Is the 8 bit uninspiring?

[emkay]

That manipulation of people can be dangerous, and imho a forum member unworthy. I am very aware that this is my point of view, and yes he did edit his post, and yes I'm not 'authorized' to say something about moderation or whatever, but seriously... when I read that post #130 I was like: wtf.... why did I ever fall in his psychological disturbed trap.

 

See, who has such problems?

I was just editing the post , to make the argumentations more clear, particular to people who tend to get things wrong.

 

He also didn't recognize the "pointless pissing" by 8bitjunkie....

If such people simply weren't taking part of a discussion...

 

 

(oops , again some edit )....

Edited September 18, 2017 by emkay

[8Bitjunkie]

 

As for Emkay, would I ban him, never,

 

You don't have to...

 

H​e is on my ignore list now.

 

for reasons.

[Mr SQL]

imo the A8 was the incredible computer of the 70's, far ahead of it's time with even better graphics than the C64

 

I'm working on a cross compiler to allow Flashback BASIC games to run on the A8 with no changes to the code, similar to the cross compiler that is now working between the SuperCharger and the CBS RAM memory access protocol in the Atari Flashback Portable; this one will similarly abstract CTIA and TIA.

 

It may end up being even more compatible - here is a cross compiled game SuperCharger SpaceInvaders where the latest version no longer runs on the SuperCharger, not because the code isn't compatible but simply because there is an extra K (5K vs 4K free) available to Flashback BASIC:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/269548-supercharger-spaceinvaders/?p=3850161

 

I'm expecting all the games to cross compile fine on an 8K Atari 400 when I finish the A8 compiler, but it would be far more difficult to write a cross compiler for the C64 because it's powerful graphics architecture isn't as flexibly close to the 2600.

 

[Gunstar]

Of course opinions can be fact-based; emkay is providing a poor example for one.

We see fact-based opinions being compared on this forum all the time, especially in the C64 vs A8 type of threads.

--------------------------

For instance, someone may hold the following opinion:

The Atari XL/XE has a better graphics system than the C64

because it has a larger palette and more graphics modes.

Facts:

C64 has a palette of 16 colors

A8 has a palette of 128/256 colors

C64 has 5 graphics modes

A8 has 16 graphics modes

--------------------------

Another example would be the following:

Two different people work the same job and travel the same distance to work each day.

They both go to sleep at 11pm and leave for work at 8am.

Person #1 is of the opinion that rising at 6am is better

because "he has an extra hour to prepare for work" (fact).

Person #2 is of the opinion that rising at 7am is better

because "he has an extra hour of sleep each night" (fact).

--------------------------

The question for emkay is, if your opinion is fact-based then please present some of these supposed facts. I've searched through this whole thread and found very little that would qualify as facts that back up your opinion, and you've certainly stated none in your initial post.

And, if it's your intent to affect the current state of A8 demo production, then your facts (if you can come up with any) should be compared with demos of the same class (i.e.: not intros or tech demos) and produced in the last 5 years. Otherwise your comparisons are going to be irrelevant (as the case was with the demo you showed from 1991) unless you plan on travelling back in time and taking this thread with you.

 

Although I would use TRUTH, instead of fact here, between this post and my earlier reply, I now agree that ther is fact based opinion, to, me your example is truth based opinion. But based on my truth vs. fact example, I have come up with what I do consider fact based opinion; "the sky is black and blue most of the time(fact), but I don't like those colors(opinion)." Edited September 18, 2017 by Gunstar

[danwinslow]

Wow, this is the most successful trolling I've seen in a while. OP is winning by a mile, not because they are right, but because you guys are all excited about it.

[JamesD]

This is giving me flashbacks. Anyone remember atariksi?

[+Stephen]

This is giving me flashbacks. Anyone remember atariksi?

Envious snake!

[Irgendwer]

Envious snake!

 

Where is a Chewbacca defense when needed...

[JamesD]

 

Where is a Chewbacca defense when needed...

Hiding out at Krishnasoft no doubt.

 

Digital Joysticks are better than analog because SCIENCE! Scientific study.... party of one.

 

[emkay]

imo the A8 was the incredible computer of the 70's, far ahead of it's time with even better graphics than the C64

Except horizontal color-density and vertical sprite control.

I'm working on a cross compiler to allow Flashback BASIC games to run on the A8 with no changes to the code, similar to the cross compiler that is now working between the SuperCharger and the CBS RAM memory access protocol in the Atari Flashback Portable; this one will similarly abstract CTIA and TIA.

