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Bryan

The UAV Rev. D Video Upgrade Thread

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Are you sure that's not the attract mode/screensaver kicking in? Does pressing a key make it stop?

Thinking back on it, that was probably it as I was messing quite a bit with tweaking the settings for direct capture with the 800 hooked up to the PVM. Visually, the bars appear the same as prior to my altering how I had it soldered into circuit. I'll try to hook it up to a modern, 2005 CRT I've got tonight just to see if the aging PVM, LCD S-Video direct, and elgato Game Capture HD are just not in the realm of what I've been using.

 

If anyone else has an elgato, what does your machine look like when you hook it up? Can you share a capture?

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Today I'm getting another batch of orders out and getting caught up on PMs. If I juggle too many orders at once, I tend to get confused. :)

 

Because of the 5200 reset issue, I'm making a small 4050 add-on board I'll send out for free to those wanting one. Basically, if the 4050 is socketed (this seems to be mostly 4-ports) then the only way the Plug-In board fits under the shield is to remove the 4050 which causes problems as the 4050 also handles the reset signal. The options are to solder the 4050 in (either by removing the socket or soldering it onto the bottom of the board) or building a low-profile version of UAV using the Kit. This LP version could have the terminal and jumpers soldered under the board instead of on top.

 

If there's ever a new revision (some day, I hope), I'm going to include the 4050 functionality on the UAV itself and make it a little easier to have manufactured.

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If there's ever a new revision (some day, I hope), I'm going to include the 4050 functionality on the UAV itself and make it a little easier to have manufactured.

That would be awesome.

 

Finally hooked it up to a 4th display. RCA Truflat CRT from 2005. Using composite. Seems like it could be a bit less washed out, but perhaps for the Atari 800 that is as good as it gets? Contrast is a bit cranked up on the display. I suppose I also haven't done any dialing on the potentiometer.

post-14540-0-52711500-1519170122_thumb.png

post-14540-0-16080000-1519170132_thumb.png

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That would be awesome.

 

Finally hooked it up to a 4th display. RCA Truflat CRT from 2005. Using composite. Seems like it could be a bit less washed out, but perhaps for the Atari 800 that is as good as it gets? Contrast is a bit cranked up on the display. I suppose I also haven't done any dialing on the potentiometer.

 

Maybe I've missed something here, but what is generating this bar display you're getting? If that's the output of the 800 Memo Pad or BASIC cartridge, something is seriously fubar. If you're doing a color bar generator program, it's still fubar. Try adjusting the color pot on the 800 and see what happens. Don't adjust the pot on the UAV until you see something approximating correct color output from the 800.

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Maybe I've missed something here, but what is generating this bar display you're getting? If that's the output of the 800 Memo Pad or BASIC cartridge, something is seriously fubar. If you're doing a color bar generator program, it's still fubar. Try adjusting the color pot on the 800 and see what happens. Don't adjust the pot on the UAV until you see something approximating correct color output from the 800.

I am using the bar generator from Bryan on page 26.

 

GRAPHICS 9: FOR K=0 TO 79: COLOR K/5: PLOT K,0:DRAWTO K,191: NEXT K: FOR K=0 TO 0 STEP 0: NEXT K

Edited by ckrtech

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I am using the bar generator from Bryan on page 26.

 

GRAPHICS 9: FOR K=0 TO 79: COLOR K/5: PLOT K,0:DRAWTO K,191: NEXT K: FOR K=0 TO 0 STEP 0: NEXT K

 

Ah, I missed that sorry.

 

So quick question: did you test the composite and S-video output of the 800 before you modded it? I have three of 'em and all them have excellent composite and razor-sharp chroma/luma without any mods (I can't say the same for any of my XL machines; surprisingly, my POS 130XE has great chroma/luma video).

 

I have UAVs in a 5 machines now and they all have great-to-perfect video; I can't imagine a UAV would make an 800 look like that if the machine is completely healthy.

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For stock - RF, Composite and S-Video all looked rather bad. RF and Composite were super dark and S-video was overdriven - but then I believe the "S-video" signal is WAY out of spec on a stock Atari 800 anyway.

 

The UAV made it a lot better across the board, but I guess I was expecting a bit more of a miracle?

 

I've got a scope if someone wants to see something. Appreciate any input.

Edited by ckrtech

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Today I'm getting another batch of orders out and getting caught up on PMs. If I juggle too many orders at once, I tend to get confused. :)

 

Because of the 5200 reset issue, I'm making a small 4050 add-on board I'll send out for free to those wanting one. Basically, if the 4050 is socketed (this seems to be mostly 4-ports) then the only way the Plug-In board fits under the shield is to remove the 4050 which causes problems as the 4050 also handles the reset signal. The options are to solder the 4050 in (either by removing the socket or soldering it onto the bottom of the board) or building a low-profile version of UAV using the Kit. This LP version could have the terminal and jumpers soldered under the board instead of on top.

