InsertCoin25 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Its not the developers but the people who pay money for collectible crap who are to blame first here. I can understand that. I think that the collectible crap market stems from having a form of OCD collector mentally. Anything that comes out, including low-par homebrew, they must have. To be honest, I sometimes fall into that mentality. Its the excitement of something new, even if it sucks. Which in return will drive you crazy, if you don't get a handle on it. I can also imagine how true homebrew developers feel, such as yourself, when the market is flooded with crap and people are buying all the crap and overlooking the gems. It does make the homebrew scene look like a fly by night product, and that is worrisome. Hopefully collectors can wake up and see this before it gets too extreme. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enthusi Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I agree with Developers should be pushing the limits of the console... But it contradicts already what was said a few lines earlier in a way: I believe no matter what programming language, assembly or batari basic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I would extend that to: Developers should be pushing the limits of the console or the framework used. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enthusi Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 yeah Or a even more generic 'do their best' 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S1500 Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 One suggestion is when you hit the enemy, don't flash the screen. I don't suffer from seizures from flashy light stuff, but that's going to get annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 Came in expecting the translation of the arcade game. Watched a video of a 2600 game with the same title that lacks depth. Leaving disappointed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I agree with But it contradicts already what was said a few lines earlier in a way: I disagree; there are BASIC games that also push the limits of the console, and we don't know for sure what language was used to create this game. The dual controller looks pretty cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Cafeman Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I just watched the video. I understand the negative comments now, because the game looks quickly thrown together and reflects badly on the overall Atari homebrew scene. It could be a worthy homebrew game - a twin-stick Robotron-style shooter is always potentially fun. But it needs a lot more work if you're going to sell it. The sprite artwork is very poor and appears to have no animation. Is the main character supposed to be a celery stalk or pencil with legs? The sounds and screen flashing are so annoying that it makes me want to just stop watching the video. The controller looks fantastic; but no reason to limit the game to one copy, anybody can use a coupler on two Atari sticks to do the same thing. (The End) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gauauu Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 (edited) I would extend that to: Developers should be pushing the limits of the console or the framework used. I don't care if developers actually push the limits. I just want a well-designed game with some effort to make it "good". Good doesn't have to mean pushing any limits...some of my favorite games don't push any limits, they're just fun to play. I'm not sure this thing qualifies for either though. Edit: who knows, maybe it is a fun game? Unfortunately, this goofy one-game-only model won't let us ever find out. Edited October 10, 2016 by gauauu 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted October 10, 2016 Share Posted October 10, 2016 I just watched the video. I understand the negative comments now, because the game looks quickly thrown together and reflects badly on the overall Atari homebrew scene. When you look at some of the home brews in development like Draconian, Scramble & Pac-Man 8-bit or games released like Juno First and the advances that have been made - The End sets the program back 35 years. The End looks like a game that CommaVid would've slapped together for a quick buck BITD. I don't care if developers actually push the limits. I just want a well-designed game with some effort to make it "good". Good doesn't have to mean pushing any limits...some of my favorite games don't push any limits, they're just fun to play. I'm not sure this thing qualifies for either though. Edit: who knows, maybe it is a fun game? Unfortunately, this goofy one-game-only model won't let us ever find out. The bottom line is always if a game is fun to play or not. Look at the repetitive game play in the video: shoot an enemy, another enemy appears on the screen, rinse and repeat. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJJJJS Posted October 10, 2016 Author Share Posted October 10, 2016 The general reaction isn't something I was expecting. We did this as just a cool one off, no malice intended. If someone at the auction wants it great, if not I'm more than happy to keep it for my collection. We had demos for our games at the booth last year. We hadn't done that in previous years due to space but on the advice of some friends in the community we made sure that we had the space to do it last year. I think it worked out well especially since PRGE X was 2 player. Again I'm sorry that some people feel this is a money grab. I highly doubt that anyone in 2016 sets out to make a 2600 game with profit in mind. Personally I believe that my history of fixing dozens of consoles and modding even more throughout the years without asking for compensation should show that I'm a fan of the console. I understand that very few people here know about any of that, I don't advertise it and this is basically my first exposure/interaction to the atari community at large and so I don't blame someone for thinking the worst. We didn't plan on doing a run of new games this year since we've been busier than usual with new developments, but this idea came to me, I thought it was cool and I like working with the 2600 so there it is. I'm very happy with how it turned out, I like the way it plays, I like using the controller, the people who have played it enjoyed it and that's really what matters to me. It's all about making something fun since we're fans of the system. Anyway, that's the long and short of it. Just thought I'd pop in and clear the air a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+swlovinist Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 I can vouch for JJJJJS. He has dedicated countless hours to help me with my Cowltiz Gamers for Kids projects, as well as being passionate for classic consoles. He is a stand up guy and does not deserve these comments about honestly a game that is decent( I played it in person). