+CyranoJ Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 How do you know the difference in signed and unsigned? The sounds were all unsigned but I couldn't tell the difference. Should I resave all the sounds as signed? I knew about the speed difference but only noticed it in the main game. I was thinking it was about 25% slower on real HW. Im about to go play test it some more myself on console..... brb One sounds correct. If it doesn't sound the same as in your editor when it's in the game, then it should be obvious that it isn't right. It would never be 25% slower. If you miss a vblank, you are 50% slower. On real H/W the sprites jerk across the screen, and the mouth sluggishly jumps around - in PAL it's even worse. But its the broken collision detection that breaks the game totally. I don't know how your testers could have missed these things. I encountered them all within a few minutes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masematte Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I agree 100% with CyranoJ ,Sauron and Sansea_Mariner ... i like the Game , i like the Concept, but please take your Time to finished it. Cause i like the idea to,Show this Game in November in Germany to the Ejagfest. Cause 1977-2017 its 40 Years 2600 , 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper_Eye Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Software development is my job and it has been for a long time. I am software lead on numerous efforts at my company and I have overseen product development from initial concept (meaning ideas that I conceived and pitched) to delivery. With that context please take this as an experienced developer offering advice not criticism. Put the brakes on. Slow down. You pushed this out way way too fast. Your game is not finished. It has bugs and it has gameplay issues that keep it from reaching its full potential. When you do think it is finished you still need to move forward slowly. You need experienced testers to spend a significant amount of time playing all modes, getting good at all modes so they can advance far in the game, and you need to give them a good way to document everything they see to provide back to you. Then you need to take the time to address the things they present. Some of the time those things won't be bugs. Sometimes they will be things like, "This mode just isn't fun." That's exactly the kind of feedback you need. Here at AA you have access to incredibly experienced developers, Jaguar homebrew developers, and experienced playtesters. You have access to the gentleman that developed the game engine you are utilizing. Why wouldn't you ask them to try your game and provide feedback? Not only can CJ provide feedback and bug reports, he can tell from the way the game plays and sounds what you did wrong and he can tell you how to fix it. Take advantage of that! This process should not be out on the public forum as it creates too much noise. It should be through one-on-one communication or limited group discussion. I usually buy any Jaguar release if I am comfortable with spending the cash on it when it is made available. When I saw that your game was available to order I did not feel inclined to purchase it. When you release a finished game I'll be in line to buy a copy. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 One sounds correct. If it doesn't sound the same as in your editor when it's in the game, then it should be obvious that it isn't right. It would never be 25% slower. If you miss a vblank, you are 50% slower. On real H/W the sprites jerk across the screen, and the mouth sluggishly jumps around - in PAL it's even worse. But its the broken collision detection that breaks the game totally. I don't know how your testers could have missed these things. I encountered them all within a few minutes. CJ, I don't mean to be a pain in the ass, but do you mind using your capture card today and recording a video of you playtesting the game? I am asking this favor for a few reasons, here is why: 1 The sluggish mouth movement was a HUGE issue that I noticed in the beginning, but after altering the main game loops code I thought this issue was FIXED. (I don't want that!) It appears to be fine to me on my Jag. 2 Nick Persijn tested the game on his console and recorded video after the fix. His console and tv is PAL so I'm not sure if the speed issues are related to region or not. (Arne, can you confirm?) 3 I'm not sure what you mean by collision issues, if you are referring to the hit boxes in PLUS mode being smaller this was intentional so the player can ease around the edges of the veggies as if they were in a tight maze, but you said purple pickle so you MUST be talking about something else. If you could show a video that would be awesome, if not I understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Sure, but not tonight, it's 00:30AM. I'd be happy to help you work through these problems if it makes the final game better. