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12 hours ago, xxl said:

Because I feel so comfortable

 

7 hours ago, Stephen said:

Finally admitted your being an asshole by deliberately crippling software.  That wasn't so hard now, was it.

 

I think there's a bit of a language misunderstanding here. I believe what he's saying is that using the memory locations he's using is "comfortable" for him because he's been using them in that way for some time (habit). So, he just doesn't feel that he should change his normal programming style to suit a particular piece of hardware.

 

Note: I'm not making a judgement here, one way or the other; but rather that your response was in misunderstanding his statement. I'll admit that I wasn't sure exactly what he meant by the statement at first either; but it seems fairly clear now.

 

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3 hours ago, xxl said:

!!!

 

Gravity Worms winns the Atari Homebrew Awards 2019

 

 

THANKS 🙂

 

Congratulations! I sent you a congrats message live in the video of the awards too.

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110940025_2019AtariHomebrewAwardsLaurel-Winner-BestHomebrewAtari8bit5200.thumb.png.96172a9a93b8596d00b4870e182c4773.png

 

2019 ATARI HOMEBREW AWARDS RESULTS

 

Thank you everyone for an amazing event today. Congratulations to all the nominees and the winners! You can watch the replay on Twitch or when it's posted on YouTube tomorrow!

 

Atari 2600: Best Homebrew ≤4K
1) Amoeba Jump by Dion Olsthoorn "Dionoid"
2) Space Game 2KB by Karl Garrison "Karl G"
3) Caverns by Harold Thijssen

 

Atari 7800: Best Homebrew
1) Rikki & Vikki by PenguiNet "TailChao"
2) Baby Pac-Man by Bob DeCrecenzo "PacManPlus"
3) Draker Quest II by Clark Otto "frankodragon"

 

Atari 2600: Best Packaging
1) Rally Racer by More Work Games
2) Galagon (Galaga) by Champ Games (packaging by Dave Dries)
3) Wizard of Wor Arcade by Champ Games (packaging by Dave Dries)

 

Atari 2600: Best WIP
1) Zoo Keeper by Champ Games
2) Ninjish Guy in Low Res World by Vladimir Zuñiga (aka John Von Neumann) "vhzc"
3) Penult by Karl Garrison "Karl G"

 

Atari 8-Bit/5200: Best Homebrew
1) Gravity Worms - Krzysztof "xxl" Dudek, Jakub "Aceman" Szeląg, Kamil "Vidol" Walaszek
2) Jet Set Willy 2019 - Terence "Tezz" Derby (original game by Matthew Smith)
2) Wasteland - Michael Jaskula

 

Atari 2600: Best Music & Sound
1) Wizard of Wor Arcade by Champ Games (sound by Mike Haas with Ross Keenum)
2) Galagon (Galaga) by Champ Games (sound and music by Ross Keenum)
3) Aardvark by Oscar Toledo Gutiérrez "nanochess" and Thomas Jentzsch (design and coding), Nathan Strum (graphics and packaging)

 

Atari 2600: Best Graphics
1) Aardvark by Oscar Toledo Gutiérrez "nanochess" and Thomas Jentzsch (design and coding), Nathan Strum (graphics and packaging)
2) Galagon (Galaga) by Champ Games (graphics by Nathan Strum)
3) Wizard of Wor Arcade by Champ Games (graphics by Nathan Strum)

 

Atari 2600: Lifetime Achievement Award
Albert Yarusso

 

Atari 2600: Best Homebrew
1) Galagon (Galaga) by Champ Games
2) Aardvark by Oscar Toledo Gutiérrez "nanochess" and Thomas Jentzsch (design and coding), Nathan Strum (graphics and packaging)
3) Wizard of Wor Arcade by Champ Games

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Well, no congratulations for me. Hindering distribution of version fixed by other is class one dick move in my book. That's genuine effort so the game does not run on U1MB.

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LOL

 

The game works fine and is a fine peace of art (except the gen2 bass in the title ;)  ) .  

 

But what causes screams of laughter is the fact that it has become 2nd place in the KAZ KOMPO , and 1st in the homebrew Awards. 

Not that the game is bad, it shows just two moving objects , and they move in character resolution . 

