Retroblox

[Flojomojo]

^^^THAT is how it's done, son!!

 

Bespoke, beautiful hardware is nice to have, but in the absence of a mass market, you're looking at stupidly high boutique prices. Pretty plastic molds surrounding commodity hardware is gilding the lily.

[godslabrat]

Well, considering PolyMega basically said that Seedi was an "open source rip off" of them, it seems like an excellent payback.

[phoenixdownita]

Well, considering PolyMega basically said that Seedi was an "open source rip off" of them, it seems like an excellent payback.

When? Seedi didn't have an FPGA and sure as hell physical CD based emulation has not been invented by the SchpolyMega guys.

I have recollection of MagicEngine and KegaFusion supporting physical CD based emu long long time ago, in fact it was a pleasure to use DaemonTools over images with them as well.

 

EDIT:

Their only claim to fame now is to bring mednafen Saturn to the forefront but that's not their doing and as shown in the video is nothing they really can claim as their own either (the fact that it was thrown in the mix late in the game is telling).

 

Their one trick pony would have been hybrid FPGA emu (but that's not working according to them ... lol), once gone it's gonna be a matter of months before a Seedi setup (maybe even on ARM) appears from PRC, CD-reader and all at a very attractive price.

[mr_me]

Has there been any other dedicated emulation box on the market that reads CDs. I think Hybrid emulation only applies to cartridges. Didn't Bleem work with CDs.

Edited September 26, 2018 by mr_me

[philyso]

Which companies have signed up so far, and can we expect to see a storefront packed with retro games a few months after launch?

We have one very large publishing deal in the works right now which will take the lead for the store. This company actually found us on the show floor at E3 - we didn't have any contact with them previously - and played the system extensively both during the show and a few weeks later at their offices with their staff. For them, Polymega is a very natural fit for their game portfolio.

Piko Interactive?

Edited September 26, 2018 by philyso

[godslabrat]

When? Seedi didn't have an FPGA and sure as hell physical CD based emulation has not been invented by the SchpolyMega guys.

I have recollection of MagicEngine and KegaFusion supporting physical CD based emu long long time ago, in fact it was a pleasure to use DaemonTools over images with them as well.

 

EDIT:

Their only claim to fame now is to bring mednafen Saturn to the forefront but that's not their doing and as shown in the video is nothing they really can claim as their own either (the fact that it was thrown in the mix late in the game is telling).

 

Their one trick pony would have been hybrid FPGA emu (but that's not working according to them ... lol), once gone it's gonna be a matter of months before a Seedi setup (maybe even on ARM) appears from PRC, CD-reader and all at a very attractive price.

When pressed as to why they weren't answering questions, Poly said "We've seen too many copycats churning out open-source solutions obviously copied from us." The timing strongly suggested it was a Seedi reference.

[DurradonXylles]

Has there been any other dedicated emulation box on the market that reads CDs. I think Hybrid emulation only applies to cartridges. Didn't Bleem work with CDs.

 

There hasn't been any CD-based emulation boxes on the market, but that's a bit of mute point since right now there still isn't. The Polymega still isn't on the market, and neither is the Seedi, and they shouldn't be treated as they are because they don't have a product to sell to consumers (and pre-ordering the Polymega doesn't count since they don't have a unit to show right now).

 

The "Hybrid emulation" nonsense has been dropped by Playmaji because, as it turns out, you cannot lump a FPGA and CPU onto the same board and expect them to work properly together since the former uses gate arrays and the latter almost always using machine language at lowest levels of operation. You'd need to build a board from the ground up that allows for both to operate independently and still allow for communication where necessary, something that would require at least double the angel investment of $500k they purported to have, and a console about as complex in board design as the Atari Jaguar. This legitimately makes me wonder how they expect FPGA based modules to function with a x86-based machine if they couldn't get the two to work under the hood.

 

The thing about products like Bleem! and Virtual Game Station is that they were commercial emulation products, made for Windows 9x and Mac OS 9 respectively, that required PlayStation CDs in order to function. They weren't their own consoles.

