m-crew Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 And now the sad truth: The number of topics which went down like this was growing the last couple of years in the Intellivision Community. In many cases I was a huge part off the problem, but its funny too see that the community doesnt need me to be sick of each other :lol. This is happening because more and more people in our community can see how things have been escalating to this kind of behaviour and until such behaviour is not accepted in any way. Look for it to get even worse. The empty baggies release of the unreleased baggie games coming soon. BTW You were no part of the problem, The problem is such behaviour and a community acceptance of such behaviour. Right or wrong you always expressed what your thoughts were. Better that then being a ? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcade124 Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 And now the sad truth: The number of topics which went down like this was growing the last couple of years in the Intellivision Community. In many cases I was a huge part off the problem, but its funny too see that the community doesnt need me to be sick of each other And another sad fact: Also the number of rip-off Brews has grown. Melk the cow as quick as possible, because tomorrow its maybe too late. Yes, exactly. To the1hatman, intellivotion, and whoever else was denying this, Ignorama has just summed up what I've been saying. If anyone says "it's just once, it's fine", they're helping the problem. See my descriptions of the crash of most communities here on AA. Also, I forget what all you've said and/or done, but from what I'm hearing you're like in me in the sense that you spoke your mind, people were idiots and got offended, and you were correct in your predictions for the communities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-crew Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 (edited) That not going back to normal that's the price affecting supply and demand.. Just like wormwhomper for years a CIB was selling for over 100 us . Take a look what it has been selling for in the last months ... That's what's been happing to a lot of semi rare games.. Demand has dropped so price has dropped.. That's how a market works.. Too may hands in to few pockets, Supply and Demand... Slowly it will be a producer market(or people with deep pockets) just trading off products and $$$$$ ... Like I have mentioned before.. Take a close look... who buys and who sells how many of that list is not involved in any part of the homebrew / farkle product not many as I can see.. but hey that's just my observation.. Not pointing at anyone or any producer just my general observation.. The Intv community on AA looks more like an ebay or amazon sales sight now more then an intv enthusiast and discussion forum .. Hey more Choice is great plus this keeps the intellivion alive but it is what it is.... "it normalizes behaviour that is corrosive to a community which already contains elements that benefit or are impacted from such behaviour" Bang On !!!!!!!!!!!!!! People can Believe what they want to believe.. But things have been happening before and are still happening and has escalated as in Gyruss... Time will tell and will reveal as is happing right now... People could only be fooled and tagged along like sheep for only so long.... Their has been awaken and if people think its only a few.. smell the coffee and just see who frequents this forum.. The enthusiast are dwindling in numbers and the producers are multiplying.. Just look around and see the posts ,the sales ... who plays in the intv HSC .. hmmm very little when we did .. That last time it really mattered was over 4 or 5 years... Their has been and is shady things going on here ... to many producers in to few pockets... bottom line Supply and Demand dictates price and if a so called crash happens ... and prices for most original intellivision games have dropped because demand has dropped and supply is up... more people selling off.. hmm I wonder why... people are getting fed up. There's something happening here What it is ain't exactly clear There's a man with a gun over there Telling me I got to beware I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound Everybody look what's going down There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody's wrong Young people speaking their minds Getting so much resistance from behind It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound Everybody look what's going down Call it what you will a Crash maybe not but it sure is a Supply and Demand thing from homebrews to the original releases and farkles.... Prices have dropped on almost all of the semi rare games.. from Dracula to worm whomper.. just go on ebay and see for your self.. Like I have mentioned before Too may hands in to few pockets, Supply and Demand... Slowly it will be a producer market(or people with deep pockets) just trading off products and $$$$$ So many have jumped on the bandwagon with products for the right or wrong reasons doesn't really matter ... It is and has affected pricing and has opened the Pandora's box for this kind of Shit Show .. Even after all that went on people are still willing to support crap like this(Gyruss to name one)... what will be that next hit for the addiction... ... ;P Edited December 14, 2018 by m-crew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+the1hatman Posted December 14, 2018 Share Posted December 14, 2018 Yes, exactly. To the1hatman, intellivotion, and whoever else was denying this, Ignorama has just summed up what I've been saying. If anyone says "it's just once, it's fine", they're helping the problem. See my descriptions of the crash of most communities here on AA. I'm going to say this in no uncertain terms for the multiple people here who have falsely attributed statements to others in the discussion; At no point have I or intellivotion said "It's just once, it's fine." If you wish to engage in reasoned debate over the topic, that's great. But if you can't