New Genesis Flashback

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Hehe, I agree it's not a deal breaker Although honestly it feels weird. B and C buttons are on the left side of the controller and you use them to control the left menu, while Dpad is on the left side of the controller and you use it for navigating through the games, which are on the right side of screen.

 

With little effort, they could change it to a more natural and standard flow: start on the category menu (at the left) using d-pad for going up and down on the categories, press A to enter a category, and then d-pad would be used to navigate through games, A to show a game's options, and B to go back to the categories menu. While this might be slower than current UI navigation, it would feel more natural.

 

Molul, I suggested this same setup a few pages back and was shot down by Bill because of extra button presses to get where you need to go. Which, is really silly because it takes less than a second to press a button and while I'm all for optimizing an interface, there is a compromise that is required for optimizing and flow, as well as being intuitive to use. Apparently the streamlining of the interface won out over making it easier to use. It isn't a deal breaker no. But it does seem very goofy and perhaps might come off as half-baked in how it was implemented. It is almost like something was forgotten in order to make it work, found about last minute, and this was the quick solution to have it work. That is how it comes off to me in the way it is implemented.

[Bill Loguidice]

 

Molul, I suggested this same setup a few pages back and was shot down by Bill because of extra button presses to get where you need to go. Which, is really silly because it takes less than a second to press a button and while I'm all for optimizing an interface, there is a compromise that is required for optimizing and flow, as well as being intuitive to use. Apparently the streamlining of the interface won out over making it easier to use. It isn't a deal breaker no. But it does seem very goofy and perhaps might come off as half-baked in how it was implemented. It is almost like something was forgotten in order to make it work, found about last minute, and this was the quick solution to have it work. That is how it comes off to me in the way it is implemented.

 

I just disagree that it's necessarily a better system. "Shot down" seems strong. I really don't care at this point other than for the purposes of academic discussion because the interface is what it is and is not going to change for this year's products obviously.

 

I absolutely understand some people dislike the present menu navigation (and a bunch of other things). I do my best to take note of all that and pass it on. When the team comes up with the interface for the 2018 product, I'll definitely make a point of recommending they streamline things as much as possible.

[molul]

Wow... While I agree with Crossbow (in the sense that it looks like a quick fix for something that couldn't be done right), I'd sincerely ask him to keep a gentle tone, as I think we're all here on the same boat: we all want this to be the perfect Mega Drive plug 'n' play system we've all been waiting for And Bill is our greatest ally on this, so I think we need to suggest stuff in the most calm manner. He could perfectly stop listening, but here he is and we should value it.

 

If it helps you when the moment arrives, Bill, I could suggest the team to try to find a similar navigation system in another well-stablished and well-considered product (i.e.: Android/Apple TVs, Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo consoles menus, etc). I can see how the current system can be faster once you get used to it, but whatever innovation I ever figure out, I always compare it to current standards, as it's what people is really used to and what they expect in most systems.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Wow... While I agree with Crossbow (in the sense that it looks like a quick fix for something that couldn't be done right), I'd sincerely ask him to keep a gentle tone, as I think we're all here on the same boat: we all want this to be the perfect Mega Drive plug 'n' play system we've all been waiting for And Bill is our greatest ally on this, so I think we need to suggest stuff in the most calm manner. He could perfectly stop listening, but here he is and we should value it.

 

If it helps you when the moment arrives, Bill, I could suggest the team to try to find a similar navigation system in another well-stablished and well-considered product (i.e.: Android/Apple TVs, Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo consoles menus, etc). I can see how the current system can be faster once you get used to it, but whatever innovation I ever figure out, I always compare it to current standards, as it's what people is really used to and what they expect in most systems.

 

I was being quite gentle with the suggestion previously. But Bill's answer was that he stated he didn't see how it was any better than what they were already using and required more steps..ie button presses... to get where you needed to go in the menu. I honestly don't mean to come off as harsh, but after the other attempts that @games has made at this and it just bugs me that something as simple as the menu system interface is setup quirky like this.

[molul]

I know the menu thing it's a bit "shocking", but still, there are reasons to be positive: this year's attempt is much better than any other model, and they're willing to keep improving. As much as I'd like to have a Mega Drive Mini next to my SNES Mini for Christmas, I'm hopeful I could have it next year. Let's see if AtGames can attend all issues

[Hydro Thunder]

So I spent more time with my Genesis Flashback, and my experience is still mixed.