Edited September 26, 2018 by DurradonXylles

[derFunkenstein]

Seedi is at least a "product" in that the software is available. That's pretty amusing, really.

 

And holy crap Nintendo Life was in all-out shill mode during that interview. Didn't even bat an eye at the total bullshit answers.

 

edit: wrong source listed.

Edited September 26, 2018 by derFunkenstein

[godslabrat]

Seedi is at least a "product" in that the software is available. That's pretty amusing, really.

 

And holy crap Nintendo Age was in all-out shill mode during that interview. Didn't even bat an eye at the total bullshit answers.

I don't know about you, but I'll now file NintendoLife right alongside Gamester81 on the credibility scale.

[derFunkenstein]

I don't know about you, but I'll now file NintendoLife right alongside Gamester81 on the credibility scale.

 

I'd already done that when NL's site became an "official" information distribution channel while the Polymega site was down. No credibility.

 

edit: I'd been saying Nintendo Age but it's Nintendo Life. My apologies to NA.

Edited September 26, 2018 by derFunkenstein

[godslabrat]

 

I'd already done that when NA's site became an "official" information distribution channel while the Polymega site was down. No credibility.

All the while, PolyMega themselves couldn't be arsed to answer a simple question. Outsourcing your PR while giving yourself plausible deniability if the message isn't received correctly.

[atm94404]

I hadn't heard about Retroblox/Polymega until this month. And to be honest, when I did hear about it I literally thought it was a joke or a test. After the whole RVGS/Coleco Chameleon fiasco, the retro community sort of congratulated itself for not being duped and chastised sites Kotaku and Engadget (and some Youtubers who won't be named) for not doing due diligence. We hoped everyone learned a valuable lesson. Now along comes Polymega, and it reads like a "let's give everyone a follow-up test". Point by point, it has all the warning signs that the Coleco Chameleon gave off that many ignored.

 

1. CG renders promising the end-all-be-all for retro gaming but nothing real.

2. Dangling the promise of magical FPGA for two years and then at the last minute removing it. Also then promising to add it back in the future if they reach a lofty funding goal

3. Promises of pending deals with "major publishers" but no details. Hey, at least Kennedy named them. They were complete lies, but at least they were easy to expose.

4. Showing a working "prototype" under a plastic dome at a tradeshow that in no way reflects the final promised hardware. If the E3 version had an FPGA, then it's irrelevant because it's not the final hardware. If it didn't have an FGPA then 1) it was just an off-the-shelf SFF PC in a homemade shell and 2) They've known for many months that the FPGA was gone but kept that a secret (still promoting the promise and necessity of "Hybrid Emulation"). Either way, the "It's real! I saw it at E3!" is a bogus argument.

5. When the use of fake footage is exposed, it is blamed on some nameless media person using "old" footage. Why would a company making a console emulator EVER have footage from a free arcade emulator?

6. When people ask for REAL footage of the emulator, a new video that doesn't show anything relevant (direct capture that could be from any source) is presented as "proof". The company then engages with willing Social Media Influencers to play the indignant victim card. They reply with the equivalent of "We gave you proof and you still want more? Nothing will ever satisfy our critics so we won't offer any more videos. Just trust us or you're a bunch of haters!"

7. Promising that FPGA is the secret sauce and THE reason consumers should buy THIS emulation box, and then when the FPGA proves to be unworkable, calling people who remind them of their previous claims haters and "snobs".

8. Tech promises made by a non-technical "idea guy" while engineers on the project keep leaving and being replaced as those promises prove impossible to deliver.

9. "Last minute 'we don't need crowdfunding because we have a big-time secret investor AND orders from 'major retailers'. But instead of crowdfunding, give us your money NOW and you'll get an order at a minimum six months in the future (past the deadline for a chargeback on most credit cards)."

10. Insane funding levels for trivial features. ($250, 000 for a slightly different color scheme in the UI? $250,000 for dvd and cd playback?)

11. The promised ship date is April 1st.

 

If I were designing a test to see if tech sites and Youtubers had actually learned anything the Chameleon scam, I couldn't have intentionally created more red flags than the Polymega has demonstrated.

