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1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said:

Or HSIO enabled in the U1MB for anyone who has that. Normal SIO is SLOW. :) In fact all SIO seems slow, but HSIO is best. :)

I use the HSIO in the U1MB all the time with my SIO2PC/USB at divisor 0.  It IS fast as heck for SIO, but I'm so used to [email protected] from the Side2's card slot that [email protected] doesn't amaze the way it might.  Still takes a good while to copy a 16meg partition to the SIO port.  I use it to move data between machines and to keep an up-to-date boot for my benchbox.  Benchbox hosts an SIO2PC/USB for the machines that cross it and it is nice to have a 'hard disk' full of warez to test with.

 

You know, a machine that is not 100% will not run Carina II reliably, so that's a great burn-in.  I've been using "Drunk Chessboard" as a tester recently.  That program really beats on a machine.  only 16k, but if there's anything really wrong, it will not run.

 

That said, I have Carina II running on a machine that will not accept cartridges.  I'm not sure what that is about, but there's at least ONE serious flaw it won't reveal.  I think it is probably the 74ls08, but I've been too lazy do diagnose it yet.

 

Best,

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeffrey Worley

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5 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

Sort of think I'm doing it right, if I turn the HDD of I get the AVG menu back but I still get the HSIO from the U1mb but it seems slower than the sideloader..is it?

 

To answer that myself, yes its slower, via the Sideloader with HDD on its blistering...

 

for some reason ATR emulation seems to be confusing to people so let's recap it once again (this is my understanding and view of the situation, please correct me if i'm wrong anywhere)

 

three major ways to emulate floppy (using ATR files)

 

1. softkicked patched OS

 

OS ROM is disabled and patched OS is copied into RAM at the same region

patch redirects requests to D devices to the cart

 

+ fast

+ doesn't need any HW modification/extra HW (besides multicart)

 

- doesn't work if ATR uses its own SIO routines (bypasses OS)

- doesn't work if ATR reenables OS ROM or overwrites RAM that holds patched OS (probably most common cause of failure)

- lowest compatibility of the three methods

 

used by: Uno Cart, AVGCART, SIDE 3 (not an official information)

 

2. PBI

 

uses an official way to extend OS via extra code that can be mapped via PBI

this is what U1MB is doing, PBI BIOS (by fjc) is that extra code that is called by OS (no modification of OS needed unlike in method 1) and it handles the requests and reads/writes from/to ATR files stored on any compatible storage device (SIDE*, AVGCART with SIDE emulation enabled, maybe more)

mapping of ATR files is normally done in U1MB's SIDE Loader, i believe it's possible to do that also programmatically so technically even AVGCART's menu (or any other SW) could directly mount them without having to go to the SIDE Loader

 

+ fast

+ compatible with most ATR

 

+- in case of AVGCART, you currently (0020) need to do the mapping in SIDE Loader (SHIFT-S (to enable one-time SIDE emulation), HELP+RESET, L or by setting AVGCART to boot directly into SIDE emulation and set U1MB to start SIDE Loader automatically)

 

- needs extra HW (internally mounted) compared to multicart only solutions

- incompatible with some ATR that either talk directly to SIO (bypasses OS) or expect some behavior of real SIO communication (timings, interrupts?) but it's still order of magnitude more compatible than method 1 since this is likely not very common (i'm no expert here)

 

used by: U1MB (+ compatible storage device)

 

3. real SIO device

 

any device with physical connection to SIO port (all SIO2*, SDrive*, AVGCART with SIO cable, ...)

this is also the only method where HSIO matters

 

+ should be 100% compatible since there should be no technical limitation, if something doesn't work, it's probably just a bug that should be fixed

+ allows ATX and CAS emulation

 

- slower than previous methods (limited by serial communication to around 126k baud (if HSIO is in use, 19200 baud otherwise) + some mandatory delays in the protocol)

- in case of AVGCART, there's an ugly cable that connects AVGCART to SIO port and turns your Atari into Commodore

 

used by: SIO2*, SDrive*, AVGCART with SIO cable, ...

Edited by tmp
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To be fair, If you have a U1MB and either a SIDE or AVG cart the chances are you will have a SD-Max or similar so there's plenty of choice around but yes with all the choice it can be a little confusing so thanks for the breakdown tmp.