Con:

Of the two wireless controllers, one doesn't connect at all as previously mentioned. The worse news is that the one that does connect has really, really poor connection. It'll work fine for awhile, but even with the console sitting directly in front of me on the coffee table, if I let the controller move downwards such that part of my knee is between it and the console, it stops being read. It's worse than that actually; I was playing Rock & Roll Racing for about 10 minutes, and at one point without my hitting the menu button, the menu screen popped up, disappeared, and I was taken back to the main menu. VERY frustrating. Prior to that, the "X" button was firing of its own accord (causing my car to jump randomly) without my input, my fingers were nowhere near it. So, to sum up, I have major negatives about the build quality and what I am seeing of the included wireless controllers at this point. I may well get off my butt and see if I can get it exchanged at Best Buy and if another unit will have better controllers, my experience may change. But for now I fully agree with the reviews that I saw that said the wireless controllers are garbage. I was hoping I'd be more on the side of those who found them to be fine, but my experience has been that they're only fine for a couple of minutes tops. And that isn't how I play Genesis.

 

Pro:

Using my wired Six-Button controller...everything is pretty wonderful. Played Michael Jackson's Moonwalker, Dragon's Fury, Rock n Roll Racing, Streets of Rage 3, Castlevania: Bloodlines, Street Fighter II: Special Champion Edition, and Skeleton Krew. All played great and looked just spectacular on my reasonably good TV, and sounded great (sound running through a bluetooth adapter to a Bose Soundlink Mini). Had a LOT of fun getting back into some of those games (daaaaamn old games are hard!). So I do really enjoy that, and am glad the games I most want are fully playable and looking so good.

[molul]

It might be a safer bet to include wired controllers next time. I'd prefer bluetooth, but if it can't be possible, hyperkin's mega drive controllers are great.

[Bill Loguidice]

If you have those kinds of problems with the wireless controllers, that's not normal, obviously. Do an exchange.

 

And no, we're not going to include wired controllers with the premium console.

[molul]

And no, we're not going to include wired controllers with the premium console.

Got it! I was more thinking of manufacturing costs, but wireless controls are in fact a good feature against other similar systems.

[Krathoon]

The wireless controllers worked fine with my Flashback.

 

There is one important thing of note though. Make sure the switch on one is set to first player and the other set to second player.

[BitMerge6502]

Here is the motherboard of the Atari Flashback 8 Gold Activision Edition HD (please excuse the less than perfect photography). I hope it helps someone.

There are some test pads on the back of the PCB that go to the d-sub 9 controller ports, and some pads for the topside console buttons. Not much else on the back, and no antenna wire from the wireless module (Blue PCB on left). Looks like it is the same hardware as the Genesis HD Flashback with the exception of a different SRAM chip (2GB SpekTek PE937-15E), and 4GB flash instead of the 2GB on the Genesis. There is a reset button just like the Genesis, but no USB port. Although, there is a 6 pin set of unpopulated PCB header vias that have a silkscreen around them (a clue Sherlock), and whose close proximity to the reset button would be a good hint that they are/or serve, a similar function as the USB port on the Genesis PCB. I noticed that if you rotate this photo 90° counter-clockwise, the Atari PCB closely matches the same component layout of the Genesis hardware. To compensate for my poor photography, the labels are (top to bottom): +5V, DM, PM, IO, VSS, REC. They are a little hard to read, and I am not 100% sure that the "M's" and "R" are in fact letters, and not symbols of some kind. If it is USB and not some sort of other serial protocol (SPI, i2C, etc), I'm going to guess that "PM, & DM" equate to the "DM, & DP" pins on a USB port, (although they would be out of order for a standard USB socket). I guess I'm going to be a daredevil and test them out. I will post my findings as I (hopefully) progress.

 

PE937-15E - SpecTek

Edited December 11, 2017 by BitMerge6502

[BitMerge6502]

I wired up a USB cable and was able to get my computer to recognize the Flashback. I just soldered a male header jumper to the Atari PCB and connected a USB cord with female headers. When plugging your Flashback via USB, you do not need the AC adapter. It will operate off of the USB power, just plug in the USB only, and the HDMI if you want to verify that the Flashback is working. Be careful if you decide to poke around with your Flashback. I am just posting my findings for documentation and educational purposes. I am not responsible if you brick your console or inadvertently start a forest fire. Mod at your own risk. Also note, different Flashback models may vary.

Going by the abbreviations on the Flashback silkscreen, the pinout for making your own USB cable is as follows:

USB cord to PC | ATARI PCB silkscreen
1) +5VDC (Red) | +5VDC
2) DATA- (White) | DM
3) DATA+ (Green) | PM
4) N.C. | IO
5) Ground (Black) | VSS
6) N.C. | REC

 

[molul]

 

I wired up a USB cable and was able to get my computer to recognize the Flashback. I just soldered a male header jumper to the Atari PCB and connected a USB cord with female headers. When plugging your Flashback via USB, you do not need the AC adapter. It will operate off of the USB power, just plug in the USB only, and the HDMI if you want to verify that the Flashback is working. Be careful if you decide to poke around with your Flashback. I am just posting my findings for documentation and educational purposes. I am not responsible if you brick your console or inadvertently start a forest fire. Mod at your own risk. Also note, different Flashback models may vary.