This is still not the laughter part. 

If I'm explaining that several games with much more moving objects on the screen only will be doable, if character movement is used.

The Jesters claim "emkay is some dumb idiot . Character movement is not good for games... " 

But the game won 2 awards. ...

 

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1 hour ago, R0ger said:

Well, no congratulations for me. Hindering distribution of version fixed by other is class one dick move in my book. That's genuine effort so the game does not run on U1MB.

I had nothing against providing a modified version until I received a ton of emails, why it doesn't work on the Atari 65XE 800XL and later in the retro live games program I saw that they started the game modified on the standard configuration and the game crashed. As I politely asked for this garbage to be removed, there was a commotion that I did not have the right to do so.
Well, I have the right, the game was published on SV2019 (it took first place in the games competition there) on a freeware basis, which guarantees that it will not be modified.
The five people who think they deserve something ... no.

you really want to play? fix your computer.

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29 minutes ago, emkay said:

LOL

 

The game works fine and is a fine peace of art (except the gen2 bass in the title ;)  ) .  

 

But what causes screams of laughter is the fact that it has become 2nd place in the KAZ KOMPO , and 1st in the homebrew Awards. 

Not that the game is bad, it shows just two moving objects , and they move in character resolution . 

This is still not the laughter part. 

If I'm explaining that several games with much more moving objects on the screen only will be doable, if character movement is used.

The Jesters claim "emkay is some dumb idiot . Character movement is not good for games... " 

But the game won 2 awards. ...

 

 

Do you know what the problem with today's internet behavior is (on FaceBook, Twitter, but also here on AtariAge). That people want to be right, and they seem not to shun any means of being 'right'. For most people only one opinion counts and that is their own opinion. I am probably too sensitive for this, but I must say I dislike it. And worst of all, I have seen myself doing it too. Sometimes in the heat of the discussion, people say or do things they regret later. I wouldn't dare to call you or anyone else 'dumb', but sometimes people are so stubborn that it is hard talking with them, or exchanging thoughts.

 

I keep telling myself: Marius, don't fall for it... It's hard, but a well meant and good advice. 

Why argue about the opinion 'Character movement is not good for games...'? If you think it is: make a game and use that technique. 

 

Like I wrote: I am probably too sensitive. But all those arguments here on AA, throw some kind of shadow on the a8 fun. On the other side, I could decide to stay away from AA, but I love atari 8bit, and this place is still the best meeting point for other atari 8bit enthusiasts. I am surprised though that people who are into these fine 8bit computers, are sometimes arguing so much. 

 

I know I am not a coder, although I can write some code in Synassembler or Mac/65 that works. I once wrote and published a little tool that understood 'arguments' written on the command line in SpartaDos. Obviously I did not follow ANY rule, and made something that used the key-buffer (or something like that, I can not even remember). But since I did it not following the rules, my production got bashed, which scared me of so I decided not to code anymore for months. People sometimes seem to forget this is a hobby. Nothing more, nothing less. When I write something, there is still a rather big chance that it won't run on certain setups, simply because of the fact I am not good at coding... when it works on my system it is good enough for me. 

 

The only thing I do not understand is why XXL does not want to help the people with U1MB. Like I wrote earlier, I can not believe releasing a game is a way to show the community that there is a 'flaw' in U1MB (which is not a flaw, candle explained why). Why not release a game that works on U1MB, or let other people change it?  Edit: XXL just wrote an explanation when I was typing this.


 

Edited by Marius
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6 minutes ago, xxl said:

I had nothing against providing a modified version until I received a ton of emails, why it doesn't work on the Atari 65XE 800XL and later in the retro live games program I saw that they started the game modified on the standard configuration and the game crashed. As I politely asked for this garbage to be removed, there was a commotion that I did not have the right to do so.
Well, I have the right, the game was published on SV2019 (it took first place in the games competition there) on a freeware basis, which guarantees that it will not be modified.
The five people who think they deserve something ... no.

you really want to play? fix your computer.

 

I can follow you here. Thanks for the explanation. 

