When joysticks got replaced with gamepads

[mr_me]

I looked into the right-handed control vs left-handed control question again. The first time I just looked at early Atari arcade games. In another post I had a quick look at maze games. So now I hope to have covered all arcade video game manufacturers from the early 1980s. As requested I'm not considering trackball or rotational controls.

 

I found that there was an early standard for 1-dimensional/2-way controls (eg. Space Invaders, Asteroids). These had a left/right control on the left-hand and a fire/thrust control on the right-hand. Most manufacturers followed this standard. Defender and Joust fall in this category. There was the odd game that had symmetrical controls, and others that had the left/right controls on the right. The very first arcade videogame, Computer Space (1971), had these controls on the right but reversed it for their two player version.

 

With 4-way and 8-way control games many manufacturers chose right handed control panels. Not including trackball, rotational, and dual joystick controls, here's what I found.

 

right-handed:
Exidy, Sega, Midway, Gremlin, Namco, Gottlieb

 

symetrical:
Stern, Centuri, Cinematronics, Williams, Taito, Atari

 

Left-handed:
Universal, Nintendo, Data-East

 

Midway also made some games with symmetrical control panels, but when making cocktail versions of those games they chose right-handed controls. Atari favoured right-handed controls for their 4-player Gauntlet games in 1985/86. Early Namco manufactured games were hard to find as many Namco games were manufactured by Midway or Atari. Exidy and Sega had the odd symmetrical controls. Cinamatronics, Centuri, and Taito had the odd right-handed controls as well as the odd left-handed controls but most were symmetrical.

 

And then I looked at home video games of that time.

 

right-handed:
Atari, Odyssey2, Apple, IBM, Tandy, Sinclair/Spectrum, Wico, Gravis, Quikshot 1, Suncom Starfighter, others

 

symetrical/neutral:
Intellivision, Atari 5200, Colecovision, Fairchild, Astrocade, TI99, Commodore, Sinclair/Spectrum, Kempston Competition Pro, Suncom Tac-2/Slikstik (mid/late 80s), others

 

left-handed
Vectrex, NES (1985 in North America ), Sega (1986 in North America)

 

Gamepads didn't make it to PCs until 1991. I remember looking for a gamepad in 1990, but had to settle for a right-handed joystick instead. Its interesting that in 1983 Sega sold a left-handed joystick (SJ-300) for the Japanese market but in 1987 sold a right-handed joystick (Sega Control Stick) for the rest of the world. And if you think right-handed controls are not good for fighting games (ie too many buttons) consider Seth Killian. Seth was a top Street Fighter player, right handed, and played cross-armed.

 

It is clear that in the early 1980s right-handed controls were very normal both in the arcade and with home video games. And at that time most people did use those symmetric controls right-handed (see post #84). As a result of the NES dominating the US market in the late 1980s, Nintendo, being one of the few companies using left-handed controls, not only changed the standard to gamepads, but also shifted controls from right-handed to left-handed.

Edited November 15, 2016 by mr_me

[Inky]

For me,it really depends on the game, and how the game is programmed.

[Nebulon]

I looked into the right-handed control vs left-handed control question again. The first time I just looked at early Atari arcade games. In another post I had a quick look at maze games. So now I hope to have covered all arcade video game manufacturers from the early 1980s. As requested I'm not considering trackball or rotational controls.

 

I found that there was an early standard for 1-dimensional/2-way controls (eg. Space Invaders, Asteroids). These had a left/right control on the left-hand and a fire/thrust control on the right-hand. Most manufacturers followed this standard. Defender and Joust fall in this category. There was the odd game that had symmetrical controls, and others that had the left/right controls on the right. The very first arcade videogame, Computer Space (1971), had these controls on the right but reversed it for their two player version.

 

With 4-way and 8-way control games many manufacturers chose right handed control panels. Not including trackball, rotational, and dual joystick controls, here's what I found.

