Todd Rogers banned from Twin Galaxies and records removed

[Andromeda Stardust]

Is there a version of this WR run without the obnoxious techno trance audio dub? Commentary is fine, but I want to actually hear the actual game audio.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/33493047

[Supergun]

The rivets stage "jumping near DK for points" glitch is obviously allowed, because it is done in many of the high score submission videos.

 

But the problem is that some scoring tricks are allowed and some are not. It's a crazy silly grey area in the world of high scores, and it has no rhyme or reason. IMHO, if it's in the game, then it's in the game. It should either all be allowed, or not at all.

 

Case in point, just look at "score roll over" in the first place. On a high score screen, if 999,990 is the max score displayed, then when a player rolls it over, and ends with say 1,256,000 but yet the game considers it 256,000, then that's what it is.

[Cynicaster]

Point pressing techniques are definitely a grey area, but I think the rivet stage "toe jump" trick gets a pass because its exploitation is kept in check by the bonus timer; you can't just sit there forever and rack up points. Not only that, but beyond level 5 or so, the bonus timer ticks down quicker than you can gather points by doing the toe jump, so there is no net benefit to doing it.

[toymailman]

 

I think the reason why is that so many of his scores were highly suspect. A good example was Fathom. His record was 1,110,500. Second place? 142

Yes!!!

 

We played this back in the original HSC season 9 week 11 (here). Several were able to finish the game. Yes, this game has an end. The top score was 24k. I think maybe around 27k would be an absolute max, but again the game ENDS! It doesn't keep going where you can continually rack up points. Heck, I think 30k is impossible. 1 million?

Edited March 4, 2018 by toymailman

[NE146]

Yes!!!

 

We played this back in the original HSC season 9 week 11 (here). Several were able to finish the game. Yes, this game has an end. The top score was 24k. I think maybe around 27k would be an absolute max, but again the game ENDS! It doesn't keep going where you can continually rack up points. Heck, I think 30k is impossible. 1 million?

 

Well you have to be really good to get that score and you guys probably just didn't have the 3l33t sk1llz

[CapitanClassic]

Yes!!!

 

We played this back in the original HSC season 9 week 11 (here). Several were able to finish the game. Yes, this game has an end. The top score was 24k. I think maybe around 27k would be an absolute max, but again the game ENDS! It doesn't keep going where you can continually rack up points. Heck, I think 30k is impossible. 1 million?

The scoring for the game is your life total (starts at 50 each level), multiplied by the level. Each level, there are a certain number of pink seahorses/pink birds that you can collect before they all turn gray and you can no longer gain bonus health. There are also a limited number of times that you can gain bonus health from transitioning from a bird/dolphin (10 health)

 

If you add it all up, the maximum score if you never lost any health and could instantaneously collect all the bonus health, and not lose any from being in a screen other than the transition screen is ....

 

(344)+

(534*2)+

(796*3)+

(1034*4)+

(1228*5)+

(1452*6)+

(1794*7) = 35,347

 

Probably taking into account the time to transition to all the screens to collect the pieces of the trident, and the bonus health, I would guess that the theoretical tool assisted max is somewhere between 27k - 30k.

[bigfriendly]

I had an interesting encounter with Todd Rogers at the 2015 Classic Game Fest in Austin. Check it out here:

 

http://www.brettweisswords.com/2018/01/todd-rogers-funny-thing-happened-at.html

 

Great read thanks for posting the link. I just have to say that I find this whole thing very interesting and I have enjoyed reading this thread. I had never even heard of the "King of Kong" until just recently when I watched some YouTube vids about the whole Billy Mitchell cheatgate scandal. I discovered that the movie was posted on YouTube so I watched it last night. I felt so bad for Weibe when all of those TG hacks sat there and watched that video just moments after Steve had set the record. The video's authenticity was even brought into question by ref's after it's first viewing that day!

 

Nobody had the stones to stand up to Mitchell though and he got special treatment by the throng of brown nosers that followed him around like a bunch of 12 year Justin Bieber fans! Hell, if that Brian Kuh had his nose any further up Mitchell's ass he would have to have been Pinocchio! Anyway, the movie was good and with all of these new developments that made it even more entertaining to watch. What makes this so sad is that if Mitchell never sends the fake video and just plays it cool on his record getting broken he still would have maintained his persona as a legendary gamer. His Pac-Man high score is legit, right?

 

He would still have been invited to attend gaming conventions he could still style his mullet he could still wear funny looking ties and people would still wait in line to get his autograph. Steve Weibe appears to be an absolute class act. I mean look at this guy. He is a father, school teacher, baseball coach and he can play the piano and even jammed on his kid's drum set! He is the one that I would like to drink a cold beer with. I look forward to any new developments with this continuing story.