make your point without using false statements from people to support your position then you have no real point to make. When you quote someone with something they did not say, you are lying. Have enough integrity to defend your stance without resorting to slander. If you are unsure of the meaning behind any statements, ask for clarification. Otherwise, keep your assumptions to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcade124 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 This is bad but not indicative of the community in general. There it is. It is indicative of the community because its frequency is increasing, and people are supporting it. Look, you're for or against this, you can't be neutral. Which are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KylJoy Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 I haven't heard a single person say that they are for stealing someone else's programming and selling it. I have heard people say, as arcade124 quotes the1hatman as saying, that this behavior is not indicative of the community in general, and I agree with that assertion. For instance, I do not believe that arcade124, the1hatman, m-crew, myself, and almost all other members of the Intellivision community would do that. I think some folks here are, by no malicious intent, talking PAST each other. I ask that folks please take into account that communicating in text in a forum makes it difficult to convey emotion, nuance, etc. In this entire episode, the only people I have seen act horribly are those that stole code and are selling it for personal gain. That behavior is despicable. I would like to see them burn the pile of games they created immediately and post the video of it to YouTube. Then, if they ask for forgiveness from the community, perhaps, over time, they can be forgiven. But right now they are uninterested in forgiveness and are flipping us all the bird. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-crew Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) because its frequency is increasing, and people are supporting it.yup that's exactly what has happened in our community over the last few years. This kind of Shit Show will continue until there is no money to be made or until the supporting and justification of such actions stops. One thing for sure, if this continues it will lead to a crash of some sort.. the drop of prices and the frequency of the semi rare games showing up at auctions sites dictates that something is happing right now.. The producers of inty related products have increased drastically.. compared to the collectors/gamers in the community(balance has shifted to more producers than a community can support)not to mention all the shit shows that happen.. Its a producer supporting producer based community here.... A INTV AA Sales Forum. oh the addicts just cant control that impulse for the next intv hit. So it doesn't matter how or what is thrown in front of an addict the only thing that matters is that next hit. Quality/integrity/or how it came about doesn't matter... Just ill take two.... thank you .... instead of screw you, you stole that code or we don't need empty baggies of unreleased baggie games... Edited December 15, 2018 by m-crew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+intellivotion Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 if, and I highlight if, it's now time for a crash (and you all know that I disagree on that), I'll be happy to be like one of the musicians of the RMS Titanic. I will be having fun until the end 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+fdr4prez Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 many of us played through the first crash, and we still play on the same console today, so if there is another crash then we will still be playing on the same console. If there is another crash, it will not affect me in the least. I will continue to play, and I will continue to go to PRGE, and I will still buy games that interest me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humblejack Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 (edited) Isn't the word "crash" just another way to say "buyer's market"? Edited December 15, 2018 by Humblejack 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignorama Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 if, and I highlight if, it's now time for a crash (and you all know that I disagree on that), I'll be happy to be like one of the musicians of the RMS Titanic. I will be having fun until the end If we are looking at prices the "crash" already happened in many cases. There are many games which went down in prices extremely. Whorm Whomper lost about 60-70% of its value, same is true for River Raid and some others. SMB also lost about half of its price, as well as Congo Bongo. Even Spiker, which isnt surprising since its pretty often on Ebay. But its hard to call it crash, because prices were build by a bubble and sadly Atari Age was a huge part of that bubble. People here are pretty lose if they should put a price tag in Intellivision games, ignoring that the fanbase is very slim. So here, many prices "crashed", but just because they were pushed back then. If we are talking about the meaning of a community, the crash was years ago, may we never had one. I think there was a time when everything was allright, but it was long long time ago. Dont get me wrong, there are still awesome people in the Community, I am not ungrateful. Some helped me to build my collection back then. But unfortunately some of them went sour and bitter over the years. Which isnt surprising at all, because we had too many issues which divided the community in two or more camps and if you supported the one side, you were treated like an enemy of not just the other side, but rather everybody who supported them. And I am not namecalling anybody, nor I am referring to one single situation. If you think a bit about it you will find several examples and many, many persons involded into this. And I am totally aware that I am sounding