 

right-handed:

Exidy, Sega, Midway, Gremlin, Namco, Gottlieb

 

symetrical:

Stern, Centuri, Cinematronics, Williams, Taito, Atari

 

Left-handed:

Universal, Nintendo, Data-East

 

Midway also made some games with symmetrical control panels, but when making cocktail versions of those games they chose right-handed controls. Atari favoured right-handed controls for their 4-player Gauntlet games in 1985/86. Early Namco manufactured games were hard to find as many Namco games were manufactured by Midway or Atari. Exidy and Sega had the odd symmetrical controls. Cinamatronics, Centuri, and Taito had the odd right-handed controls as well as the odd left-handed controls but most were symmetrical.

 

And then I looked at home video games of that time.

 

right-handed:

Atari, Odyssey2, Apple, IBM, Tandy, Sinclair/Spectrum, Wico, Gravis, Quikshot 1, Suncom Starfighter, others

 

symetrical/neutral:

Intellivision, Atari 5200, Colecovision, Fairchild, Astrocade, TI99, Commodore, Sinclair/Spectrum, Kempston Competition Pro, Suncom Tac-2/Slikstik (mid/late 80s), others

 

left-handed

Vectrex, NES (1985 in North America ), Sega (1986 in North America)

 

Gamepads didn't make it to PCs until 1991. I remember looking for a gamepad in 1990, but had to settle for a right-handed joystick instead. Its interesting that in 1983 Sega sold a left-handed joystick (SJ-300) for the Japanese market but in 1987 sold a right-handed joystick (Sega Control Stick) for the rest of the world. And if you think right-handed controls are not good for fighting games (ie too many buttons) consider Seth Killian. Seth was a top Street Fighter player, right handed, and played cross-armed.

 

It is clear that in the early 1980s right-handed controls were very normal both in the arcade and with home video games. And at that time most people did use those symmetric controls right-handed (see post #84). As a result of the NES dominating the US market in the late 1980s, Nintendo, being one of the few companies using left-handed controls, not only changed the standard to gamepads, but also shifted controls from right-handed to left-handed.

Good research!

 

I spotted these right-handed control setups too:

 

MSX

https://archive.org/stream/amusement-life-magazine-18#page/n52/mode/2up

 

MultiVision

https://archive.org/stream/amusement-life-magazine-16#page/n46/mode/2up

 

PV-2000:

https://archive.org/stream/amusement-life-magazine-16#page/n48/mode/2up

 

As well as Caliber Fifty, Roc'n Rope, and a few others in the arcade.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Bump. With the whole left versus right debate, this looked interesting:

 

Goofyfoot, an NES controller with right thumb Dpad...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1659035215/goofy-foot-an-alternative-nes-controller?ref=thanks

[+wongojack]

Bump. With the whole left versus right debate, this looked interesting:

 

Goofyfoot, an NES controller with right thumb Dpad...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1659035215/goofy-foot-an-alternative-nes-controller?ref=thanks

Disappointing that they stuck with the rectangle and the straight buttons. I guess the point is that it is easily recognizable as a NES item.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Disappointing that they stuck with the rectangle and the straight buttons. I guess the point is that it is easily recognizable as a NES item.

The stock NES controller feels perfect in my hands. Not an ergo nightmare at all...

 

Also I backed the Goofyfoot NES just for the novelty...

[zetastrike]

I find the stock Famicom gamepad to be very incomfortable. It's too small, I have to have my hands in an awkward position to hold it and press the buttons. The cord is way too short. I picked up the Japanese equivalent to the NES Advantage, which works much better for me, despite the cord *still* being too short.

 

I really grew to love the 2600 joystick. It's not comfortable for really long play sessions, but I enjoy using it for any console I have that can take it. I feel like I'm doing it the old fashioned way. Using a Genesis gamepad feels so wrong for the VCS or A8bit.

[tripletopper]

I can't believe what a vigorous argument we are having. The reason why most fighting games are left stick is because a) it takes a lot of real estate on a cabinet to have 2 sets of buttons, and since NES was the 90% standard in the US and Japan, and NEC, Genesis, and SNES followed, and there was a mass market appeal thing, the joystick was on the left. And the reason why Nintnedo put it on the left was because Donkey Kong was supposed to use Radarscope cabinets which is a 1 dimensional shooter, so It was on the left.