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11 hours ago, MrFish said:

I believe what he's saying is that using the memory locations he's using is "comfortable" for him because he's been using them in that way for some time (habit). So, he just doesn't feel that he should change his normal programming style to suit a particular piece of hardware.

It would be interesting to know the pragmatic reasoning for using anything but the base PIA addresses. Perhaps he has a look-up table which indexes the LSBs of all PIA references or some other ingenious space-saving methods... or perhaps not, given that the version with the higher addresses patched out still runs. :) Or perhaps the habits are borne of the same rationale which advocates the use of undocumented OS entry points for graphics operations, or the use of undocumented opcodes as an optimisation to every code snippet posted to the forums.

 

On the subject of undocumented opcodes: I noticed the developer advocating use of the Antonia upgrade 'since it has no bugs'. This is odd, since I remembered Antonia having a 65C816 CPU, on which any software using undocumented Sally opcodes which nevertheless runs perfectly well on a stock machine will suffer a hard crash. I'm therefore assuming that the software currently under discussion includes no undocumented instructions. Unless I misread the situation, this seems like selective bias towards one upgrade over another. Or perhaps I am wrong and the game employs the beloved illegal opcodes and crashes on Antonia computers.

 

In any case: as I have said - he should do what he likes. Disregard the fact that other developers take pains to contrive their own software to maximise compatibility. One look at the source code of - for example - Altirra OS will show numerous chunks of code expressly designed to account for the peculiarities of popular software which does something 'not by the book'. XEX loaders, device firmware, etc, all have to make similar concessions. This is done because it presents the path of least resistance towards ensuring everything works. It would be far more difficult to patch every copy of the offending thirty year old game or application than it is to patch the host firmware during the design phase. Likewise, regardless of whether one considers the behaviour of the U1MB's PIA shadowing proper or not, when developing new software in 2020, it seems to be far easier to avoid arbitrary obfuscation for which no convincing rationale has yet been provided than it would be to patch every U1MB in the world some ten years after the fact.

 

So: I am not convinced that this a matter of programming style, unless it's evidence of an arbitrary stylistic contempt for device A over device B.

 

Note that I'm not necessarily taking issue with your reading of the statement here - just addressing the inference of one possible reading. To me, the statement seems to mean 'I am comfortable because I have right on my side'; the assertion that U1MB owners all have broken computers seems to support this reading.

 

EDIT: It appears XXL has a version of Antonia with a 6502 processor. :) He advocates testing of the configuration register at $D1F7 in order to establish which CPU is present. Hopefully Antonia has only read-only registers... otherwise, imagine the consequences if software wrote to $D1xx expecting nothing to happen.

 

EDIT2: Looks like his Antonia supports MAPRAM as well, configured via writes to the config register. Is this standard, stock operation? I wonder how it could be exploited by bad habits?

 

 

Edited by flashjazzcat
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XXL has no Antonia but other, unique expansion, based on the Antonia PCB, but with 6502 CPU and different CPLD core. There is no "Antonia without 65816". 

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59 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

It would be interesting

Bounty Bob, a commercial production released on Cart, also uses PIA repeating registers ... and life goes on...

 

I see the quality of the community gathered around u1mb and I do not want to participate in it. Will you respect it?

 

you touch so many aspects of my coding ... unpublished codes, repetitive registers, references to OS etc. I start to worry why you are so interested in my habits ... I'm straight.

 

59 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

He advocates testing of the configuration register at $D1F7 in order to establish which CPU is present

not true. You are lying.

 

Edited by xxl

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What worries me here is that someone released a game, and then some members of the community thought it was acceptable to break the rights of the programmer.

 

Why would anyone develop new games for a community that shows no respect for the hard work put in by the developer?

 

I understand there are other issues here, but at the end of the day you either use the software within the limts of the license given to you or you don't use the software.

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39 minutes ago, xxl said:

I see the quality of the community gathered around u1mb and I do not want to participate in it. Will you respect it?

I can't really respect anyone who phrases the question in that way, but at least your motivation is finally clear from the horse's mouth. Thanks!

39 minutes ago, xxl said:

you touch so many aspects of my coding ... unpublished codes, repetitive registers, references to OS etc. I start to worry why you are so interested in my habits ... I'm straight.