sour and bitter myself. Actually I am not anymore, but I was at some point. It was about the time I decided to stop using Atari Age as an active member. Meanwhile I am resigned. I still love my collection, but I lost my passion to enlarge it. And I am still a bit bitter about the whole market situation, especially the homebrew market. And its about buyers and sellers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KylJoy Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Part of what makes some of us have negative feelings toward the "community" can be traced to some practices that are, though legal and generally accepted, have some negative elements. For example, I believe that there have been Intellivision related creations for the purpose of personal enrichment at the cost of the Intellivision collecting community. But, I can't PROVE that is the case. We could pick any collectible and claim it was manufactured merely as a money making scheme at the expense of completionists. And, for self evident reasons, it cannot be argued that the original intent of most manufactured/created products was not to enrich the creator. That is most often why people make things and sell them. But there is a "seemingly" malevolent leap from normal capitalism to some sort of exploitation of the collector community when, for instance, certain items are created in short supply purposefully. If the intent is to make money then why limit the release? It is obviously to inflate value. Do I have a problem with that? In the end, no. But it can be argued that it IS still a form of exploitation. I just believe it happens to be a reality of any collector community. And also, in the end, I, too, am a capitalist. Make more HIGH QUALITY Intellivision games! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ignorama Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 personal enrichment This is no one-way road. Also "collectors" bought many copies to sell them to get profit out of the work of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-crew Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 if, and I highlight if, it's now time for a crash (and you all know that I disagree on that), I'll be happy to be like one of the musicians of the RMS Titanic. I will be having fun until the end many of us played through the first crash, and we still play on the same console today, so if there is another crash then we will still be playing on the same console. If there is another crash, it will not affect me in the least. I will continue to play, and I will continue to go to PRGE, and I will still buy games that interest me. This is not about a crash if /when or what ever , Its about this..... "arcade124, on 14 Dec 2018 - 8:01 PM, said: because its frequency is increasing, and people are supporting it." yup that's exactly what has happened in our community over the last few years. This kind of Shit Show will continue until there is no money to be made or until the supporting and justification of such actions stops. One thing for sure, if this continues it will lead to a crash of some sort.. the drop of prices and the frequency of the semi rare games showing up at auctions sites dictates that something is happing right now.. The producers of inty related products have increased drastically.. compared to the collectors/gamers in the community(balance has shifted to more producers than a community can support)not to mention all the shit shows that happen.. Its a producer supporting producer based community here.... A INTV AA Sales Forum. oh the addicts just cant control that impulse for the next intv hit. So it doesn't matter how or what is thrown in front of an addict the only thing that matters is that next hit. Quality/integrity/or how it came about doesn't matter... Just ill take two.... thank you .... instead of screw you, you stole that code or we don't need empty baggies of unreleased baggie games... The escalation of this kind of shit show's becoming the norm....manipulation and exploitation of a community and the community accepting such behavior.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+the1hatman Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 There it is. It is indicative of the community because its frequency is increasing, and people are supporting it. Look, you're for or against this, you can't be neutral. Which are you? There what is? Your continued lack of reading comprehension? Fine, I'll do all the work for you... Oh I wouldn't purchase anything directly from this person. I have no desire to buy stolen work. Be assured that I do not support any use of your work without your permission and that I have no intention of buying anything involving stolen or uncredited programming. Even if the error was in good faith, I cannot buy your game in good conscience if it uses unauthorized code from another programmer. I have ZERO intention of paying $200 for any new homebrew and I get to express that by voting 'NO' with my wallet closed. But there is NO WAY that I, nor most of us here, will ever buy this game if the ROM and source are not posted here or somewhere were artrag can inspect it. The packaging is amazing but I'll wait for Deep Zone to come out. I'd rather support artrag's game anyway. ...but I have to side with m-crew here. There's been so many shenanigans involved with this that I simply can't trust that what I'd be buying is really free of all unauthorized code. Gyruss is a problem and unacceptable... I will be buying the original game artrag programmed when it comes out. ...if they followed artrag's requirements to produce the full code here on AtariAge for him to inspect as proof they had removed all of the code they took from his program. They failed and so Gyruss is dead to me. I will be purchasing Deep Zone when it comes out and supporting artrag's original work. Does that about sum it up for ya? 10 examples across 9 posts going back over 6 months, each with the link since you didn't care to bother reading what was actually said vs. making up BS. The next time you want to twist someone's statements at least give them the courtesy of using their actual words, you abject rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+intellivotion Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 there's only one Intellivision "thing" shown in the video during John Hancock's speech. 