 

That being said. You got 4 options if you're a right handed joystick player. 1) Learn lefty, 2) Quit games, 3) either make for yourself, or hire someone to make, a right handed josytick, or 4) Tell Madcatz you'll put down a 50% reserve on a right handed joystick. If enough people do 4, they'll make it ambidextrous or separate left/right versions. But remember if you make separate left/right verison, you'll have to anticipate what percentage of the people will prefer left or right. And remember if you're going to make an ambidextrous stick, it can either be a bare basic horizontal button arrangement, or as you'll see I found an arrangement that would work good ambidextrous.

 

As to whether the left or right side stick is better, I've got some anecdotal evidence saying the right side is better for me in most games. With the coming of the Genesis version of Street Fighter II The New challengers, I bought a custom stick. It had a joystick and button set as separate boxes and can be placed on a velcro board to stabilize them. It was a cheap controller only $70 in the Genesis SNES days, and te buttons were from a standard right button arrangement, so it felt a little weird when I played button left. I played it with me and 4 of my friends. I carried my ambistick over. I was not only beating everyone, one person who got particukarky cheesed came in second and I told him the secret was the right handed stick. e didn't believe me, so I had my other 3 friends face him with the stick in both right- and left-handed forms. All 3 of them beat this doubting friend with a right handed joystick twice each. With a left stick 2 of them went 1-1 and the other won twice.

 

What do I attribute that to. Well to do a dragon punch well enough so your opponent can't see it coming, you have to move quickly in a z and press 1 button. With a right handed stick every time I willed a Z move, I was able to pull it off. Not so with the joypad. I was concentrating on individual moves with a left pad so much that 2 tings happened. 1) opponents could see it coming, and 2) I couldn't concentrate on reacting to my opponent because I was trying to will a dragon punch except concentrating on the screen to see if I'm too late and making a reaction. Also my will to action ratio was well below 50%. I was misfiring dragon punches more often than hitting them. Bt with the right handed stick I never had a misfire except if I got hit before I finished throwing it.

 

Now this is a fairly famous gamer that was the Doubting Thomas. He would usually be in the top 2 or 3 of literally every game we played in our group of 8-10 for every system, old or new at the time. He would win the local Blockbuster Genesis championship. And then he appeared twice on TV. He makes his living in competitions as multi- and varied- game tournaments. Winning 2 of them, Life to the Power of X on Spike TV, and 1 year of Iron Man of gaming, and in other years of IMOG,he was always in the top 10 and more than half the time in the top 5 on a contest where people traveled all over the country to come there where there were 100 some entrants. Some people who won big one year fell into the bottom half the next. He was the most consistent finisher, always in the run for the finals.

 

He is Jamal Nickens, and his handle is Zophar 321 on various social websites. If you want to see his Life to the Power of X performance, visit http://www.jackofallgamestv.com/lifex.htm He also appeared on Season 1 of WCG Ultimate Gamer. He'll be a good house contestant for a the game show concept also promoted on this website on the main page.

 

I talked with him recently, and we were talking, and the subject came up on last week's Twitch.tv/Zophar321 broadcast of M1 Abrams Battle Tank stream. I was trying to tell him that is one person can execute specials on will, and the other has a 50% special rate or less, he'd dominate New Challengers, because supers give you so much an advantage. (less so for newer fighters) Also combos were less emphasized, there were no engineered combos, just natural combos that occurred as part of the game engine. The were no Supers, and it was a simpler game. And at the time he was using a gamepad. If he can find a Joystick for the Genesis where he can execute 90+% of his specials, he'd probably beat me now. And when Street Fighter was said to be online for Dreamcast and later systems, he remembered how 4 of us beat him with a better weapon, so he wised up and got a joystick. More recently, he whooped me, but it was with a more modern version of a fighter.

 

And as anecdotal evidence, his first 2 systems were Colecoviison and Vectrex. Colecovision he could have held either way and a Vectrex was left handed, so he learned that way. I had a Colecovision, so I had a choice. I was exposed to Atari 2600 so I understood that one. If it gave me a choice, I (unless a fire button wasn't working) chose the right side, especially on 1 or 2 button games.

