cjameslv Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) Updated first posts with newest info and replies. Let's keep the posts coming, we want to hear from everyone! Edited December 29, 2016 by cjameslv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sncboom2k Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Yes I was under the impression it would be 25 per table. At 50 a table - the small amounts of sales I make would be a wash. I do more enjoy dressing up the event and enjoying nice well thought out displays with functional equipment than selling equipment / software - but I have so much of it, it makes sense to bring it and let event goers pick through it. Signage and presentation go a long way with a professional look. I think it makes it more enjoyable. The square footage alone says a lot about the event. Being squished into a tiny room is horrible and shows no pride for the layout, space, or arrangements for the presenters or guests. 2 more of my cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TellarHK Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) Oh, I think it's safe to say that we can add my partner James W. to the list of non-attendees of CommVEx at this point, so there's one more. $25 for a table sounds fine by me, but go ahead and count me as still in for $50. Consider the other $25 a donation. If this does take off, I will try and pitch in a bit more if my finances allow me to do so over the next few months. When it comes to CommVEx the cost of the show itself was always such a non-factor in the whole equation that it just seemed silly that somehow there was such resistance to increasing the attendance cost by even ten bucks a head in order to avoid a cramped, sweltering, and disorganized mess every year, because, let's face it, most of us are shelling out for airfare, gas, hotels, meals away from home, entertainment, etc. I suspect that very few of us would be missing the price of a breakfast at Hash House A Go-Go in order to have a good time and secure the future of the event. Hell, the scramble for table space at CommVEx honestly cost James and I at least $100-120 each year for our second and third trips down for the show because we had to plan around spending a night in the hotel just to try and grab a table to set up on for the duration. And that's not even counting his time off from work to spend the extra day on vacation. I suspect that we're not the only ones that planned around that scramble, either. Edit: I know that some people worked really hard to make the event work and work well, and I think it's through that effort alone that it managed to be even slightly possible to keep track of things every year. Please don't take my 'disorganized' remark to represent anything other than my interactions with the one person that embodies the problems I think many of us have had. Edited December 29, 2016 by TellarHK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragos Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 $25 for admission or a table seems high. Back when we charged it was $10, but we were a small club putting on a big show(noone donated anything, much less $600) ECCC/VCFMW is completely free for vendors and attendees. Want a larger crowd, go that route. It has worked for the last 10 years here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TellarHK Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 $25 for admission or a table seems high. Back when we charged it was $10, but we were a small club putting on a big show(noone donated anything, much less $600) ECCC/VCFMW is completely free for vendors and attendees. Want a larger crowd, go that route. It has worked for the last 10 years here... My suspicion is that it's actually harder financially to afford a smaller show than a larger one. A bigger show has more attraction for vendors who can pay for table space, particularly a multi-platform show like ECCC/VCFMW, and can draw on a much larger potential pool for donations and volunteer labor and time. I know very little about the expenses for CommVEx, but I would suspect the expenses tend to run north of $40/person if not significantly more given the amount and type of space required to avoid people passing out from heatstroke. (which has happened in the recent past) Most of the others in this thread would probably know actual figures. And don't let *anything* I say represent anything other than my opinions, either. I have no idea what's going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimDrew Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) dragos, I am guessing that your room was probably affordable and you didn't have to pay $2000 for the room for a weekend, like we do in Las Vegas. Something has to help cover that cost. For CommVEx it has been sponsors, admission fee of $25 per person to attend, and raffle prizes that were donated and auctioned off. If you don't attract new people, you will never maintain (or grow) the event. This is why I have always thought admission should be free. CommVEx requires a $25 entry fee just to walk around and look what's there, and that's absurd. Edited December 29, 2016 by JimDrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnicron Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 The key to how later Commvex years were financed were the raffles. The door costs probably cover 50-80% of room price. The raffles is where the other half or more comes from. The Plaza offered a nice room for around $2000-2500 I understand. With around 30 people attending at $25 it covered less than half the room cost but the other money came from the raffles. I personally handled the money for one year and we had around $3000+ in the till at the end of the event. If there is not a raffle or a sponsor for the event to cover some of the costs, the event can not pay for itself. For a raffle to exist there has to be items that people want. In the past there has been donations from individuals and user groups of rather desirable commodore hardware that people wanted to get, so the ticket sales were decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimDrew Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 By the way, as Joshua pointed out, offering table availability ahead of time typically reduces the overall cost to participants by not having to come a day early just to ensure that they can get a table. This also provides the organizer with an idea of a head count of attendees. I also