 

 

It may end up being even more compatible - here is a cross compiled game SuperCharger SpaceInvaders where the latest version no longer runs on the SuperCharger, not because the code isn't compatible but simply because there is an extra K (5K vs 4K free) available to Flashback BASIC:

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/269548-supercharger-spaceinvaders/?p=3850161

 

I'm expecting all the games to cross compile fine on an 8K Atari 400 when I finish the A8 compiler, but it would be far more difficult to write a cross compiler for the C64 because it's powerful graphics architecture isn't as flexibly close to the 2600.

Possibly there is something pointing to. On the 2600 it is recommended to "run the beam" . Which means to have every frame completed and directly shown. That drops down the resolution and details, but things move fluently.

[tschak909]

@emkay, do you wake up every morning to the thought of "who the hell can I piss off, today?"

 

-Thom

[Lavalamp]

 

Midi Maze is a time-piece example

 

I had forgotten about Midi-Maze, way ahead of its time!

[emkay]

I'm expecting all the games to cross compile fine on an 8K Atari 400 when I finish the A8 compiler, but it would be far more difficult to write a cross compiler for the C64 because it's powerful graphics architecture isn't as flexibly close to the 2600.

On the Atari the 4x4 mode using gr. 10 GTIA mode allows to have a fluent screen movement at all...

 

That's why I personally like Strictly Gone Bananas very much.

 

[Keatah]

To answer the OP's question directly. It's simple, it's a matter of how much time and effort were put into any one demo. I've seen crappy and awe-inspiring demos on both lesser hardware and on more capable/deluxe hardware. It is what it is.

 

---

 

Having said that I always believed the Atari 400/800 rigs were mostly under-utilized back in the day. Not because of some demo or anything, I'm talking about games and applications. I always felt that the machines could have been pushed farther more frequently then they were.

 

They should have used the 800's slots more advantageously instead of just for memory. I bet there were simple enhancements Atari could have done at the factory to stretch performance. More memory, 2x speed processor card, more comprehensive ROM cartridge. Co-processor, 80-column display, RTC, double-blitter, things like that.

 

And I do agree the Early Atari 8-bitters had the advantage over C64 because when given a choice between Atari or Commodore, we mostly went with Atari. Citing characteristics like speed and crispness of graphics. The C64 just felt a little sluggish.

 

Thing that I believe made C64 super popular was that everybody seemed to want to program it. It didn't look as intimidating and imposing as the Atari 800. And that can sway a lot of buyers not familiar with things tech.

[kiwilove]

It's not so much different from the Beta vs VHS war as such. Beta was suppose to be the better quality system - as evidenced with it being accepted in the professional video field - like for TV stations etc use --- but because VHS became the mass market leader (has the greater market share) - more resources was put into upgrading it's hardware capability - that VHS got to be better and better? There were so pretty advanced features on offer (if you're willing to pay for it) that appeared on later VHS machines.

 

The Atari 400/800 got the initial lead with advanced capability present - and various programmers put this to good use in their games. I never liked the Vic-20 because the Atari 400 outclassed it - but not with it's keyboard and pricing. And when the C-64 first appeared - there was little in the first titles to demonstrate what it could really do? But of course it's pricing was fantastic. Having more hardware sprites than the Atari's was just one of the advantages of it's hardware. But it takes time for programmers to explore the hardware and what it is capable of. The Ataris had less and less market share as time went by. That it was far more profitable if you produced a C-64 game and so development for the Ataris became less and less.

 

I like to see a versatile enough graphics editor available for programmers and graphic designers alike - which could then be inserted almost any game? The ones running on Atari hardware - did not appeal to me - were not quick and easy to use?

 

Harvey

Edited September 19, 2017 by kiwilove

[Keatah]

I could have gotten into C64 more than I did, but that drive was too slow and its DOS felt clumsy compared to the freewheeling feel of Apple's Disk II and DOS 3.3. Just an opinion.

[+wood_jl]

The 8-bit Atari computer was much more inspiring than this thread, for which there seems to be no point, whatsoever.

[Keatah]

..and yet here we are with 168 replies spread over pages?? Not sure what makes a thread pointless or worthwhile.

[emkay]

The 8-bit Atari computer was much more inspiring than this thread, for which there seems to be no point, whatsoever.

If you have a closer look at this thread, everything else seems more inspiring than the Atari.

 

Also, even the company that did the best games at all for the Atari, Lucasfilm Games, did those games only for a prepaid fund of 1Million Dollars .

Putting other great games aside (Encounter, Dimension X , Wayout, Capture the Flag) every other development into that directions suffers by not really finished software, which is based on missing inspiration...

[+wood_jl]

You have degraded to the point of just trying to create controversy. I can't possibly conceive as to why.