 

Quote

in case of AVGCART, there's an ugly cable that connects AVGCART to SIO port and turns your Atari into Commodore

Don't start them off, that's a ticking time bomb :)

Edited by Mclaneinc
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Need help making sense of AVGCart, SIDE emulation, Flash SpartaDosX. So I've had my AVG cart for a month or so. Thanks to COVID lockdowns, it took forever to get it. I bought this cart because I want to run SpartaDosX on my 65XE. As well as all the other advantages of a multi-cart. I've updated the Cart to v19. Initially I downloaded the SIDE and SIDE2 SpartaDosX ROMs and placed them on the flash card. But they would not boot. Using De Re AVG Cart, I partitioned my SD card as described in that guide. Formatted the remaining FAT32 partition. Copied OSXEX to he root of the FAT32 partition. Downloaded FlashJazzCat's SIDE loader and SpartaDosX roms and placed them on the SD card. Both of FlashJazzCat's roms will load. I also found the 128K from from SpartaDos will boot as well.

 

When I boot either SpartaDos ROM, it goes to D1. But a DIR of D1 says device not found. I don't currently have an SIO drive connected. I was able to format I. And can see that. But where are all the SpartaDosX files? When you boot from disk, there is the COM, and possibly a host of other files, like TDATE, TDLINE, ect. TDATE works, but I don't know where it is. Where does AutoExec.bat read from? All this makes sense with SpartaDos 3.2 and booting from disk. But booting SpartaDosX ROM is new to me What's the best way to get the SpartaDosX tools that you can download? My best guess is you place them on your SIO2SD device and mount it as D1. I guess then you can copy them to a hard disk partition?

 

As for SIDE emulation and the SIDE loader, based on FlashJazzCat's doc, it looks like it supports XEX and ATR's. But not CAR or ROM files. I don't even see those on my SD card when using the SIDE loader. What are the benefits of using SIDE loader instead of the default AVG software?

 

In addition, I using the stock composite video. And I've noticed the fonts of the AVG and SIDE loaders appears off, compared to the video's I've seen for both products. Is that expected with stock video on modern LED TV's.

Edited by gs80065xe

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4 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:
Quote

in case of AVGCART, there's an ugly cable that connects AVGCART to SIO port and turns your Atari into Commodore

 

Don't start them off, that's a ticking time bomb :)

animation illustration GIF by MOOT

 

I guess depending on how the cable was made, it could be ugly, but I personally think this set-up (at least for me) is awesome. Mine runs from AVGCart to P:R:Connection and back to my 8-bit. Works fantastic.

 

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8 minutes ago, gs80065xe said:

Need help making sense of AVGCart, SIDE emulation, Flash SpartaDosX. So I've had my AVG cart for a month or so. Thanks to COVID lockdowns, it took forever to get it. I bought this cart because I want to run SpartaDosX on my 65XE. As well as all the other advantages of a multi-cart. I've updated the Cart to v19. Initially I downloaded the SIDE and SIDE2 SpartaDosX ROMs and placed them on the flash card. But they would not boot. Using De Re AVG Cart, I partitioned my SD card as described in that guide. Formatted the remaining FAT32 partition. Copied OSXEX to he root of the FAT32 partition. Downloaded FlashJazzCat's SIDE loader and SpartaDosX roms and placed them on the SD card. Both of FlashJazzCat's roms will load. I also found the 128K from from SpartaDos will boot as well.

 

When I boot either SpartaDos ROM, it goes to D1. But a DIR of D1 says device not found. I don't currently have an SIO drive connected. I was able to format I. And can see that. But where are all the SpartaDosX files? When you boot from disk, there is the COM, and possibly a host of other files, like TDATE, TDLINE, ect. TDATE works, but I don't know where it is. Where does AutoExec.bat read from? All this makes sense with SpartaDos 3.2 and booting from disk. But booting SpartaDosX ROM is new to me What's the best way to get the SpartaDosX tools that you can download? My best guess is you place them on your SIO2SD device and mount it as D1. I guess then you can copy them to a hard disk partition?

 

As for SIDE emulation and the SIDE loader, based on FlashJazzCat's doc, it looks like it supports XEX and ATR's. But not CAR or ROM files. I don't even see those on my SD card when using the SIDE loader. What are the benefits of using SIDE loader instead of the default AVG software?

 

In addition, I using the stock composite video. And I've noticed the fonts of the AVG and SIDE loaders appears off, compared to the video's I've seen for both products. Is that expected with stock video on modern LED TV's.