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted June 9, 2017 Author Share Posted June 9, 2017 (edited) Arne has brought some bugs to my attention. and I have fixed the following bugs: *Player 2 was still controllable and on screen after returning to the main menu (FIXED) *Crosshairs coming up on 2600 mode game over screen (FIXED) *2600 mode "BURP!" text disappearing completely after first game over never to return (FIXED) *burger way too big or small in plus mode after returning from VR mode to the main menu (FIXED) *other food items scale size messed up after playing VR mode then returning to the main menu (FIXED) ADDED NEW FEATURE in PLUS mode player 2 can now press 6 to make the burgers giant or 9 to make them micro sized sliders! Added this Easter egg as the result of the above glitch^ *Score HUD appearing on top of the main menu sometimes when returning to main menu (NOT YET FIXED) I will be converting all of the samples to signed and hopefully will have a better idea of the speed issues after CJ uploads his video. I was wrong Nick's Jaguar is NTSC, so I actually haven't seen this super lag yet. Anyone who ordered a CD already (TrekMD this means you!) will get a free revised copy and I will pay the shipping! Thank God the carts aren't ready yet! Edited June 9, 2017 by Jeffrey_Bones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sauron Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 Just one small suggestion that I have as well...you might want to look into trying to fix up some of the glitches that the game experiences in the emulators (namely VJ). While that can be a total pain in the ass to do at times, I think it's worth it. A lot of people who might consider buying a physical copy may not have a Skunkboard and will give the game a spin in an emu first, and it's worth it to make a good first impression with that. I'd be happy to do some additional VJ testing for you if necessary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+madman Posted June 9, 2017 Share Posted June 9, 2017 I'd also respectfully request that you take down your EBay sales, but obviously we can't make you do that. Just kinda rubs me the wrong way when there are known bugs and you're still asking $40. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 OK, here we go... (Youtube and ADSL are a combo built to suck!) https://youtu.be/P2x1jZIO2Sc There are audible clicks in the music. https://youtu.be/elwELxxG_oE Collision detection is broken at random points in the game. This is also evident in all the videos you've posted of Frogz64, so I'd say you need to re-read the manuals and re-examine the examples as far as checking collisions go. https://youtu.be/flWOj54i71k Samples sound wrong/overdriven/distorted, controls are sluggish. At one point it slowed to about 5fps, but I didn't get a capture of that. Something seriously wrong here. https://youtu.be/6EoEl58RbB8 Multiple objects glitching at the left edge of the screen. This one has gone back to the first few videos you've posted. https://youtu.be/DjTWCBqb5vY The objects don't obey the rules of edge of the tunnel. https://youtu.be/Wlh8vsdl-xw Z-Ordering bug. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Some general comments. Please don't take offence to them. You have all the elements... but this game is not fun. The original game is smooth and fluid, this one feels jerky and forced. I'm not sure what would be causing this. RAPTOR is able to handle well over 100 objects on screen at once at 60fps. Maybe make it faster, more gaps between objects so you aren't 'throwing stuff at the screen constantly' and add an acceleration/deceleration curve to the player speeds. 'Fun' is hard to quantify. You'll know when you've found it, but it's not there yet. If the samples are what you intended, then fine. But, IMHO, they sound terrible. Again, this could be because (to me) they sound like they're in the wrong format. You have previously said you don't want RB+ to process your samples. I'd suggest letting it do so. If you don't want to change them, I'd suggest a 'mute SFX/mute music' mode. Not being able to exit game modes is a PITA. Pressing the power button is not a good way out. VR mode is a playable mess. It is too slow to be enjoyable, and it is very hard to see what you are picking up. The Z-Order bug exasperates this as you can pick up something BEHIND the object about to hit you. I think that's probably enough for now. I believe you can fix all these and make it a great game. But don't put the box before the gameplay, and don't surround yourself with sycophants and 'yes men' - find people who will tell you, in no uncertain terms 'hey, this doesn't play well! remove it, or fix it!' - or, possibly, go the Rebooteroids route, and have a few months of public inspection and fine tuning. God knows things were tried, failed, changed, added, failed, removed, retried, fixed up, and eventually accepted there. It's a process that works. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip Posted June 10, 2017 Share Posted June 10, 2017 Not wanting to add 'noise' to the comments that have already been made but instead of just 'a bit more playtesting' why not give yourself, for example, a four week cooling off period where you get more than a couple of people to play test on real hardware, compile a specific and targeted list of bugs / issues, and tackle them one by one. In addition to the aforementioned things, it just doesn't seem finished or balanced in the gameplay/graphics/addictiveness stakes to be honest. Example (and this is a simple one): the mode select screen looks very cluttered (text wise). Why not take 30 minutes to make it look 'nicer' (whatever that means). Example two: collision detection is not reliable. Example three: difficulty/ level progression