 

If there's ever a new revision (some day, I hope), I'm going to include the 4050 functionality on the UAV itself and make it a little easier to have manufactured.

 

Oh man Bryan, I'm glad I read this. I installed my first board today in a 5200, and I got no signal. I thought maybe the 4050 was interfering somehow, so I pulled it and installed the board into the socket directly. Hooked up my cables, configured the jumpers, and it fired up right away. This is easily the most beautiful picture I've ever seen on an Atari, and I'd like to replace all my homebrew circuits with these boards! Unfortunately, I now have more soldering to do to put the 4052 back on the board.

 

Anyway, here are a couple of pics of my install (need to mount the jacks)...

 

post-40566-0-51305100-1519277792.jpg

 

post-40566-0-27568900-1519277793_thumb.jpg

 

Thanks Bryan for a great product, I'll be ordering a couple more soon!

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For stock - RF, Composite and S-Video all looked rather bad. RF and Composite were super dark and S-video was overdriven - but then I believe the "S-video" signal is WAY out of spec on a stock Atari 800 anyway.

 

The UAV made it a lot better across the board, but I guess I was expecting a bit more of a miracle?

 

I've got a scope if someone wants to see something. Appreciate any input.

 

If we indeed are talking about the original 800 and not the 800XL, then you already had the best S-Video that Atari ever shipped with any machine, and the one closest to being in spec, although the official S-Video standard didn't come slong until much later. So no surprise that the UAV although better, wasn't a dramatic difference on that particular Atari system.

 

In my research I came across a disturbing and misrepresented piece of history as told by Wikipedia...

The Commodore 64 in 1982 was perhaps the first product to separate chroma and luma signals. Although Commodore Business Machines did not use the term "S-Video" as the standard did not formally exist until 1987, a simple adapter connects the computer's "LCA" (luma-chroma-audio) 8-pin DIN socket to a S-Video display, or an S-Video device to the Commodore 1702 monitor's LCA jacks.

 

I don't know who wrote this piece of drivel, but it certainly wasn't someone who knew anything about the Atari 8-bit line ;) .

 

- Michael

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If we indeed are talking about the original 800 and not the 800XL, then you already had the best S-Video that Atari ever shipped with any machine, and the one closest to being in spec, although the official S-Video standard didn't come slong until much later.

Well the UAV eliminated the overdriven signal of the stock 800 and greatly minimized/practically eliminated the bars on the left side of the screen. The official s-video standard indeed did not come until later, and the image produced by my stock 800 outside the proper spec was quite terrible. It is possible there was (is) something else wrong or different about the machine. I'll report any news that comes along.

Edited by ckrtech

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In my research I came across a disturbing and misrepresented piece of history as told by Wikipedia...

 

I don't know who wrote this piece of drivel, but it certainly wasn't someone who knew anything about the Atari 8-bit line ;) .

 

- Michael

 

If you find wrong information on Wikipedia, just hit "EDIT" and correct it ;)

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Well the UAV eliminated the overdriven signal of the stock 800 and greatly minimized/practically eliminated the bars on the left side of the screen. The official s-video standard indeed did not come until later, and the image produced by my stock 800 outside the proper spec was quite terrible. It is possible there was (is) something else wrong or different about the machine. I'll report any news that comes along.

 

Yeah, there's gotta be something else going on with your poor machine. One of my 800's, pulled right off the shelf tonight for this test, looks pretty great through S-video (well, Chroma/Luma on my C1702 monitor). Totally stock machine.

 

post-30400-0-99656600-1519345794_thumb.jpg

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Yeah, there's gotta be something else going on with your poor machine. One of my 800's, pulled right off the shelf tonight for this test, looks pretty great through S-video (well, Chroma/Luma on my C1702 monitor). Totally stock machine.

 

attachicon.gif800Svid.jpg

I believe the C64 stock chroma luma output is also overdriven. The 1702 is designed to work with it and perhaps can just handle that much better than a display or capture device designed a couple of decades later that adheres to s-video specs.

 

I actually finished making an s-video cable and have a C1702. Maybe I will hook up the 800 to it (with UAV) if I can get the 800 movable.

 

Not to go Walter Peck on you, but could you also give me some shots of River Raid on your C1702 with your stock 800? Maybe a status bar close-up shot was well? Do the letters have acceptable, "normal for Atari" ghosting (artifact design)? I haven't messed with the pot much on the UAV.