And with that kind of moronic comment, the discussion falls apart.

40 minutes ago, xxl said:

You are lying.

If following a link is too hard, here's a picture:

Capture.thumb.PNG.b7c3023148bbb4e16a02077fd88f3a3e.PNG

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13 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said:

If following a link is too hard, here's a picture

you do not understand how this register works - you cannot tell what processor is on board. this bit is responsible for enabling / disabling linear memory and its state does not matter for 6502.
you interpret wrong perhaps by agitation, try to calm down.

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I don't even have U1MB. I don't really care. And I defended XXL before.

1) he has all the rights to make the game any way he likes

2) he has all the rights to demand removal of modified versions

 

But you can't say anymore he isn't doing it on purpose. If he wasn't, he would actually support other people fixing it (as if he couldn't fix it himself, after learning the cause). He won't fix it, and he is preventing others from fixing it. That I can't defend. That's just stupid.

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5 hours ago, Marius said:

 

Do you know what the problem with today's internet behavior is (on FaceBook, Twitter, but also here on AtariAge). That people want to be right, and they seem not to shun any means of being 'right'. For most people only one opinion counts and that is their own opinion. I am probably too sensitive for this, but I must say I dislike it. And worst of all, I have seen myself doing it too. Sometimes in the heat of the discussion, people say or do things they regret later. I wouldn't dare to call you or anyone else 'dumb', but sometimes people are so stubborn that it is hard talking with them, or exchanging thoughts.

 

There are a lot of them here in the forums for sure. They don't accept what I'm writing, because they are right.

But this is not a problem of today. It happens everywhere , where people miss some knowledge.

Particular technical stuff needs deeper knowledge. People who don't have that, would even force physical rules to be changed by  a referendum. And, as long as you have the supporters in the background, it might quite look to be a solution available.

Politicians save their income, Atari coders waste their time.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Marius said:

 

I keep telling myself: Marius, don't fall for it... It's hard, but a well meant and good advice. 

Why argue about the opinion 'Character movement is not good for games...'? If you think it is: make a game and use that technique. 

 

So you think I am god ? Interesting. I can be everywhere , I can do everything at the same time ? So no Problem for one who has 28h a day things to do , to write games inbetween.

 

5 hours ago, Marius said:

Like I wrote: I am probably too sensitive. But all those arguments here on AA, throw some kind of shadow on the a8 fun. On the other side, I could decide to stay away from AA, but I love atari 8bit, and this place is still the best meeting point for other atari 8bit enthusiasts. I am surprised though that people who are into these fine 8bit computers, are sometimes arguing so much. 

 

They mostly don't do the Projects for the "beloved Atari" they do it for their beloved self.

As long a Coder do that for their own fun, why not?

But, if Jesters claim the Atari could do this or that, while they even never did read a book about it, getting some coder , who has the available time to do games on the Atari is listening to them , and ends up rather quick in a dead end.

 

What is so hard to understand there? Helping people (interested coders) doing really possible stuff and for them to get quick results (asap) ?

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, R0ger said:

But you can't say anymore he isn't doing it on purpose. If he wasn't, he would actually support other people fixing it (as if he couldn't fix it himself, after learning the cause). He won't fix it, and he is preventing others from fixing it. That I can't defend. That's just stupid.

You haven't read it. Right? then again:

5 hours ago, xxl said:

I had nothing against providing a modified version until I received a ton of emails, why it doesn't work on the Atari 65XE 800XL and later in the retro live games program I saw that they started the game modified on the standard configuration and the game crashed. As I politely asked for this garbage to be removed, there was a commotion that I did not have the right to do so.
Well, I have the right, the game was published on SV2019 (it took first place in the games competition there) on a freeware basis, which guarantees that it will not be modified.
The five people who think they deserve something ... no.

you really want to play? fix your computer.

 

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18 minutes ago, xxl said:

You haven't read it. Right? then again:

 

Yes, I did read it. Again, ton's of 'my rights', and 'I had nothing against it until I did'. The result: there is no fixed version.

 

You simply don't want the game to run on U1MB.