Spartados X has a number of 'new' device names.  One is CAR:  CAR: is where Spartados X and all it's work files reside.  So, DIR CAR: will give you a directory of the cartridge.

 

Best,

 

Jeff

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I don't think Jon's loader supports CAR files, I know as from the video's that the side3 is being made to load roms as he demonstrates many of them..Not so sure it loaded car's before, as Jeff says, there isa car command but its for the SDX.

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38 minutes ago, gs80065xe said:

As for SIDE emulation and the SIDE loader, based on FlashJazzCat's doc, it looks like it supports XEX and ATR's. But not CAR or ROM files. I don't even see those on my SD card when using the SIDE loader.

The SIDE loader which runs on the AVG cart (in 'SIDE mode') is designed for the SIDE1/SIDE2 cartridge, and neither of those devices supports cartridge emulation, and thus neither supports the loading of CAR or ROM files (an older version of the loader supported the loading of simple 8K ROMs, but I dropped support for that). Furthermore, since AVG's SIDE mode exposes no API for cartridge mounting, it is not possible to access AVG's cartridge emulation facilities from anything but the built-in AVG loader.

 

Essentially, AVG's SIDE emulation mode provides you with a SIDE2 cartridge, but it's not a free lunch, since there is no emulated RTC or NVRAM in which the loader can store your settings.

 

SIDE3 does provide cartridge emulation, however; therefore the SIDE3 loader lists and supports CAR and ROM files. You will not be able to run the SIDE3 loader on the AVG cartridge, however.

38 minutes ago, gs80065xe said:

What are the benefits of using SIDE loader instead of the default AVG software?

None but whichever loader front-end the user prefers, really. Where AVG's SIDE emulation mode really comes into its own is on an U1MB system. The lack of emulated RTC is then a non-issue, since you use the loader built into U1MB, and the AVG behaves like a SIDE2 cartridge which happens to use SD cards. You then get the benefits of APT hard disk partitions, as well as FAT-hosted ATRs, etc. But no access to cart loading until you go back to the AVG loader, at which point you lose the APT HDD capability. :)

 

SIDE3 - on an U1MB system, with custom PBI BIOS - does everything U1MB/SIDE2 does, with cartridge emulation thrown in. Everything (cart mounting, partition mounting, ATR mounting, XEX loading, etc) is accomplished from the same loader.

Edited by flashjazzcat

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50 minutes ago, gs80065xe said:

When I boot either SpartaDos ROM, it goes to D1. But a DIR of D1 says device not found. I don't currently have an SIO drive connected. I was able to format I. And can see that. But where are all the SpartaDosX files?

as already mentioned, CAR:

Quote

When you boot from disk, there is the COM, and possibly a host of other files, like TDATE, TDLINE, ect. TDATE works, but I don't know where it is. Where does AutoExec.bat read from?

SDX manual says

 

"During the boot process, SDX will automatically execute a batch file in the main
directory on D1: called 'AUTOEXEC.BAT', if exists. "

 

so apparently you either need to have a sio device that will handle D1: or make any of your hdd partitions mount as D1: (DA:)

 

i see two occurrences of "BOOT=A:" in .car file but i doubt it'd be that easy to modify to use a different drive (it could be possible to change that in CONFIG.SYS using sdx imaging tool, needs to be tested)

Quote

As for SIDE emulation and the SIDE loader, based on FlashJazzCat's doc, it looks like it supports XEX and ATR's. But not CAR or ROM files. I don't even see those on my SD card when using the SIDE loader. What are the benefits of using SIDE loader instead of the default AVG software?

i believe some people used side loader CAR to be able to launch pdm.xex to play PDM audio files but that's not needed anymore

Quote

 

In addition, I using the stock composite video. And I've noticed the fonts of the AVG and SIDE loaders appears off, compared to the video's I've seen for both products. Is that expected with stock video on modern LED TV's.

photo? (not that i would be able to tell but someone else might)

Edited by tmp

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1 hour ago, Mclaneinc said:

I love the cable, not ugly in the slightest..

Ditto, but there should be more blinkin' lights.  What's a computer or peripheral without blinkin' lights?

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Ha ha, that's why mine is plugged into Lothareks SIO splitter, 4 nice SMD leds for the power and SIO...Pretty...

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2 hours ago, gs80065xe said:

Using De Re AVG Cart, I partitioned my SD card as described in that guide. Formatted the remaining FAT32 partition.