1,000 points to the first one who sees it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 there's only one Intellivision "thing" shown in the video during John Hancock's speech. 1,000 points to the first one who sees it Two things I can see: Boxed Intellivision System and a boxed System Changer in the upper left hand corner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+intellivotion Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Boxed System Changer in the upper left hand corner... 1,000 points! even though I've seen there's another one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Noticed the other and got the change in before you had time to reply. Hooray! Can I trade those points in for an unauthorized copy of Gyruss now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+intellivotion Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Two things I can see: Boxed Intellivision System and a boxed System Changer in the upper left hand corner... 2,000 points and highest score of the day Noticed the other and got the change in before you had time to reply. Hooray! Can I trade those points in for an unauthorized copy of Gyruss now? lol ask it to Captain Eyeroll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 2,000 points and highest score of the day lol ask Captain Eyeroll That's okay. Really have no desire to play Gyruss on the Intellivision. Listening to it maybe, but playing - no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-crew Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 yup that's exactly what has happened in our community over the last few years. This kind of Shit Show will continue until there is no money to be made or until the supporting and justification of such actions stops. One thing for sure, if this continues it will lead to a crash of some sort.. the drop of prices and the frequency of the semi rare games showing up at auctions sites dictates that something is happing right now.. The producers of inty related products have increased drastically.. compared to the collectors/gamers in the community(balance has shifted to more producers than a community can support)not to mention all the shit shows that happen.. Its a producer supporting producer based community here.... A INTV AA Sales Forum. oh the addicts just cant control that impulse for the next intv hit. So it doesn't matter how or what is thrown in front of an addict the only thing that matters is that next hit. Quality/integrity/or how it came about doesn't matter... Just ill take two.... thank you .... instead of screw you, you stole that code or we don't need empty baggies of unreleased baggie games... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcade124 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 There what is? Your continued lack of reading comprehension? Fine, I'll do all the work for you... Oh I wouldn't purchase anything directly from this person. I have no desire to buy stolen work. Be assured that I do not support any use of your work without your permission and that I have no intention of buying anything involving stolen or uncredited programming. Even if the error was in good faith, I cannot buy your game in good conscience if it uses unauthorized code from another programmer. I have ZERO intention of paying $200 for any new homebrew and I get to express that by voting 'NO' with my wallet closed. But there is NO WAY that I, nor most of us here, will ever buy this game if the ROM and source are not posted here or somewhere were artrag can inspect it. The packaging is amazing but I'll wait for Deep Zone to come out. I'd rather support artrag's game anyway. ...but I have to side with m-crew here. There's been so many shenanigans involved with this that I simply can't trust that what I'd be buying is really free of all unauthorized code. Gyruss is a problem and unacceptable... I will be buying the original game artrag programmed when it comes out. ...if they followed artrag's requirements to produce the full code here on AtariAge for him to inspect as proof they had removed all of the code they took from his program. They failed and so Gyruss is dead to me. I will be purchasing Deep Zone when it comes out and supporting artrag's original work. Does that about sum it up for ya? 10 examples across 9 posts going back over 6 months, each with the link since you didn't care to bother reading what was actually said vs. making up BS. The next time you want to twist someone's statements at least give them the courtesy of using their actual words, you abject rookie. I've read everything that's been said on here. You've said that Gyruss is a problem, however it's not just one issue, it's yet another shady deal that's occurred here. It does represent if not the community, than at least where the community's heading. That is what you fail to acknowledge. Also, I'd prefer if we at least didn't sink low enough to resort to name calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arcade124 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 many of us played through the first crash, and we still play on the same console today, so if there is another crash then we will still be playing on the same console. If there is another crash, it will not affect me in the least. I will continue to play, and I will continue to go to PRGE, and I will still buy games that interest me. Well, that's just it: while there will obviously be nothing stopping you from continuing to play, INTV support at PRGE will become very low as homebrewers halt production due to these scams. If those games that interest you are homebrews, same thing, few to none will be released after the crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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