1088XEL Alternative Mother-Board Project

[Theoryman]

 

Doesn't appear to need any

 

- Michael

 

Then, I am eagerly awaiting the public release!

 

September?

 

--

[Dropcheck]

Hi Michael,

 

Saw that you had posted the 1.1 v schematics on your website through a broker. I noticed the date is more recent than the last version posted here. I'm assuming that v1.1 includes all corrections and additions made since the prototype including the video workaround for Sophia and VBXE. Would you be willing to post them here as well.

[+mytek]

Hi Michael,

 

Saw that you had posted the 1.1 v schematics on your website through a broker. I noticed the date is more recent than the last version posted here. I'm assuming that v1.1 includes all corrections and additions made since the prototype including the video workaround for Sophia and VBXE. Would you be willing to post them here as well.

 

Ohh you caught me doing some late night experimenting with some widgets on my website I've changed it to something a bit more friendly (check it out).

 

NOTICE: THE PROVIDED LINK IN THIS POST WILL BE WHERE ALL OF THE LATEST TECHNICAL DOCUMENTATION WILL BE MADE AVAILABLE

 

At this point in time, I just need to verify that the PCB layout is good to go, and then it's off to have one made for final testing. ETA on the full release is looking like end of September at the latest.

 

- Michael

Edited August 23, 2017 by mytekcontrols

[+mytek]

Just a heads up on the custom parts for the Realan case...

The 3D printable Cart Tunnel is made on the thinner side of things, and probably isn't suitable to be printed on all printers or by all services. Also the best material I've tried thus far is Polyamide, which is a nylon based product. The first time I printed this was with a company called i.materialise based in Belgium. They did an excellent job, and gave me a part with perfect precision looking identical to what it did in Tinkercad where I originally created it. However I wanted a place a bit more local to me, since I live in the United States, so I tried a few different print houses I located through Treatstock, and also tried a few other materials (ABS, PLA, and also a 2nd Polyamide printing for a quality comparison test). The non-Polyamide ones were pretty good, except the cart opening fingers were very easy to break off (they are very thin). The place I had do the 2nd Polyamide version did a horrible job. So I came full circle and had another one that i had revised for height and width made once again by i.materialise, and once again they delivered a fantastic 3D print. So bottom line, I highly recommend going with these guys if you do not have a means to do it yourself. Here's a purchase link to have it made: 1088XEL Cart Tunnel revD

 

Cut-Away View as seen in Tinkercad

 

And here is the STL file (same one that is packaged in the Realan Parts ZIP file on my site): 1088XEL Cart Tunnel_revD.stl.zip

 

- Michael

Edited August 15, 2017 by mytekcontrols

[Xebec]

Just a heads up on the custom parts for the Realan case...

 

The 3D printable Cart Tunnel is made on the thinner side of things, and probably isn't suitable to be printed on all printers or by all services. Also the best material I've tried thus far is Polyamide, which is a nylon based product. The first time I printed this was with a company called i.materialise based in Belgium. They did an excellent job, and gave me a part with perfect precision looking identical to what it did in Tinkercad where I originally created it. However I wanted a place a bit more local to me, since I live in the United States, so I tried a few different print houses I located through Treatstock, and also tried a few other materials (ABS, PLA, and also a 2nd Polyamide printing for a quality comparison test). The non-Polyamide ones were pretty good, except the cart opening fingers were very easy to break off (they are very thin). The place I had do the 2nd Polyamide version did a horrible job. So I came full circle and had another one that i had revised for height and width made once again by i.materialise, and once again they delivered a fantastic 3D print. So bottom line, I highly recommend going with these guys if you do not have a means to do it yourself. Here's a purchase link to have it made: 1088XEL Cart Tunnel revD

 

Cut-Away View as seen in Tinkercad

 

And here is the STL file (same one that is packaged in the Realan Parts ZIP file on my site): 1088XEL Cart Tunnel_revD.stl.zip

 

- Michael

 

Just FYI - from the pic - the little ridge at the top may be a little hard to print for consumer printers because it's a flat out 90 degree surface out of nowheres.. If you can feather it up somehow then it shouldn't require any support material..

 

The rest of it looks pretty easily printable. Even with the ridge it still might print with a good enough fan and proper print speed.. I may try to print later for the fun of it..

[+mytek]

 

Just FYI - from the pic - the little ridge at the top may be a little hard to print for consumer printers because it's a flat out 90 degree surface out of nowheres.. If you can feather it up somehow then it shouldn't require any support material..