Edited September 26, 2018 by atm94404

[PikoInteractive]

 

Piko Interactive?

 

 

Does sound like me, but I don't have a proto unit.

Edited September 26, 2018 by PikoInteractive

[godslabrat]

I hadn't heard about Retroblox/Polymega until this month. And to be honest, when I did hear about it I literally thought it was a joke or a test. After the whole RVGS/Coleco Chameleon fiasco, the retro community sort of congratulated itself for not being duped and chastised sites Kotaku and Engadget (and some Youtubers who won't be named) for not doing due diligence. We hoped everyone learned a valuable lesson. Now along comes Polymega, and it reads like a "let's give everyone a follow-up test". Point by point, it has all the warning signs that the Coleco Chameleon gave off that many ignored.

 

1. CG renders promising the end-all-be-all for retro gaming but nothing real.

2. Dangling the promise of magical FPGA for two years and then at the last minute removing it. Also then promising to add it back in the future if they reach a lofty funding goal

3. Promises of pending deals with "major publishers" but no details. Hey, at least Kennedy named them. They were complete lies, but at least they were easy to expose.

4. Showing a working "prototype" under a plastic dome at a tradeshow that in no way reflects the final promised hardware. If the E3 version had an FPGA, then it's irrelevant because it's not the final hardware. If it didn't have an FGPA then 1) it was just an off-the-shelf SFF PC in a homemade shell and 2) They've known for many months that the FPGA was gone but kept that a secret (still promoting the promise and necessity of "Hybrid Emulation"). Either way, the "It's real! I saw it at E3!" is a bogus argument.

5. When the use of fake footage is exposed, it is blamed on some nameless media person using "old" footage. Why would a company making a console emulator EVER have footage from a free arcade emulator?

6. When people ask for REAL footage of the emulator, a new video that doesn't show anything relevant (direct capture that could be from any source) is presented as "proof". The company then engages with willing Social Media Influencers to play the indignant victim card. They reply with the equivalent of "We gave you proof and you still want more? Nothing will ever satisfy our critics so we won't offer any more videos. Just trust us or you're a bunch of haters!"

7. Promising that FPGA is the secret sauce and THE reason consumers should buy THIS emulation box, and then when the FPGA proves to be unworkable, calling people who remind them of their previous claims haters and "snobs".

8. Tech promises made by a non-technical "idea guy" while engineers on the project keep leaving and being replaced as those promises prove impossible to deliver.

9. "Last minute 'we don't need crowdfunding because we have a big-time secret investor AND orders from 'major retailers'. But instead of crowdfunding, give us your money NOW and you'll get an order at a minimum six months in the future (past the deadline for a chargeback on most credit cards)."

10. Insane funding levels for trivial features. ($250, 000 for a slightly different color scheme in the UI? $250,000 for dvd and cd playback?)

11. The promised ship date is April 1st.

 

If I were designing a test to see if tech sites and Youtubers had actually learned anything the Chameleon scam, I couldn't have intentionally created more red flags than the Polymega has demonstrated.

 

 

You left a bunch of stuff out, but this is a heck of a synopsis.

[Keatah]

The "Hybrid emulation" nonsense has been dropped by Playmaji because, as it turns out, you cannot lump a FPGA and CPU onto the same board and expect them to work properly together since the former uses gate arrays and the latter almost always using machine language at lowest levels of operation. You'd need to build a board from the ground up that allows for both to operate independently and still allow for communication where necessary, something that would require at least double the angel investment of $500k they purported to have, and a console about as complex in board design as the Atari Jaguar. This legitimately makes me wonder how they expect FPGA based modules to function with a x86-based machine if they couldn't get the two to work under the hood.

 

I believe a CPU and and FPGA can totally co-exist. Even on the same chip carrier package, or board, or die. Intel has been doing it for years since 2011 with the netbook processors, you got the x86 in real hardware and the rest of the system done up in FPGA. And many modern FPGAs have ARM cores built into them.