know that it really reduces the stress of people coming and worrying about not getting any table space - which was a serious problem in all CommVEx events I have attended in the last 5 years, except last year with the giant room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnicron Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 By the way, as Joshua pointed out, offering table availability ahead of time typically reduces the overall cost to participants by not having to come a day early just to ensure that they can get a table. This also provides the organizer with an idea of a head count of attendees. I also know that it really reduces the stress of people coming and worrying about not getting any table space - which was a serious problem in all CommVEx events I have attended in the last 5 years, except last year with the giant room. I had been asking for years to be able to preregister not only attendance (even if free) but also tables/vendor space. Never was going to happen. I was doing the badges for the last several years...Trying in my own way to make things better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragos Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) at C4 the room cost $1300 (when we were charging $10) I know the venue we have for VCFMW is significantly higher and it is still free for everyone. Get creative, put on an event people want to attend (ie not run by Robert) and it will grow organically. But to each their own, from the pics and videos, I haven't seen anything worth the trip yet( and I love Vegas and have friends there) oh, and FYI, we funded the significant difference at C4 with funds from our clubs treasury... We had a treasury from sales of our massive inventory and things like the 64NIC+. Why don't you guys finance a hardware design like we did and make money off the sales? we sold 150 NICs before we bowed out and Jim Brain took over sales. Edited December 29, 2016 by dragos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TellarHK Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) There have been some great presentations and speakers over the few years I've attended, both from the history of Commodore and from the modern community. And in my opinion, it's really been a fundamentally good crowd of people to spend the weekend with. Is it something on the scale of VCMFW/ECCC? No, and it probably won't be. But I do think a change in management and organization to better serve the people who do attend CommVEx on a yearly basis could help expand the reach and attract higher attendance numbers. But as Jim and Tim have pointed out, the economics here are tough, and in addition to that the timing is also going to be a bit tricky in order to pull this off. If this is going to be a CommVEx alternative/replacement/evolution (I have no idea what to classify this as) it's going to need to have some kind of financial picture in very short order to get space and allow for people to make plans to attend. There isn't (as yet) a single unified user group that can claim sponsorship/host duties, and from what I can tell we're less than 48 hours into this whole conversation going public. Long term, and with some further planning and a chance to see what can work and what won't for the group of people who already attend CommVEx events, there could be a far broader range of funding methods to explore like your idea of perhaps manufacturing something to help "sponsor" the event. It's a good idea, but I wouldn't imagine it being doable within the next six to seven months before the usual CommVEx timeframe, let alone in a way that could generate money soon enough to make an impact. I think that there are a whole host of potentially good ideas that can be considered for funding, but in a case like this you've got to work with what you have, at least for now. It helps in this case that the people who are starting this whole discussion are far, far more motivated and knowledgeable about how things have "worked" for CommVEx events in the past, to the point where my first reaction upon seeing this was that CommVEx is already completely untenable without them. Edited December 29, 2016 by TellarHK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnicron Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 (edited) at C4 the room cost $1300 (when we were charging $10) I know the venue we have for VCFMW is significantly higher and it is still free for everyone. Get creative, put on an event people want to attend (ie not run by Robert) and it will grow organically. But to each their own, from the pics and videos, I haven't seen anything worth the trip yet( and I love Vegas and have friends there) oh, and FYI, we funded the significant difference at C4 with funds from our clubs treasury... We had a treasury from sales of our massive inventory and things like the 64NIC+. Why don't you guys finance a hardware design like we did and make money off the sales? we sold 150 NICs before we bowed out and Jim Brain took over sales. In reality, Commvex has mostly been about the social aspect of the show since almost no one has been allowed to participate in growing or changing the show due to Robert. The Frenso Commodore Group with Robert as the president has been running the show since day one with the support of the Vegas 5C club. Now a whole new organic support group needs to be developed that comprises the key supporters (i.e attendees) of previous Commvex shows that have been disenfranchised by Robert and his failure to listen to his actual supporters. I hope that multiple user groups and key projects can help in the future. Problem is Robert has been juggernaut in all the Commodore groups in the area and even travels internationally for commodore. He "runs" Socal sccaners group, Fresno, Commvex and even took over Pacific Commodore Expo NW from the Portland Commodore group (PDX) with little approval from PDX and called it PaCommEx. see http://blog.retro-link.com/2016/11/floor-plan-of-pacommex-exhibit-area.html Robert had been critical in getting guest speakers for the event and raffle prizes for the show. People had complaints about issues and things did not change much until we had the larger Commvex room at the Plaza which helps a lot and Robert fought everyone over but it happened. In reality Robert did not want help in planning or running the show. This time he ruined the event by using the California with the MAJOR limitations as to render the show UNUSABLE