 

Btw - After looking at some checks of the UAV on the oscilloscope, the output signal for luma seems just fine - so the elgato game capture HD seems to have issues with the extremes, and the PVM I am using is perhaps just a little "old" if the troubles you were seeing were related to brightness/contrast of the grey bars.

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I believe the C64 stock chroma luma output is also overdriven. The 1702 is designed to work with it and perhaps can just handle that much better than a display or capture device designed a couple of decades later that adheres to s-video specs.

 

I actually finished making an s-video cable and have a C1702. Maybe I will hook up the 800 to it (with UAV) if I can get the 800 movable.

 

Not to go Walter Peck on you, but could you also give me some shots of River Raid on your C1702 with your stock 800? Maybe a status bar close-up shot was well? Do the letters have acceptable, "normal for Atari" ghosting (artifact design)? I haven't messed with the pot much on the UAV.

 

Btw - After looking at some checks of the UAV on the oscilloscope, the output signal for luma seems just fine - so the elgato game capture HD seems to have issues with the extremes, and the PVM I am using is perhaps just a little "old" if the troubles you were seeing were related to brightness/contrast of the grey bars.

 

I've put my 800 back on the shelf for now (I've got my recently-built 1088XEL connected to the 1702's chroma/luma inputs right now. The composite inputs are shared with a 2600 (also with a UAV in it) and a stock 7800 (run though a $5 Goodwill VCR).

 

If you haven't ID'd any other problems with your 800 before then, I can dig it back out tomorrow. I'll try to capture photos with the 1702 as well as a 2003 Toshiba TV (with S-video) if I can move things around close enough.

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Holy Snapple.

 

I had my 1702 dialed up really high (contrast, color, etc) for my 2600 equipped with a LHE AV board - I unplugged the 2600 to plug in the 800 and had to dial everything way back! My goodness. That's the pop I was looking for! (I also recapped this 1702 last month)

 

Man. That is crazy vibrant compared to the other displays I have connected it to.

 

post-14540-0-55819600-1519351326_thumb.jpg

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Bryan, just got the second UAV and AC board that I ordered for my 7800. Was going to start the install with the AC board first, but when I opened my system it's a little different from the pics posted in the blog: https://atariage.com/forums/topic/273826-the-uav-blog-install-uav-ac-in-the-7800/

 

The pics for the install shows two resistors and C18 being unused. On my board however, all three spots are filled - but not with resistors. I'm still a bit new to modding and electronics in general, but aren't those diodes?

 

post-61132-0-27403500-1519542646_thumb.jpg

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Eh? Those are capacitors? Can I still solder the audio board across the one on the end or do I need to get power from somewhere else?

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you could paint them turquoise, or yellow, but yep, they're capacitors.

for the most part solder points should remain the same.

Edited by _The Doctor__

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oh! For some reason I was thinking those were resistors in Bryan's pics. Even though the written instructions clearly say capacitor. :facepalm:

 

 

One more question before I start. Until now I've been stripping the ends of the wires when working on things. Will I still get a good connection if I just use the solder to melt the plastic off?

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One more question before I start. Until now I've been stripping the ends of the wires when working on things. Will I still get a good connection if I just use the solder to melt the plastic off?

 

Strip the wire. The plastic will introduce contaminants in the melted solder, plus toxic fumes. The fumes don't matter much for one job but if you work on electronics a lot, you don't need to make a habit of breathing that crap. But you'll get a cleaner, more reliable and predictable solder joint if you strip the wire first.

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Ok, I've got it installed according to the pdf in the blog. For this one I ordered a trrs jack and cable from retrofixes, but they won't be here for a few days yet so I've got a temp rca cable connected to the composite teminal.

 

The colors are way off and adjusting the pot on the UAV doesn't help at all.

 

Tower Toppler through the RF modulator

 

post-61132-0-99740700-1519665014_thumb.jpg

 

Same screen through composite on the UAV, with the UAV's pot right in the center. If I turn the pot to the right the tower turns an eye-popping red, turn it all the way to the left and it becomes a dull brownish orange, at no position does it turn to the purple color I get through the RF

 

post-61132-0-49374500-1519665011_thumb.jpg

 

I have noticed a small difference between RF and composite on the 2600 version of Ms, Pacman but it's so slight that the camera on my tablet doesn't pick it up.

 

a pic of my install

 

post-61132-0-24079700-1519665019_thumb.jpg

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Don't use tower for pic. Adjustments. It looks entirely different on a modded 7800.

Something like pole postion 2 will have the same color no matter the output. Joust looks the same too. Tower toppler make its colors with an apple II like process that the mods (s video definitely) doesn't reproduce.

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