doesn't feel complete somehow (this is subjective, but it feels like an 'alpha' version of a game with things just working but no smooth direction or thought behind gradual increase in difficulty). Don't take this as a bash, it's a great achievement to have all these modes up and running for a start. It looks like it's gone far beyond a learning project. Why let it loose now though when it's not quite there yet? My advice, for whatever it's worth, is don't release it in its current form. With bugs and general gameplay issues, people might start to demand refunds or updated versions...and with the cost of cart production this could be really bad for you. You don't want your first release to go down this way. Take some time, step back from it, let others who have no vested interest test it and give you specific feedback, that way you can fix bugs, and balance gameplay. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted June 10, 2017 Author Share Posted June 10, 2017 fastfood64_REV1.rom Revision 1 with many bug fixes..... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skip Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Question - why is it limited to a 1MB ROM (I hadn't noticed that before)? Wouldn't a 2MB ROM allow for more music, higher colour depth (e.g. for the title screen), more graphical variation, higher quality / more sounds etc etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 Its actually 1.73 MB there is a couple of different ways to compile the ROM. Im not sure how I got it to 1 MB. I Didn't pack the graphics either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 Its actually 1.73 MB there is a couple of different ways to compile the ROM. Im not sure how I got it to 1 MB. I Didn't pack the graphics either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I'll try this again in a couple of weeks to see how it looks then. I'm not going to be flashing a new ROM every time one is posted, I'd rather see some significant improvement instead of micro-jumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 Its actually 1.73 MB there is a couple of different ways to compile the ROM. Im not sure how I got it to 1 MB. I Didn't pack the graphics either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 Why in the heck did it triple post my comment???? What is that about? And no CJ its not worth testing yet for you, I haven't even started on the bugs you listed this one only fixes the ones Arne brought to my attention and is a bit faster and more smooth movement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 If it's <2mb, post a .ABS if possible, doesn't require flashing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggn Posted June 11, 2017 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Its actually 1.73 MB there is a couple of different ways to compile the ROM. Im not sure how I got it to 1 MB. I Didn't pack the graphics either http://atariage.com/forums/topic/263352-rb-tutorial-5-buildbat-just-a-build-script/ Give that a read and all will become clear. Especially "build project", "build project rom", "build project rom unpacked". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 If it's <2mb, post a .ABS if possible, doesn't require flashing. fastfood64_REV1.abs http://atariage.com/forums/topic/263352-rb-tutorial-5-buildbat-just-a-build-script/ Give that a read and all will become clear. Especially "build project", "build project rom", "build project rom unpacked". I already read that. That's how I know how to compile roms in different ways in the first place. I still don't get how 0.74 MB went away without me packing the graphics or doing anything special. It almost seems like the 1MB version is corrupt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CyranoJ Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 I still don't get how 0.74 MB went away without me packing the graphics or doing anything special. It almost seems like the 1MB version is corrupt. Well, that inspired confidence It looks like, from your facebook posts, that you are taking orders for this still. I'd suggest cancelling and putting that on hold until it's fixed and finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggn Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) fastfood64_REV1.abs I already read that. That's how I know how to compile roms in different ways in the first place. I still don't get how 0.74 MB went away without me packing the graphics or doing anything special. It almost seems like the 1MB version is corrupt. Read it again then . Edited June 12, 2017 by ggn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 (edited) fastfood64_REV3.rom Reset to menu from PLUS mode fixed! Some VR and 2600 mode bugs fixed much more stable return to menu functions Edited June 12, 2017 by Jeffrey_Bones 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAVE 1 GAMES Posted June 12, 2017 Author Share Posted June 12, 2017 Controls got real laggy in that last revision so I adjusted them to match VJ better fastfood64_REV4.rom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welshworrier Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 I take it you are still going ahead with selling cartridges with the buggy version on it then. http://www.ebay.com/itm/222545167873 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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