 

The problem for these cheap consoles, as it turns out, is having knowledgeable-enough staff working with the right toolset. You simply can't use existing APIs you need to hit the metal in some spots with good old Assembly.

 

And that's because existing APIs and languages, libraries and modules, don't support such configurations. Let alone do it in a classic gaming environment.. You need some level of customization.

 

Polymega wasn't up to the task.

[atm94404]

 

 

You left a bunch of stuff out, but this is a heck of a synopsis.

I started typing the list when I got into work this morning and kept adding to it between meetings. Finally I had to say "that's enough or I won't get any work done today". Believe me, I could have done a lot more with just a quick review of all Youtube videos where people would say "Hey, I know we got burned on the Chameleon but this is TOTALLY different." It's like some of these people are the embodiment of that myth we tell kids when they ask "Don't the goldfish get bored swimming around that tiny bowl?" "No, sweetie. Goldfish have such a short memory that by the time they swim around the bowl, they've forgotten they've been there before. So each time it's a whole new experience. They'll never get bored!"

[Flojomojo]

That list was pretty epic. I get a "school project" or "performance art" vibe from this as well -- or at least I did until they starting collecting real money. Now they've graduated into "boondoggle" territory.

[DurradonXylles]

I believe a CPU and and FPGA can totally co-exist. Even on the same chip carrier package, or board, or die. Intel has been doing it for years since 2011 with the netbook processors, you got the x86 in real hardware and the rest of the system done up in FPGA. And many modern FPGAs have ARM cores built into them.

 

The problem for these cheap consoles, as it turns out, is having knowledgeable-enough staff working with the right toolset. You simply can't use existing APIs you need to hit the metal in some spots with good old Assembly.

 

And that's because existing APIs and languages, libraries and modules, don't support such configurations. Let alone do it in a classic gaming environment.. You need some level of customization.

 

Polymega wasn't up to the task.

I don't think it's impossible, but as you said everything software-wise would have to be built from the ground up. I still stick with my points about R&D costs and having a board that would have complexity akin to a Jaguar's main board. Polymega was starting to drift toward having all software built in-house, but due to Bryan Bernal being his oh-so-lovely self, Eric Christensen ended up leaving on the same bad terms as Rob Wyatt before him. Polymega certainly isn't up to the task of making it possible.

[mr_me]

FPGA is just an integrated circuit chip technology. It can be interchangeable with ASIC in application. It's just an inexpensive way to have a custom IC for smaller projects.

[Keatah]

Polysmegma didn't (doesn't) know how build that custom circuit.

[cacophony]

For you non-believers and skeptics, Polymega has provided "proof" of the low input lag via these 240p test suite numbers they achieved:

 

"Just fired up the 240p test suite (TGCD version) and got 10/10, 7/10, 8/10 (Latency=0 frames) using a wired PCE Avenue Pad 6 plugged into the EM04 module. 14/10, 18/10, 18/10 (Latency=1 frame) using the pack in Wireless Controller over USB. Monitor is a BENQ RL2460."

https://twitter.com/polymegaHQ/status/1044744412083830784

 

Edited September 27, 2018 by cacophony

[Keatah]

They said lag is low enough that most game types are playable. What game types are unplayable?

[cacophony]

Seeing that one of the main advertised features is low input lag:

 

"The wired retro controllers included with each Element Module set eliminate nearly all perceivable input lag, important for timing-critical games where even the smallest bit of latency can put you at a disadvantage."

 

You'd think that have a proper way to test it. Most modern phones have high speed (240fps) video recording, and how hard is it to hook a controller button up to an LED light?

[godslabrat]

Here come the weasel words... "Most games" are playable. The same could be said for any of the imperfect clone solutions out there. That's not breaking any new ground. They keep harping on "low latency" like it's going to be their big win, but its only certain games, with a certain controller, on certain modules...

 

The more caveats they make, the more I hope the general public sees through this sham.

[mr_me]

They are claiming lag is non-existent using original/compatible controllers. The "very playable for most game types" comment is for usb and wireless controllers.

Edited September 27, 2018 by mr_me