for this type of event. Jim Drew had donated thousands of dollars in hardware and cash in the past several years to keep the show healthy and growing and without him we would not had the larger room. I would have stopped coming last year if we had the same attendance and the small room. There also was a c64 audio digitizer project that was sold at Commvex and a few user group meets by Robert worked on by various members (I think PDX group also). Robert was very sensitive about price for the device and I don't believe made large sums of money on it. With Robert being president of the Fresno group and Fresno being the primary usergroup with control of the Funds for Commvex, can the Fresno usergroup be involved in a different show without Robert's blessing? There will now be thousands of dollars wasted on a show will have an attendance of 5-10 people, maybe less. Commvex has been mostly successful even with the problems people have had. That is why it continued. Robert had done mostly a good job until now. We have all been scratching our heads in the last few years trying to figure out how to get even a little control over some aspects of the show, without eliminating Robert, to work on elements of the event that Robert had been neglecting. Now Robert has eliminated us, the attendees. Lets see how that works. Edited December 29, 2016 by omnicron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimDrew Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 There is still ample time to book a location and make arrangements for an event. I would prefer to use the Plaza, just because of the convenience of the restaurants and activities. This makes it a bit more family oriented compared to one of the Station Casinos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TellarHK Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 I would prefer to use the Plaza, just because of the convenience of the restaurants and activities. This makes it a bit more family oriented compared to one of the Station Casinos. I love the location of the Plaza, just wish the bathrooms actually had enough room for the door *and* the toilet. I think in all my trips to Vegas, the Plaza and the Westgate (formerly the Hilton) are my two favorite places to stay just because of location. One gets you Fremont Street, the other gets you the monorail to the strip. I agree that family friendliness will be a big point for whatever venue might be used, a lot of Vegas options exist, but could be intimidatingly skeevy to pass through. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flnettles Posted December 29, 2016 Share Posted December 29, 2016 Just to clarify, 5C's is hosting/sponsoring this event along with Jim Drew. We are hoping other user groups in our surrounding states will help with their attendance, participation and table reservations. Forrest VP 5C's 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnicron Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 (edited) Although I am not against a different venue than the Plaza, I have a feeling getting a different venue so late in the game for the price the of the Plaza would be very hard. In addition, the Plaza has a history with commodore events and they feel very comfortable with hosting these types of event. Edited December 30, 2016 by omnicron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimDrew Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 I would prefer the Plaza myself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flnettles Posted January 2, 2017 Share Posted January 2, 2017 5C's welcomes new members Jim Drew, Tim Waite and John Ferrell! Anyone interested in joining our user group may reach me via email for signup and $12 yearly dues details at flnettles@hotmail.com. More members will make this new event stronger! Forrest Nettles VP - 5C's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjameslv Posted January 3, 2017 Author Share Posted January 3, 2017 Welcome to 5C's guys! Alots been going on in emails. Still working on getting more to join forum chat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flnettles Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Also a Welcome to 5C's to Joshua Shiflet - rockotiger@gmail.com! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjameslv Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 Has anyone put any thought to using Palace Station? They have free parking, huge rooms with a/c and are located right off the strip instead of downtown. Food is just ok nothing great but there is alot of restaurants across the street. I don't know prices but i can find out more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sncboom2k Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I think it would be wise to look at a # of locations. Can't hurt! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flnettles Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Jim Drew has contacted Palace Station and they are like double the cost of the Plaza, and also have the same crazy per-hour policy for any kind of Friday night or early morning Saturday setup or later tear-down time frame for Sunday evening, so it's unfortunately a no-go. I believe Jim has also checked other venues as well. We'll discuss it at our Jan meeting but it looks pretty certain that it needs to be the Plaza for a number of reasons. Hopefully Saj can get some firm answers on booking reserved dates on the July 29th-30th weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjameslv Posted January 6, 2017 Author Share Posted January 6, 2017 Jim Drew has contacted Palace Station and they are like double the cost of the Plaza, and also have the same crazy per-hour policy for any kind of Friday night or early morning Saturday setup or later tear-down time frame for Sunday evening, so it's unfortunately a no-go. I believe Jim has also checked other venues as well. We'll discuss it at our Jan meeting but it looks pretty certain that it needs to be the Plaza for a number of reasons. Hopefully Saj can get some firm answers on booking reserved dates on the July 29th-30th weekend. Ahh k thank Forrest. Well ty to Jim for looking into it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flnettles Posted January 7, 2017 Share Posted January 7, 2017 And also a welcome aboard to Joshua Johnston from Reno! Keep them 5C's signups coming, folks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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