Edited April 22, 2018 by bigfriendly

[negative1]

 

I felt so bad for Weibe when all of those TG hacks sat there and watched that video just moments after Steve had set the record. The video's authenticity was even brought into question by ref's after it's first viewing that day!

 

Steve Weibe appears to be an absolute class act. I mean look at this guy. He is a father, school teacher, baseball coach and he can play the piano and even jammed on his kid's drum set! He is the one that I would like to drink a cold beer with. I look forward to any new developments with this continuing story.

 

Don't put Weibe on a pedestal either. He knew what was going on, and his performances and reactions were faked and edited to make him look sympathetic also. The scenes were shot out of order, so when he cried, that was shot on a different day. Also, the whole going into the garage to check out the board scene was faked. This has been documented and confirmed in the TG forums, and other classic gaming forums, and by other people that appeared in the film as minor characters. (See classicarcadegaming.com site).

 

They are all just acting it up to make the storyline fit, because if it wasn't it wouldn't be entertaining. Other key players scores were left off, and people weren't mentioned that had high scores.

 

This of course, was nowhere near a 'documentary', and although it had elements of it, be wary of believing any of it was real, or happened as portrayed.

 

---------------------

 

As far as the pac-man score goes, it too is questionable, as the tapes need to be watched to verify whether the ending was cut off or not. There is also the possiblity he took longer breaks than allowed.

On the official TG board, it claimed the time was exactly 5 hours 30 minutes, which doesn't seem correct either. There are many question marks about his 'performance' also. Yes, he was good at it,

but he broke an agreement on when the game was going to be played, and he had the settings changed to 5 men+1 just so he could be the first to get that record.

 

later

-1

Edited April 26, 2018 by negative1

[negative1]

Update on Billy Mitchell lawsuit:

 

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/05/billy-mitchell-takes-his-donkey-kong-high-score-cheating-case-to-court/

 

later

-1

[negative1]

And the saga continues. 

 

Course case should be on October 15th.

 

https://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/210224-Post-Verdict-Dispute-Discussion-Jeremy-Young-Arcade-Donkey-Kong-Points-Hammer-Allowed-Player-Billy-L-Mitchell-Score-1-062-800/page55?s=3f88bb39527c93ffbbee4321a5aa32c2

 

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/07/twin-galaxies-says-billy-mitchell-flirts-with-perjury-in-high-score-case/?comments=1&post=39304483

 

later

-1

[keithbk]

Here's my new high score! Take THAT, Mr. Rogers.

 

Oh, and I would like to let everyone know that I did NOT Photoshop the score. Nope, didn't do it...

[Machine]

1 hour ago, keithbk said:

Here's my new high score! Take THAT, Mr. Rogers.

 

Oh, and I would like to let everyone know that I did NOT Photoshop the score. Nope, didn't do it...

You just joined the" Dragster Sub 5.57 Club"!

 

[Cynicaster]

I was on fire... this is a new record I think

 

[Greg2600]

Look my stance has never wavered on this.  Mitchell, Wiebe, Rogers have brought the mainstream and fun to classic games.  Nobody outside a tiny niche would have cared about Twin Galaxies, where records involve men sitting at a game for 3 days straight.  It's pure lunacy. 

[Lauren Tyler]

I first encountered Todd in 2004 in the first season of the Atari 2600 High Score Club.  He always had the highest score possible, but only provided screen captures, which could easily have been edited via PhotoShop.  They later discovered many of his scores were fake and/or impossible to achieve, as well as the fact he entered his own scores, and he was banned and stripped of all his records.  He got what he deserved.

 

Billy Mitchell has a lot to lose from losing all of his records, which is why he's filing this lawsuit.  I think it's a waste of time, since the analysis was carefully done.

[negative1]

At this point, money talks, and guiness can be paid off. They are scared of being sued, so thats why they caved.

 

No one that plays videogames seriously, would ever care about a Guiness book of world records, they've lost all

credibility since they dont have any experts, and are only there to observe.

 

If you can pay them, you can pretty much have any exclusive world record, as long as its unique.

(you know jumping on a pogo stick while juggling underwater, etc).

 

later

-1

[Cynicaster]

I know it's been said before, but it would be interesting to know what Billy Mitchell thinks he's gaining from all his recent litigious theatrics, even if he succeeds at strong-arming everybody into pretending to accept his fake scores.    