 

The rest of it looks pretty easily printable. Even with the ridge it still might print with a good enough fan and proper print speed.. I may try to print later for the fun of it..

 

Thanks for the design feedback. the purpose of the ridge is to add support to the top panel, since especially on the left side of the panel the aluminum material remaining after machining is very narrow. Along with the top panel, it also minimizes flex of the motherboard when extracting a cart (downward flex is handled by using 6-32 x 1/4" long threaded spacers underneath the board).

 

I suppose the ridge could be just carried all the way down, thus creating a thicker stronger part, but then it would encroach more into the surrounding area on the motherboard and likely not fit in some areas, or obscure labeling on the MPBI port.

 

Here's some pics (BTW, the green color is my failed experiment at trying to dye the plastic gray )

 

 

 

 

Please post some pics of your results

 

- Michael

Edited August 15, 2017 by mytekcontrols

[Xebec]

What dimensions should this be overall? outer diameter for the tunnel, and total height?

[+mytek]

What dimensions should this be overall? outer diameter for the tunnel, and total height?

 

 

Without the ridge, the footprint = 27 mm x 74 mm

 

BTW, it would be cool if you could post a video of the part being printed (might need to do time lapse).

 

Attention: I just created a link to a copy of this in TinkerCad. You can play around with it there, but keep in mind so can anyone else, so it might be good to make a copy of it for your own use.

 

- Michael

Edited August 15, 2017 by mytekcontrols

[+mytek]

Cart Tunnel Mounting

 

 

 

- Michael

[Xebec]

Alright, rough and quick 3D print for the cartridge 'tunnel'. Please note this is a homebuilt printer by me, and it hasn't been calibrated yet. I was definitely running this filament a bit hot, and I think I was extruding too much filament which is why you see the bulges on each line. This was also printed fast = more vibration.

 

The good news is, the top lip printed ok, and I put some pressure on it and it feels solid.. no support material needed, and this was printed in PLA, I believe layer height is 0.32 mm. (Can go down to 0.1 reliably once this printer is calibrated).

 

Pulling it off the bed, it looks like I could have used a little support material for the center/bottom part -- but what's left feels solid enough to work. This needed ~ 5 meters of 3.0mm filament to print, so as cheap as ~ 70 cents in plastic, plus probably 0.2kwH of electricity.

 

EDIT: My calipers agree with the dimensions - thanks for posting those. I'm seeing 70.30mm Z and ~ 26.7 x 73.7 on the foot print which is probably my printers' calibration and not the CAD file.

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Xebec

[+DrVenkman]

 

At this point in time, I just need to verify that the PCB layout is good to go, and then it's off to have one made for final testing. ETA on the full release is looking like end of September at the latest.

 

 

Hi Michael - I know it's been discussed a few times throughout this thread, but do you (yet?) know of anyone planning a group-buy of boards and/or any idea of how much it would cost per bare board?

[+mytek]

Alright, rough and quick 3D print for the cartridge 'tunnel'. Please note this is a homebuilt printer by me, and it hasn't been calibrated yet. I was definitely running this filament a bit hot, and I think I was extruding too much filament which is why you see the bulges on each line. This was also printed fast = more vibration.

 

The good news is, the top lip printed ok, and I put some pressure on it and it feels solid.. no support material needed, and this was printed in PLA, I believe layer height is 0.32 mm. (Can go down to 0.1 reliably once this printer is calibrated).

 

Pulling it off the bed, it looks like I could have used a little support material for the center/bottom part -- but what's left feels solid enough to work. This needed ~ 5 meters of 3.0mm filament to print, so as cheap as ~ 70 cents in plastic, plus probably 0.2kwH of electricity.

 

EDIT: My calipers agree with the dimensions - thanks for posting those. I'm seeing 70.30mm Z and ~ 26.7 x 73.7 on the foot print which is probably my printers' calibration and not the CAD file.

 

IMG_20170815_192728430.jpg

 

Although the outside is a bit rough, the inside (which is more important) doesn't look bad at all. How strong are the cart door fingers?

 

 

 

Hi Michael - I know it's been discussed a few times throughout this thread, but do you (yet?) know of anyone planning a group-buy of boards and/or any idea of how much it would cost per bare board

 

I think MacRorie is still planning on doing a group buy of both the boards and the parts required to assemble them. Cost per board of course depends upon quantity, and will vary greatly. I'm intentionally staying out of the loop on this aspect, so that I can better focus my time on the design creation, of which I still have some future support products planned (I'm not ready to say what that will be ).

 

- Michael

[Xebec]

 

Although the outside is a bit rough, the inside (which is more important) doesn't look bad at all. How strong are the cart door fingers?