 

The NES pad was no problem for me. Instead of holding it with my hands and using 2 thumbs, I putt he controller on the floor and used my index and Middle fingers to make diagonals, and independently manipulate buttons. I was making some of the more complex jump/fire patterns compared to my brother and friends. But when I had an NES Advantage, it felt unnatural to use a left hand for the stick. I eventually got used to it, but later I bought a Beeshu Jazz right handed for NES and was usually using that or the pad. Also my opinion was tainted because at some electronics store, it was demoed with Super Mario Bros. the single worst game to show off rapid fire and slo mo. Kid NIki was a better game to show it off as a cheat. Later I learned that cheating in games only helps you beat story mode. It loses you friends as opponents.

 

It was not until the SNES where I had to buy a joystick because I normally put the controller on the ground and Shoulder buttons were becoming more key.

 

Also a piece of advice, If you;re going to spend $200-300 ona custom joystick for fighters, one) make it ambidextrous so you can play all those older games in whatever way feels more comfortable, which may change from game to game, and 2) spend an extra $50-150 to make it multi-console, because good joystick parts are good joystick parts regardless of the system, so why re-buy them for different consoles, when you can reuse them for multiple consoles.

 

If I get an Xbox One joystick, it's debatable whether I want to play right- or left-handed because of Killer instinct Xbox One, where it might pay more dividends to be dextrous on the buttons compared to the stick in SF2NC with all these extra long combos and a lot of the game being determined by unpredictabilty and button dexterity, so they can't combobreak and you can lengthen the combo. If you use the same set of predetermined combos, your get combobroken.

 

FInallly, here's an idea for an ambidextrous joystick. I shares it with Mad Catz, and they liked it enoug where their next "non-game-specific" controller for modern machines may be so if they find a good arrangement. I suggest instead of buttion 6-8 buttons on both sides, put 2 joysticks on either side of an 8 button arrangement. As for the arrangement of the buttons look at this picture:

 

 

It shows my left hand on the buttons comfortably. Just to show this is not an ergonomically altered stick or doctored picture, here it is on right hand.

 

 

Finally, here's a perfect design for an ambidetrous model. It has 2 sticks for 2 reasons. 1) is for Robotron type games. 2) is for Super Smash Bros. games, and 3 is becuase it takes up less real estate than 8 buttons on both sides:

 

Lastly, if you have the Xbox one model where you can reprogram joystick directions and buttons as each other in the basic OS, this would be good

 

[Andromeda Stardust]

^^Sir, you forgot the reason why right-handed players naturally gravitate towards lefty sticks. The joystick is one movement, despite having multiple actuations. A button is one movement, one actuation. And a Dpad is even more similar to a button. Simply press on it. Thumbsticks are just shrunken down joysticks that respond to values between on and off.

 

Overall, I rate a joystick roughly equivalent to two buttons in terms of dexterity required to actuate. So Nintendo was absolutely right to use lefty joysticks/Dpads. By the time the 90s came along with six button arcade fighters, it was no contest. The hand with the most dexterity should always control the buttons.

 

My preference is as follows:

 

Pacman (no buttons): right hand joystick

Single button games: either way

multiple button games: left hand joystick

 

Also enjoy remapping EVERYTHING on that bottom jalopey, every time you decide to flip it...

[mr_me]

Another option is to play cross armed. Realistically, the best thing is to learn the now industry standard left handed controls. Even if its inferior you can train your left hand to be nearly as good as your right.

[tripletopper]

My point was that I beat an eventual champion using a right handed stick. And so did 3 of my friends. I know the test isn't scientific, but I was beating everyone in my group with the right handed joystick, and everyone else using the right handed stick beat the eventual champ. And he was thrashing everyone in our group joypad vs joypad. The secret in Street Fighter 2 New challengers is that over 50% of the game is dictated by how well you can pull off a dragon punch and fireball motion, which is easier, quicker, more accurate, and less predictable to an opponent in the right hand than the left (at least for me). Add that to the fact is that in SFIINC most of the time all you need is one button at a time to pull off most specials and you can see why that game makes sense for right stick. (I think Zangief and Dahlsim are the only exceptions. But it's easy to press 3 buttons at once.) Later they designed the game with more button gymnastics, like Killer Instinct and larger, engineered combos in other games. I don't know if it will hold up today, but if your strategy is to 90%+ execute specials, right handed is the way to go. If your strategy is button combos, left handed is the way to go. It depends on which one you have to make sure you get right, and in New Challengers, it was, for me and my friends, direction. Different games and different characters within games (both who you are and who you're facing) have different strategies. If you're trying to master one game and do it real well, get the one best for your craft, the later the game is, the more likely it's left handed. But if you're going to be a Jack of All Games, meaning, like Jamal, being able to beat 90% of people in 90% of games, only losing to those who dedicate endless hours at one game every day, then an ambidextrous joystick might be for you.