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Is it possible to bid on "The End" on line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KaeruYojimbo Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 I've been mulling how to respond to this for a while, probably longer than any AtariAge post I've made, and I still don't feel confident I can really express this the way it needs to be, but I'll try. First, thanks to JJJJJS and swlovinist for responding to this thread and sharing the reasoning behind the decision to release the game this way. That said, if you haven't read the Great Homebrew Crash thread link to earlier in this thread, do so. It will shed some light on why The End got the reaction it did. Not knowing any of the behind the scenes stuff, this looks exactly we want to get rid of in this hobby: overpriced, over-hyped, releases of games of unknown or questionable quality, produced in limited numbers to artificially increase their desirability to super collectors for whom they will be nothing but shelf candy. And, to be honest, the gameplay video is underwhelming. Even the best thing swolvinist can say to defend it is that it's "decent." But none of us will get to know if The End is a good game or not. By making a game that only one person will get to play, you haven't really added anything to the community. OK, I'm going to stop now. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy B. Coyote Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 I've felt pretty torn about how to reply to this as well. On one hand, any time someone makes a new game for the Atari 2600 that is of at least playable quality it should be commended; because writing even the simplest games for the 2600 is no easy task and I'd never want to discourage a homebrew developer from continuing to improve their skill and make more games. Especially when those games look similar to Robotron 2084, because the Atari 2600 is in severe need of some Robotron action! On the other hand, saying that you're only going to release one copy of the game and sell it at auction just looks like cash grab trying to take advantage of those obsessive homebrew collectors who want to have one of everything; and even more so when the game appears to need a bit more polish. It doesn't give the Atari community a chance to provide feedback on the game and help you improve it, and it doesn't add anything to the library of games for Atari fans to enjoy. So, here's what I'd suggest: Go ahead and auction off the single physical copy of the game and twin stick controller at PRGE, but also make a thread in Homebrew Discussion here on AtariAge to release the ROM for the game publicly. That will allow you to bring in a good chunk of change from the single physical copy of the game but also allow everyone with access to an emulator or a Harmony cartridge to enjoy it and provide feedback on it, helping you improve your game design skills and adding a contribution to the Atari 2600 library. There are already a lot of people out there who own twin stick Atari 2600 / 7800 controllers thanks to the work of Edladdin, and probably even more who would be happy to break out a roll of duct tape or sticky backed velcro, strap two joysticks down to a board, and give your game a try. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsertCoin25 Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Thank you JJJJJS and swlovinist for adding clarity to this topic. I do agree with Jin, that releasing the rom to the community, would give you greater feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YANDMAN Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Game looks like fun, like a 2600 Robotron or as close as we could get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) ...or as close as we could get. Judging from the video, we can get much, much closer. Omicron Edited October 11, 2016 by Thomas Jentzsch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 I'm surprised by the blow back over this game. The forum usually has a mellower attitude to these rare homebrews, a kind of "let the marketplace decide" position. This is a novel stunt. I don't think this is a cash grab. It might go for 100 bucks, if that. I know people can shell out cash for homebrews, but this might be different. The auction format is unpredictable. Sure, an auction can turn into a pissing match, but the seller will need luck, too. I am curious to see how The End ends up. They should broadcast the auction on line. I would be curious to watch it. I don't see this as contributing to a homebrew crash. The only way there will be a homebrew crash, is if people stop making games, or if we get old and die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YANDMAN Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Judging from the video, we can get much, much closer. Omicron You would be the man to make such a dream come true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 You would be the man to make such a dream come true Unfortunately my ToDo list is already much longer than my remaining lifetime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamchevy Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 (edited) You would be the man to make such a dream come true You should be or try and become the man to make this come true. I'm sure you could ask for some constructive criticism and get some of the help your looking for. It looks like a good start to a robotron style game to me. Good luck! Edited October 11, 2016 by adamchevy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KaeruYojimbo Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 It looks like a good start to a robotron style game to me. That's pretty much the issue. It's the start to a good game being sold as a finished product. My suggestion, which is just mirroring what has already been said, is that Lost Classics stop developing games in a vacuum and share them with the community as works in progress to get feedback. Of what I've seen of their games (playing Landfill, videos of The End and Polybius), they all need a little more polish before they could be considered finished. Whether that's from being up against the deadline of having games ready for a show or just needing to be looked at with a critical eye, I don't know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inky Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Screw the game, that controller is pretty sweet looking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectorGamer Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 as well as being passionate for classic consoles. He is a stand up guy I didn't attack the guy. You didn't quote me but I'm just stating for the record. It's the start to a good game being sold as a finished product. My suggestion, which is just mirroring what has already been said, is that Lost Classics stop developing games in a vacuum and share them with the community as works in progress to get feedback. That's the thing: they sure know what community to target to sell the game but they won't use the AA community to get feedback before they release the final product. The video is pretty descriptive of what your getting with this game: monotony. If a gamer likes monotony they will love this game. But it's not for me. Screw the game, that controller is pretty sweet looking. The game is worth whatever Albert is currently offering in store credit to recycle black/text label carts. Here's their controller: and the Edladdin controller: The Edladdin looks sleeker and less bulky IMHO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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