 

 

I don't have a way to measure actual force, but i pushed on them pretty hard in various directions and they're not moving.

 

I also inserted a few cartridges, and everything seems good. My Lode Runner, Star Raiders, Super Breakout, and Spy Hunter all stick through nicely, however the SIDE 2 cartridge I have appears to not stick through as much. It *might* be an optical illusion because the SIDE 2 PCB leads also appear 'longer' or 'taller' than the other cartridges.

 

If someone wants this cartridge tunnel and you're in the USA just PM me an address and i'll throw in it a USPS mailbox. no charge.

[Lord Thag]

Hopefully the nice case you folks came up with is drool proof

 

Put me on a list for one of these when they are ready to go. Amazing work to everyone involved!

[+Stephen]

Alright, rough and quick 3D print for the cartridge 'tunnel'. Please note this is a homebuilt printer by me, and it hasn't been calibrated yet. I was definitely running this filament a bit hot, and I think I was extruding too much filament which is why you see the bulges on each line. This was also printed fast = more vibration.

 

The good news is, the top lip printed ok, and I put some pressure on it and it feels solid.. no support material needed, and this was printed in PLA, I believe layer height is 0.32 mm. (Can go down to 0.1 reliably once this printer is calibrated).

 

Pulling it off the bed, it looks like I could have used a little support material for the center/bottom part -- but what's left feels solid enough to work. This needed ~ 5 meters of 3.0mm filament to print, so as cheap as ~ 70 cents in plastic, plus probably 0.2kwH of electricity.

 

EDIT: My calipers agree with the dimensions - thanks for posting those. I'm seeing 70.30mm Z and ~ 26.7 x 73.7 on the foot print which is probably my printers' calibration and not the CAD file.

 

IMG_20170815_192728430.jpg

This makes me want to try adjusting my printer again. I don't know if I'll ever get decent prints from it. I think 4 years ago I only paid $500 for it. It's an XYZ Davinci 1.0 but I am running the Repetier .92 firmware on it.

 

Perhaps I will give it a go making sure all belts are properly tensioned, everything requiring light oil has it, etc.

[Xebec]

This makes me want to try adjusting my printer again. I don't know if I'll ever get decent prints from it. I think 4 years ago I only paid $500 for it. It's an XYZ Davinci 1.0 but I am running the Repetier .92 firmware on it.

 

Perhaps I will give it a go making sure all belts are properly tensioned, everything requiring light oil has it, etc.

 

PM me if you have any questions. I am not familiar with that printer specifically, but i've built 3 different Prusa/Mendel models over the last 4 years and have upgraded many parts so I'm pretty familiar. To be fair it's very frustrating when they don't like to print, but very rewarding when they do. My biggest tip -- The extruder and hot end are more important than the rest of the printer..

 

Also consider posting here -- there's probably good people familiar with your specific model -

https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/

[Dropcheck]

Hey Michael,

 

On the SIO alternate connector, what is the part # you are basing your footprint on?

 

I'm starting to buy up the more expensive items slowly and more than likely this item will not change in the final version.

[danwinslow]

Apologies if this has been asked before - Is anyone planning on selling assembled versions of the board and/or casing?

[+mytek]

Hey Michael,

 

On the SIO alternate connector, what is the part # you are basing your footprint on?

 

I'm starting to buy up the more expensive items slowly and more than likely this item will not change in the final version.

 

If you are talking about the SIO-AUX (J5), that is based upon Dig-Key P/N: WM2703-ND (Molex P/N: 0022112052). And you are correct that this will not change.

 

Electrically speaking, it is a pin for pin match to the I/O connection on the SIO2SD sold by Lotharek. J5's original purpose was to mate with that board, but of course it can be used for other things such as your custom S-Drive board.

 

Mating Conn P/N: WM2003-ND

Terminal (tin) P/N: WM1114-ND

Terminal (gold) P/N: WM2312-ND

 

 

- Michael

Edited August 16, 2017 by mytekcontrols

[+mytek]

Apologies if this has been asked before - Is anyone planning on selling assembled versions of the board and/or casing?

 

MacRorie has voiced his intention to sell these, but I'm not sure if that is as a kit or fully assembled. His website currently only states that this will be the production home of the 1088XEL as well as a few other items, which kind of implies that he'll be selling fully assembled units, but it would be best to PM him just to be sure.

 

- Michael

[+MrFish]

Here's some pics (BTW, the green color is my failed experiment at trying to dye the plastic gray )

 

Looks fantastic, green cartridge slot or not.