 

I don't know if one is scientifically better for all people for all games for all time. I just know what's scientifically better for me and my friends at the time SF2NC was big. And if that moves me up from bottom half to top third in almost every game I own, it'd be worth it. But remember, your mileage may vary.

[tripletopper]

As for mapping that jalopy, I was thinking of using 2 "predetermined" street fighter arrangements, which is close enough for most games, and then for things like Pac Land, Track N Field, and other specialty games, I'd hand program it, and by program I mean, because I'm poor and believe a button programmer would ruin ping time, manually rewiring with RCA cables or some similar easy to connect connector, and color coding the cables and holes. But I learned my lesson about multiple systems. The system switch should be independent of the button toggle, so if I want the same arrangement for a new system, I just swap systems, but keep the buttons the same. I know it's a little work, but it's more of a contingency plan than an actual plan. It's basically I trade time and convenience for some cost savings. I get a more versatile joystick and in return I got more labor.

[Andromeda Stardust]

Another option is to play cross armed. Realistically, the best thing is to learn the now industry standard left handed controls. Even if its inferior you can train your left hand to be nearly as good as your right.

That's got to be the most uncomfortable thing ever. I've heard of cross-arming, but I'd never thought people play that way.

[Eltigro]

Just make everything like the Lynx where you can flip it over and still play. lol

[Andromeda Stardust]

Just make everything like the Lynx where you can flip it over and still play. lol

Joystick is inverted. If one row of buttons is utilized, no change is needed. If two rows utilized, top and bottom rows are swapped. However, rows are usually designed for ergonomics. A commercial joystick rotated 180 degrees is no good because the layout no longer conforms to the fingers. However some models may have a control panel with symmetrical footprint such that the parts can be removed and panel flipped over prior to reinstallation. Converting such a stick to right hand format however requires siginificant effort (including complete disassembly and rewiring) and in some cases actual modwork, so it's more involved compared to rotating the joystick and flipping a switch.

 

I have played my Lynx in flip mode on occasion, always feels a bit weird doing it but totally playable.

[CRTGAMER]

I think I am one of the few that use the Wiimote in the left hand and the Nunchuck in the right hand.

[briwayjones]

I think I am one of the few that use the Wiimote in the left hand and the Nunchuck in the right hand.

 

I'm left handed so I do too.

 

I grew up as a kid with both Atari joysticks and Nintendo game pads and am completely used to both. Albeit I was exposed to joysticks a few years earlier. I'm probably in the minority but I prefer joysticks over game pads. When speaking about game pads I'm speaking of retro ones like the Nintendos. I find holding a decent designed joystick more comfortable over a long period more comfortable than a game pad. On a joystick your hands are not closed as tightly as holding a game pad which I find less fatiguing.

 

The biggest thing is I find joysticks more accurate and responsive. You are holding the stick on a joystick and it is in constant contact with your hand. As soon as you start moving your hand in any direction it starts moving the stick. On a game pad to change direction you have to move your thumb from one corner of the pad to the other which takes time. And you have to try to predict when you need to move ahead of time, instead of just moving when you need to. Even on circle type d-pads where you can kind of slide your finger and push the whole pad in the direction you want without going to the actual direction corner there is more lag. Especially if on the initial push the pad doesn't respond, and only responds once your finger slides closer to the direction corner you want. I have a NES Advantage stick for my Nintendo which I would prefer to play with over the game pads. Except I don't only because I find the control buttons sticky and because of that slow, and not very responsive. Especially for button mashing.

 

I agree with others that I think the only reason game pads became the standard is because Nintendo was released with game pads. Nintendo then became popular, became the standard and others followed suit.

[mr_me]

I'll add that most of the early consoles had poorly implemented joysticks (eg. Atari, Coleco, Sega). When Sega came out with their first home video game system, competing with Nintendo in 1983, it had joysticks. My understanding is there were lots of complaints with those joysticks and the following year a revised system from Sega had gamepads. The Nintendo Famicom was more popular but I dont think it was due to the gamepads; it had Donkey Kong. So you can say DK helped kill joysticks.