 

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2 hours ago, emkay said:

So you think I am god ? Interesting. I can be everywhere , I can do everything at the same time ? So no Problem for one who has 28h a day things to do , to write games inbetween.

 

 

It seems that you did not understand what I meant. I meant: that people are free to do. So if you state something, and someone else thinks different, you are still free to write the game with techniques YOU want to use. That was what I meant. I did not say that you should write your own game, at least that was not what I meant. 

 

I agree with you that one of the main goals of a forum is exchanging knowledge and talk about (atari) matters. And yes, when you have knowledge to share, please do. But people are still free to follow advice or not. And people should not talk about other's in terms of 'dumb' or whatever. On the other side: people also should accept it when someone does not follow one's advice. 

 

It is quite basic communication... something that goes wrong many times (especially in written language, and many people here aren't native speakers ... which makes it even more difficult).

 

 

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3 hours ago, xxl said:

you touch so many aspects of my coding ... unpublished codes, repetitive registers, references to OS etc. I start to worry why you are so interested in my habits ... I'm straight.

 

I dislike this comment, especially the 'I'm straight'-line. What is the use of that? Does it matter whether one is straight or not? What's the use of adding this anyway? Keep the discussion healthy and do not get personal in such way. Thanks!
 

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21 minutes ago, Marius said:

 

It seems that you did not understand what I meant. I meant: that people are free to do. So if you state something, and someone else thinks different, you are still free to write the game with techniques YOU want to use. That was what I meant. I did not say that you should write your own game, at least that was not what I meant. 

 

I agree with you that one of the main goals of a forum is exchanging knowledge and talk about (atari) matters. And yes, when you have knowledge to share, please do. But people are still free to follow advice or not. And people should not talk about other's in terms of 'dumb' or whatever. On the other side: people also should accept it when someone does not follow one's advice. 

 

That is still missing the point.

Very often (depending on what often means in such hobby based forums) , people ask for what could be done.

You see rather quick people jumping in giving applause to everything. This is already misleading .

Then people really ask for information. I put some relevant stuff together, what do they add ? "Don't believe emkay, Atari is better than the C64 .... and so on.

Not going closer into that , just have a look at this thread:

 

 

 

 

Shanti 77 did some great part with Bosconian, but even there he started with a demo that he seems not able to keep.

The screen size is about 60% of the 1st impression. It is a very huge difference, if moving objects were a part of the background, or if the move freely.

 

I wonder what they expect.

Now imagine yourself a coder who had never seen the Atari before. Believing those people who claim the Atari could do this or that? At least, one has to write warning words. So later they cannot say they haven't been warned.

 

 

The part that makes me pissed is that there ARE CODERS that have TIME TO CODE for the ATARI, get that misleading. Accepting things from the beginning would enhance the appeareance of the final result for sure. 

Edited by emkay

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21 minutes ago, Marius said:

 

I dislike this comment, especially the 'I'm straight'-line. What is the use of that? Does it matter whether one is straight or not? What's the use of adding this anyway? Keep the discussion healthy and do not get personal in such way. Thanks!
 

Until your comment, I didn´t think of him saying "straight" means a sexual orientation. Which I do, when I read your comment.

 

For me it was clear, because of what was written before, that he meant: Straight forward. Just coding in a way, that his stuff runs on a stock Atari 8 Bit machine. And there´s nothing wrong with that, isn´t it?

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8 minutes ago, skr said:

Until your comment, I didn´t think of him saying "straight" means a sexual orientation. Which I do, when I read your comment.

 

For me it was clear, because of what was written before, that he meant: Straight forward. Just coding in a way, that his stuff runs on a stock Atari 8 Bit machine. And there´s nothing wrong with that, isn´t it?

 

Indeed. I think that is exact the problem with written language. 

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Indeed. I think that is exact the problem with written language. 

I took the I’m straight comment the same way as Marius, and agree it is unwelcome and necessary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, Marius said:

 

I dislike this comment, especially the 'I'm straight'-line. What is the use of that? Does it matter whether one is straight or not? What's the use of adding this anyway? Keep the discussion healthy and do not get personal in such way. Thanks!
 

The answer of flashjazzcat made possibly unclear words clear ;)

 

 

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