Going by the abbreviations on the Flashback silkscreen, the pinout for making your own USB cable is as follows:

USB cord to PC | ATARI PCB silkscreen

1) +5VDC (Red) | +5VDC

2) DATA- (White) | DM

3) DATA+ (Green) | PM

4) N.C. | IO

5) Ground (Black) | VSS

6) N.C. | REC

 

 

 

This is really interesting, although, no offense, it might be better on its own topic, don't you think? This thread is about Genesis Flashback and it would be a shame that this info about the Atari Flashback got lost du to being in another topic.

[BitMerge6502]

 

This is really interesting, although, no offense, it might be better on its own topic, don't you think? This thread is about Genesis Flashback and it would be a shame that this info about the Atari Flashback got lost du to being in another topic.

I thought about that. I think a "2017 Flashback HD modding" topic would suffice for for both (any objections or proposals)? I posted here as a follow up to jkgamer's post about the Genesis HD hardware. He mentioned the Atari version being similar and speculation about function of the jumpers inside. I wanted to verify for him (and anyone else that may be following his post) because I have both consoles. If I start a new Topic, I would cut & paste (or link) jkgamer's original instructions along with my recent posts so they can be searchable there also.

[Hydro Thunder]

Finally got mine exchanged, the new unit's controllers are much improved (and both work!). One thing I didn't realize may have been causing interference with the prior controller that did work (one of the two didn't work at all, any way any how, thus the exchange) was my bluetooth speaker setup; I had a Bose Soundlink Mini playing sound via bluetooth on my coffee table. I guess if you "cross the lines" that's an issue between bluetooth and 2.4ghz controllers, which I hadn't even considered. But now both controllers work well I'm happy to report, and though I wouldn't say I prefer them to the original six button Sega controllers, they're definitely passable. And wireless is very handy.

[molul]

Glad to hear that Better replicas (more similar to the Mega Drive model 2 controllers, I mean) for next model would rock. Hyperkin's wired Mega Drive controller feel pretty much like the real thing. Not sure if AtGames could use that model or even ask Hyperkin to manufacture next year model controllers.

 

Btw, current controller model is Mega Drive model 3's model apparently. They're a bit smaller than model 2's.

[Bill Loguidice]

Glad to hear that Better replicas (more similar to the Mega Drive model 2 controllers, I mean) for next model would rock. Hyperkin's wired Mega Drive controller feel pretty much like the real thing. Not sure if AtGames could use that model or even ask Hyperkin to manufacture next year model controllers.

 

Btw, current controller model is Mega Drive model 3's model apparently. They're a bit smaller than model 2's.

 

We're improving the console shell and changing up the controller design for next year. They'll still be wireless. It's not an option for AtGames and Hyperkin to work together as far as I know.

[molul]

Every new bit of info makes me want to skip a year and get my hands on this next model

 

Hope this new design is a clone of the model 2 controller rather than a brand new design ^^

 

Thanks for these teasers, Bill.

[Krathoon]

Be sure to test out a Castlevania: Bloodlines cart on the next model. Reflections don't work on the current one.

[SignGuy81]

 

We're improving the console shell

 

What is wrong with it?

[Bill Loguidice]

 

What is wrong with it?

 

Nothing. We're just making it a bit more authentic.

[molul]

Nothing. We're just making it a bit more authentic.

Damn. Is it 2018 already?

[derFunkenstein]

Every new bit of info makes me want to skip a year and get my hands on this next model

 

Hope this new design is a clone of the model 2 controller rather than a brand new design ^^

 

Thanks for these teasers, Bill.

I'm already resigned to do that. If there's an SD card slot and the last of the emulation issues get sorted, I'm sold.

[Atariboy]

Will emulation be improved?

 

I hope it's not like their last generation products where the same issues persist for years. The broken radar for example in Battlezone still didn't work on last year's Atari Flashback Portable, showing the same issue that had been there since AtGames started with the Flashback 3 (Which I'm sure holds true for the 2017 revision as well).

 

Now that it's all software with their HD products, I hope they take advantage of the relative economy that method offers for modifications from year to year and don't just call it close enough and close the door on emulation improvements for 2018 and beyond.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Atariboy

[molul]

I'm already resigned to do that. If there's an SD card slot and the last of the emulation issues get sorted, I'm sold.

 

I hear you, although with the usb port they're adding, maybe we won't need an SD card slot.

 

 

Will emulation be improved?

 

I really hope so. This is actually the most important area to be improved.

 

It would be awesome if the console firmware was updateable with better iterations of the emulator. Maybe the usb port could allow that.