Sorry, I don't usually bite.

 

Yes, loading time will be something like 5 seconds for a 2mb game. The reason the NGP is slow is due to the fact it uses flash to store the games due to how the NGP hardware works -- that's as fast as I can flash it.

I'd like the Special Tape Edition. People and their fancy consoles that dependably load just don't get the REAL retro feel.

 

Ha, the Lynx was pretty fast as well, normal Jag I think might only be slightly faster than 5 seconds. Really looking forward to this!

[Orionis5]

Well folk...to all requests to SainT. Yes I'm also perfectionist but I learned to be like that to myself, not to others.

As for working of new jag SD cartridge I have no worries because this project is simply from "love" towards Jaguar and not profit based like people that f***** up Atari in the past.

No way you can do such a thing for profit with so much work and when somebody does this because of his own passion there is nothing to worry and be smart about it.

Thanks SainT and stay resilient to all the problems

ps - I do not expect discount

[Final Theory]

 

The reason the NGP is slow is due to the fact it uses flash to store the games due to how the NGP hardware works -- that's as fast as I can flash it.

 

Yes, this was exactly why I stated that the Jaguar should be fast. I didn't realize that the speed of loading the games in the NGP was due to the hardware. Thanks for clearing that up.

[SainT]

Eurgh, right, I've given up on my current efforts to slice the address and data bus without any latch. I'm about 90% sure that's where my stability issues lie. I've managed to get the EEPROM working very briefly, but everything is really unstable and making completely unrelated changes is breaking the memory access.

 

The issue I believe is that I share a 32-bit bus between the address and data lines and switch between them -- when reading from the cartridge, however, the data lines need to be outputting data until the Jaguar latches it. There is actually one cycle between when I can release the bus to switch back to the address bus and start another read.

 

I believe as I'm adding more logic, the point at which the address bus is becoming stable is being pushed back and causing the issues I'm getting. The simple solution, however, is to add a latch to the data bus -- then I can just output valid data for a couple of cycles, latch it, then release the bus. That way valid read data is available until the Jaguar de-asserts the OE lines and I am free to switch back to the address bus.

 

It's a bit of a pain as I have to get another board made and solder the bugger up, but if that solves the issue, then all good. I seriously don't want a cartridge which doesn't work on some Jaguars due to timing issues...

[DoTheMath]

Good on you for doing it this way.

[mortalfloater]

Wow! Looking forward to this!

[Lynxpro]

Man, I hadn't thought of a making it fast! I thought people wanted it slow? It's retro, right? I was thinking of adding tape loading noises and making it take 30 minutes to load each game... but... get this... unless you press the joypad buttons constantly while loading it fails. Just like the old days!!

 

Sorry, I don't usually bite.

 

Yes, loading time will be something like 5 seconds for a 2mb game. The reason the NGP is slow is due to the fact it uses flash to store the games due to how the NGP hardware works -- that's as fast as I can flash it.

 

 

Tape noises? No, Sir. Gotta keep it in the Atari family. Gotta make noises like an Atari 8-bit computer loading disks or tapes via the SIO Port...the POKEY would make all sorts of beeps and farting noising to indicate something was going on. There's plenty of videos on The YouTube with the audio intact.