[Eltigro]

Joystick is inverted. If one row of buttons is utilized, no change is needed. If two rows utilized, top and bottom rows are swapped. However, rows are usually designed for ergonomics. A commercial joystick rotated 180 degrees is no good because the layout no longer conforms to the fingers. However some models may have a control panel with symmetrical footprint such that the parts can be removed and panel flipped over prior to reinstallation. Converting such a stick to right hand format however requires siginificant effort (including complete disassembly and rewiring) and in some cases actual modwork, so it's more involved compared to rotating the joystick and flipping a switch.

 

I have played my Lynx in flip mode on occasion, always feels a bit weird doing it but totally playable.

 

 

Yeah, the idea was that the controls were flipped like it does in the Lynx. I know that you can't just turn the thing upside down. That's why I referenced the Lynx. It changes the controls (and display) when you change the mode to play it flipped.

 

I'm pretty sure I've seen a joystick (maybe a flight joystick?) where there's a little lock button thing that you can release and the buttons swivel around to be on the other side of the joystick (with the appropriate changing of button functions). I couldn't find it, though. I definitely remember seeing it on a youtube video.

 

And yeah, I know this would be completely unfeasible on an arcade cabinet or something, but was thinking it's just fine for a handheld joystick.

 

As for the ergonomics, yeah, it would create issues if the buttons are curved or angled or anything, but if just straight across, no problem. (I don't remember the button config on the joystick I remember seeing that converted....)

Edited January 1, 2017 by Eltigro

[+Black_Tiger]

My Intellivision controller had 15 buttons and we had a choice with which hand to use. Most Intellivision owners used their less dominant hand on the buttons. Not given a choice you get use to whatever you are given. I think it was the NES that set the standard for left handed controllers. Nintendo made that decision in 1982/83. Arcade games were all over the place with right and left hand controls. Games like Asteroids and Defender had left hand steering but right hand thrust and right hand rapid fire. Atari arcade games had right hand move and left hand fire. Some cabinets had equivalent fire/jump buttons on both sides of a centered joystick. Donkey Kong was backwards as you're doing most of the work with your left hand (unless your left handed), but remember with Donkey Kong they converted existing cabinets which was previously a shooter type game. Also note that the purpose of Arcade games was to generate revenue; and shorter playing times helps generate revenue. So forcing people to use their weaker hand is not a bad idea. To me, I think its better to use your dominant hand for control that can save your life, in most games that is movement. You can learn either way but some people might be better players if they could play the other way,

I still control the stick/disc of Intellivision/Collecovision/2600 controllers with my right hand.

 

It feels very unnatural not to, but it feels just as awkward to not control the pads/sticks from arcades and consoles which followed with my left hand.

[mr_me]

 

 

Yeah, the idea was that the controls were flipped like it does in the Lynx. I know that you can't just turn the thing upside down. That's why I referenced the Lynx. It changes the controls (and display) when you change the mode to play it flipped.

 

I'm pretty sure I've seen a joystick (maybe a flight joystick?) where there's a little lock button thing that you can release and the buttons swivel around to be on the other side of the joystick (with the appropriate changing of button functions). I couldn't find it, though. I definitely remember seeing it on a youtube video.

 

And yeah, I know this would be completely unfeasible on an arcade cabinet or something, but was thinking it's just fine for a handheld joystick.

 

As for the ergonomics, yeah, it would create issues if the buttons are curved or angled or anything, but if just straight across, no problem. (I don't remember the button config on the joystick I remember seeing that converted....)

The Gravis PC Gamepad has a switch so you can flip it over and play right handed. Its a fairly standard 4 button gamepad. It would be possible to make a completely symmetrical playstation type controller with a right/left switch. Ive also seen controllers where you can remove the individual components and swap them around. Edited January 2, 2017 by mr_me

[Eltigro]

Finally figured out where I saw that joystick that converted from right to left. It was on the VTech VSmile. It was mentioned in the Chameleon Hardware speculations thread and the light bulb came on. My daughter had one about seven years ago. In the video, he shows it changing at about the 40 second mark.