 

Correct me if this has been discussed already (haven't been following too closely as of late), have you explored any other options for the toggle switch on the side?

It looks alright, but I think something more modern or low-profile would fit in better with the rest of the design (perhaps a rocker or slide switch).

 

I know you're repurposing existing openings there, so maybe less options that will work for that reason?

Edited August 16, 2017 by MrFish

[Dropcheck]

 

If you are talking about the SIO-AUX (J5), that is based upon Dig-Key P/N: WM2703-ND (Molex P/N: 0022112052). And you are correct that this will not change.

 

Electrically speaking, it is a pin for pin match to the I/O connection on the SIO2SD sold by Lotharek. J5's original purpose was to mate with that board, but of course it can be used for other things such as your custom S-Drive board.

 

Mating Conn P/N: WM2003-ND

Terminal (tin) P/N: WM1114-ND

Terminal (gold) P/N: WM2312-ND

 

 

- Michael

 

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

I meant the main SIO connector. You indicate a DB15M alternative connector, but not a specific part #. Various DB15M connectors have slightly different footprints based on the manufacture's fancies.

[+Firedawg]

 

MacRorie has voiced his intention to sell these, but I'm not sure if that is as a kit or fully assembled. His website currently only states that this will be the production home of the 1088XEL as well as a few other items, which kind of implies that he'll be selling fully assembled units, but it would be best to PM him just to be sure.

 

- Michael

 

I mentioned interest in providing a quantity purchase for just the boards, and provide forward shipping to those interested. I do not want to cut into MacRorie's offerings as I know the more the better on purchasing boards & components. Mac has managed sizable request for carts amongst other offerings so I have confidence that he has the head room to meet the demands for this project. I'm here if he needs any assistance.

 

Mike

[+mytek]

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

I meant the main SIO connector. You indicate a DB15M alternative connector, but not a specific part #. Various DB15M connectors have slightly different footprints based on the manufacture's fancies.

 

No problem, it was a good exercise in specifying some stuff that needs to be nailed down anyway

 

As for the 'alternative' to the SIO connector which is actually a DA15M (see note below), it is the shorter .318" variety (Jameco P/N: 71125) .

I think these guys are becoming less common, since I wasn't successful at locating this at either Digi-Key or Mouser, unlike the high density triple row type used for VGA.

 

However just to make this public knowledge, we got a generous donation of 50 real honest to goodness NOS SIO PCB Jacks, with a possibility of more to come from that same source. And I also know of one other source that has 100+ that could probably be persuaded to part with some of those as well. So we're sitting pretty for MacRorie's first XEL run, and won't need to substitute the DA15M.

 

--------

I know everybody calls these things DB no matter how many pins it has, but this is officially a DA series due to having 15 pins.

Quote from Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-subminiature)...
"Each shell size usually (see below for exceptions) corresponds to a certain number of pins or sockets: A with 15, B with 25, C with 37, D with 50, and E with 9." 

--------

 

- Michael

Edited August 16, 2017 by mytekcontrols

[+mytek]

Looks fantastic, green cartridge slot or not.

 

Not green anymore

 

 

Thanks to this.

 

 

I found out what went wrong. There are two different types of dye that RIT makes, one for cloth and one for synthetics such as rayon, nylon, ect.

 

On my first go around I got the one for cloth, and although I grabbed the one to dye something gray, since it wasn't meant for plastics it came out green instead. So trying to cut my losses I figured I better go for something darker that would cover over the green color, and I picked Graphite which gave me a very nice black color. Darker than what i was originally shooting for, but none the less it will make a good match for the black top panel.

 

Correct me if this has been discussed already (haven't been following too closely as of late), have you explored any other options for the toggle switch on the side?

It looks alright, but I think something more modern or low-profile would fit in better with the rest of the design (perhaps a rocker or slide switch).

 

I know you're repurposing existing openings there, so maybe less options that will work for that reason?

Yes I agree that the toggle isn't the sexiest looking mouse select switch option, but it was the least expensive, and as you said re-purposes holes that were already there. Another option would be to add it to the top panel in the form of a rocker switch, having the associated LEDs to either side of it. But this also gets a bit trickier with the Mouse Switch PCB, since the switch would need to mounted first to the panel (pressed in) and then soldered to the PCB underneath. I suppose this is all doable, and perhaps I'll look into it if and when I make another top panel. but for now it is what it is.

 

However with all that said, the toggle from an ergonomic standpoint actually makes more sense and is very easy to operate, and it also gives better visual feedback as to what position it is in.

 

- Michael