 

As it is, there is only a tiny niche demographic that ascribes the slightest significance to achievements on these old videogames.  Anybody who happens to be part of that tiny group is going to be "with it" enough to understand how plain-as-day it is that Billy achieved his scores using an emulator.  Nobody else gives a shit.  So what's the point?  

 

How do you explain this behavior to friends and family with a straight face?  It's baffling to think about.  

 

 

[negative1]

2 hours ago, Cynicaster said:

I know it's been said before, but it would be interesting to know what Billy Mitchell thinks he's gaining from all his recent litigious theatrics, even if he succeeds at strong-arming everybody into pretending to accept his fake scores.    

 

As it is, there is only a tiny niche demographic that ascribes the slightest significance to achievements on these old videogames.  Anybody who happens to be part of that tiny group is going to be "with it" enough to understand how plain-as-day it is that Billy achieved his scores using an emulator.  Nobody else gives a sh**.  So what's the point?  

 

How do you explain this behavior to friends and family with a straight face?  It's baffling to think about.  

 

 

He is claiming significant losses in his business, and also for appearances and such. Defamation etc.

 

So he stands to gain quite a bit if he wins. It's not just about the prestige.

 

later

-1

[+Nathan Strum]

4 hours ago, negative1 said:

He is claiming significant losses in his business, and also for appearances and such. Defamation etc.

Hot sauce sales are plummeting since he had to stop using the tagline "The only hot sauce in the world peddled by a Donkey Kong world record holder!"

[negative1]

14 hours ago, Nathan Strum said:

Hot sauce sales are plummeting since he had to stop using the tagline "The only hot sauce in the world peddled by a Donkey Kong world record holder!"

He is claiming he lost several hundred thousand dollars, but he didn't mention that the website was down during most of that time, go figure.

 

later

-1

[jamm]

A person like that is 100% ego-focused.  It wouldn't matter if it cost him his life's savings, he'd still pursue fixing his "reputation".  Half the time I think people like that get what they want despite being in the wrong simply because no one else cares nearly as much.

Edited October 9, 2020 by jamm

[Greg2600]

22 hours ago, negative1 said:

At this point, money talks, and guiness can be paid off. They are scared of being sued, so thats why they caved.

 

No one that plays videogames seriously, would ever care about a Guiness book of world records, they've lost all

credibility since they dont have any experts, and are only there to observe.

 

If you can pay them, you can pretty much have any exclusive world record, as long as its unique.

(you know jumping on a pogo stick while juggling underwater, etc).

 

later

-1

You don't think Guiness has had records they've published challenged before?  It happens, but they have a protocol, which Mitchell met, to be reinstated.  They were not "paid" or threatened with a suit.  Guiness is not expected nor promising to be the International Olympic Committee, tasked with examining every little minutia.  While you're correct, competitive gamers don't care, the casual public does.  That's who Mitchell wants to "re-convince," and it's exactly why he's still suing TG. 

[negative1]

1 hour ago, Greg2600 said:

You don't think Guiness has had records they've published challenged before?  It happens, but they have a protocol, which Mitchell met, to be reinstated.  They were not "paid" or threatened with a suit.  Guiness is not expected nor promising to be the International Olympic Committee, tasked with examining every little minutia.  While you're correct, competitive gamers don't care, the casual public does.  That's who Mitchell wants to "re-convince," and it's exactly why he's still suing TG. 

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20190912/17395042980/billy-mitchell-threatens-to-sue-guinness-world-record-folks-removing-his-records.shtml

 

Now, a year and a half later, Mitchell had a law firm send a threat letter to both Guinness and Twin Galaxies, demanding a retraction. There's also the, um, 156-page "evidence pack." Notably, despite the legal threat letter demanding a "retraction" for "their defamatory statements made against him," nowhere in the letter does it lay out which specific statements are actually defamatory. That's kind of a key thing that you're supposed to do if you have a legitimate claim of defamation. What actual statements the letter does mention don't seem to come close to the standard for defamation. Instead, Mitchell's lawyers are nitpicking about Guinness' specific word choice. 

 

later

-1

Edited October 9, 2020 by negative1

[Lauren Tyler]

1 hour ago, jamm said:

A person like that is 100% ego-focused.  It wouldn't matter if it cost him his life's savings, he'd still pursue fixing his "reputation".  Half the time I think people like that get what they want despite being in the wrong simply because no one else cares nearly as much.

I agree, he definitely is sounding very egotistical here.

[+D Train]

11 hours ago, Lauren Tyler said:

I agree, he definitely is sounding very egotistical here.

it's pretty clear there's no lack of ego on that guy.