Did you then format any of the partitions you created and assign them to drive letters? If you followed the guide on De Re AVGCART you have a bunch of partitions now starting at D9. You can use fdisk to change one to D1 (the default boot drive) and format it in SDX so that it's usable.

 

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6 minutes ago, Mr Robot said:

Did you then format any of the partitions you created and assign them to drive letters? If you followed the guide on De Re AVGCART you have a bunch of partitions now starting at D9. You can use fdisk to change one to D1 (the default boot drive) and format it in SDX so that it's usable.

 

Yes I did. And I just changed D9 to D1. AutoExec.bat works as described.

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2 minutes ago, gs80065xe said:

Yes I did. And I just changed D9 to D1. AutoExec.bat works as described.

So if you want to move that drive to C or something to give you a couple of floppy disks before the hard disk you'd have to modify the s2sdx3.car file with a hex editor to change the boot drive from A to your desired boot disk, (I found that at 0xA1F) and then change the ID in fdisk to C.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Mr Robot said:

you'd have to modify the s2sdx3.car file with a hex editor to change the boot drive from A to your desired boot disk, (I found that at 0xA1F) and then change the ID in fdisk to C.

Why would you have to edit anything with a hex editor? SIDE.SYS derives the CONFIG.SYS drive number from the boot flag as stored by FDISK in the partition table (as per the second part of your guidance).

 

EDIT: I should say 'boot drive' rather than CONFIG.SYS drive, since CONFIG.SYS is always read from the CAR: volume with SIDE.SYS.

Edited by flashjazzcat
Clarity

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1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said:

Why would you have to edit anything with a hex editor? SIDE.SYS derives the CONFIG.SYS drive number from the boot flag as stored by FDISK in the partition table (as per the second part of your guidance).

 

EDIT: I should say 'boot drive' rather than CONFIG.SYS drive, since CONFIG.SYS is always read from the CAR: volume with SIDE.SYS.

So the SIDE ROM without a U1MB works as though the U1MB PBI BIOS has its "Boot Drive" setting set to APT?

 

TIL, Thanks!

 

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Just now, Mr Robot said:

So the SIDE ROM without a U1MB works as though the U1MB PBI BIOS has its "Boot Drive" setting set to APT?

Exactly. :)

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On 7/26/2020 at 4:38 PM, Mr Robot said:

Power on, wait for menu, press G to go to the PDM directory, Press A to launch first file

 

now I have to press return or space to get the ui. Space space, return return, space return and return space all work. 
 

it’s completely repeatable

 

either a single return or space exits the ui fine


once it’s been entered once pressing space or return once works

 

tried it on my 800xl as well. Same result. 

I've fixed this. Here are new builds for all default combinations:

 

avgplay-1.1.zip

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De Re AVGCart says the Cart can Auto start a file / directory when it first powers on using CONTROL + SHIFT + A on the current selected entry. The way that is worded, I take it to mean either file or directory can be flagged to auto start when the computer powers on. But it isn't working that way for me in versions 18 or 19 of the firmware. Is it for directory only?

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that's a change in 0020 (not yet released), it's also present in the latest beta

 

 

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Is there anyone who is selling this ready made? 

 

Can it run homebrew carts like Space Harrier? (I've got my 65XE upgraded to run 128k stuff)

 

Many thanks in advance. 

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In order..

 

Not that I know of...

 

Yes indeed

 

It's a fantastic cart...

 

Best of luck finding it...I know tmp has now added the connector socket internally now to save you having to solder that and I know he's just got some leads BUT I don't think he's doing the sio jack or willing to make them up..

 

If you can get the lead and the plug for the SIO its very very easy, 4 wires only to solder or depending on the SIO plug you get you might be able to crimp the wires although I'd recommend soldering them. The other two wires just twist together

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2 hours ago, Mclaneinc said:

In order..

 

Not that I know of...

 

Yes indeed

 

It's a fantastic cart...

 

Best of luck finding it...I know tmp has now added the connector socket internally now to save you having to solder that and I know he's just got some leads BUT I don't think he's doing the sio jack or willing to make them up..

 

If you can get the lead and the plug for the SIO its very very easy, 4 wires only to solder or depending on the SIO plug you get you might be able to crimp the wires although I'd recommend soldering them. The other two wires just twist together

Thanks - I wouldn't have the confidence to try and put one together.. (and my hands are too unstable to use a soldering iron)

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Send a PM to @tmp, he makes the carts.

If you are looking for the SIO cable, I don't think there are any options there right now.

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