 

At one time, I thought you were a true Atari 8-bit Computer enthusiast. I like those folks!!! I try to be one, myself!

 

However, you're just a shit-starter and shit-stirrer.

 

If the 8-bit is "uninspiring,", then find another hobby. Please stop posting about something so "uninspiring."

[+wood_jl]

..and yet here we are with 168 replies spread over pages?? Not sure what makes a thread pointless or worthwhile.

 

 

Oh, is THAT THE METRIC that we measure "worthwhile" threads by?

 

 

Well, here's a real winner, then.....

 

http://atariage.com/forums/topic/134852-atari-v-commodore/page-464?do=findComment&comment=1867475

 

 

There's a real winner, then, with 464 pages. Yeah, I participated, but I was wrong. But since that's the metric of success......

[adamchevy]

I vote that this thread gets locked and deleted for redundancy and trolling. Not that I get a vote, but if I did!

Edited September 20, 2017 by adamchevy

[emkay]

You have degraded to the point of just trying to create controversy. I can't possibly conceive as to why.

Because the argumentations for any controversy were empty?

 

If there was controversy, I'd never started this thread.

 

On the Atari many games, demos whatsoever have been released as final, when others would named them beta or even alpha versions....

 

Full playable games like "Turrican" never arrived the Atari. And still, there is no Wolf 3D like game around...

 

It's just Lucasfilm Games who took a "Supercomputer-Animation" and reduced it to the Atari, keeping the "3D feeling alive" ...

 

Or, what about Alternate Reality: The City? In a german gaming magazin, they almost laughed over the "fuzzy sprites" on the Atari 8-bits.

Some graphical Update or "Atari more worthy" 3D rendering for the City (or Dungeon) has never been done.

 

 

And, it's not about to push anything down: It's about "hey , the Atari can do it! But why do people , who have time for doing some stuff for it, don't even care " ...

[Keatah]

Back in the day I had buddies that were extraordinarily passionate about Vic-20 and C-64. They programmed with a zest and zeal that almost scared me. They were part of sleepovers in bunk beds and under them and all cozied up in the winter. Discussing real business plans for selling their games. Truly the best of times.

 

We also did the same thing with Atari. Did the dual Star Raiders thing, pilot/navigator. Wrote stories about how the 400/800 had special powers beyond that of a Cray-1 super-computer, and typed up programs to prove our point, in a sci-fi'ish way. My buddies had loads of fun messing with the Assembler/Editor cartridge. And of course the arcade games. Everyone liked the faster action on the 400/800.

 

I did all kinds of electronics and telecom experiments with the Apple II. I learned the ins and outs and everything about the Disk II. I was the Apple guru of the neighborhood. I loved writing small programs that would do Lissajous and Bessel contour plots. And of course the Apple inspired all kinds of space exploration stories. We wrote about how like 50 years into the future we'd have crystalline storage that would fit in a slot and hold a complete library's worth of information and processors a million times faster. Surely those were all silly cockamaney ideas, now, weren't they?

 

So it seems that all these platforms, and likely others, obviously had passionate followers. And we all liked each micro in its own way. Sometimes one fell out of favor when a "discovery" was made on another one - then it became the favorite. And round-n-round we'd go. Even dipping into discussions and arguments about the TRS-80 and TI lineup, though no one from my immediate day to day gang had them.

 

It would be difficult to say which of those had the most inspiring and passionate programmers & users.

 

---

 

I also believe that each and every platform has a whole garbage bag full of half-assed partially finished programs. Many of which are not inspiring at all. They all started out as some cool idea, but quickly went south when the enormity of the task became evident.

[Keatah]

And, it's not about to push anything down: It's about "hey , the Atari can do it! But why do people , who have time for doing some stuff for it, don't even care " ...

 

If I understand that and its context right. I'll say it's all business. If you're thinking of ports of games from one machine to the other, then definitely, yes, business.

 

An example I like to use. StarBlazer on the Apple II. It's pretty good, maybe even excellent. And it was written first on the Apple II. But when ported to the Atari 400/800 as SkyBlazer, it was almost identical, same sounds, same graphics, totally uninspiring because it didn't make use of the Atari's custom chipset in any significant way. Certainly none that stood out.

 

So why did that happen? Seems that Br0derbund hired out a company to do the porting from Apple to Atari. It was purely a business decision, how can we get from here to there the cheapest. You'll observe this phenomenon with a lot of ports. They tend to be written first on the machine whose style is most matched to the finished product. And Star Raiders never really ported well to the Apple II. Does this situation make either platform uninspiring? I don't think so. It's just numbers and business. How much additional exposure can we get for how much $$$..?

Edited September 20, 2017 by Keatah