Jess Ragan Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 It just aggravates me, knowing there was a television standard that supported RGB in other territories but not this one. America really dropped the ball on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lingyi Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Bah! They can kiss my anal log hole. I remember fifteen years ago when someone (Dell? Compaq?) made a computer with almost no legacy ports... everything had been replaced with USB. It probably wouldn't be such a big deal now, but in 2003, it was infuriating. All of my TVs are roughly a decade old and have some form of analog ports. I think it's going to stay that way, too. Can you imagine some dink at a TV manufacturer telling his boss, "This model is going to have a lot fewer inputs than our older models! Customers will love the lack of features and versatility!" Sheesh. Engineer at Apple...Let's eliminate the earphone jack and charge more for the new iPhone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 It just aggravates me, knowing there was a television standard that supported RGB in other territories but not this one. America really dropped the ball on this one. I wonder how many systems back in the day you would have benefit from RGB capacity. If we look at consoles and computers with North American origin, I believe the list looks something like this: Tandy CoCo 3, Apple IIgs, Atari Jaguar, Atari ST/STE/Falcon, Commodore Amiga. All the PC compatibles with CGA, EGA, VGA tend to have custom monitors, same about Macintosh. Which other systems of this category did I miss? Sure, if you add import systems like e.g. Genesis, PlayStation and so on those also have RGB, but would television sets in America be configured for playing imported video games? European sets probably wouldn't have been as well if it wasn't for the French "inventing" the Peritel/SCART and in this respect being very much ahead of most others when it comes to demanding certain video signals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Sure, if you add import systems like e.g. Genesis, PlayStation and so on those also have RGB, but would television sets in America be configured for playing imported video games? European sets probably wouldn't have been as well if it wasn't for the French "inventing" the Peritel/SCART and in this respect being very much ahead of most others when it comes to demanding certain video signals. I'm not really sure why it matters if it's "imported" or not. In the USA, the "imported" products (when it came to consoles) were far more popular than the American-created ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) I'm thinking a little in terms of the chicken or the egg, or a form of catch 22 if you like. In order for TV sets to support something, that something must exist in some demand. Surely after a couple of years, say mid 90's, the American markets may have begun to incorporate e.g. SCART connectors on their TV sets even if they had been lagging behind a couple of years. It brings me to the point that the Japanese pinout of the 21-pin connector is different than the European one. Since Japan runs NTSC in some form (and yes, I know RGB has nothing to do with NTSC, only with the frequency of number of frames per second - 50 or 60), the question is if you would've had Japanese SCART in America rather than European SCART. I have never looked at the aftermarket in Japan, if they have plenty of video cables for the older systems fitting their TV sets. At least the market would have been both wider and at the same time more divided so when buying a RGB SCART cable, you would have had to make sure to get the right variety. Edited July 31, 2018 by carlsson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Cga, ega, vga are all rgb. Cga/ega are digital and vga is analog. My first vga monitor in 1989 could take 15khz vga/rgb. At one point vga was a common input on televisions. What's wrong with s-video and component (YPbPr). Component is not inferior to rgb similarly s-video for standard definition. Video quality is dependent on the source of the signal and quality of the display more than the signal type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) Probably nothing wrong with either video input, but if you've got a console that natively supports composite video or RGB, it will take more advanced designs than a mostly pin to pin cable with perhaps a couple resistors, diodes or capacitors to connect it. I believe that is what it boils down to: #1 got systems with RGB out, #2 is making and selling cables for those systems intended to be plugged into a TV with SCART, #1 wants the easiest, cheapest and/or best way to utilize a such cable from #2. If you got a VGA monitor that is capable of syncing to 15 kHz or even a Commodore 1084 that has DB9 input for analog/digital RGB, you need a SCART adapter that reroutes the signals accordingly. If your TV only can display S-video or component video in some form, you need an active converter to turn RGB into desired format which puts us very close to the Framemeister category after all. If you're very handy with a soldering iron, you might as well roll your own cables to your liking, but that is more an exception than the norm that people roll their own video cables. Edited July 31, 2018 by carlsson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 If you're very handy with a soldering iron, you might as well roll your own cables to your liking, but that is more an exception than the norm that people roll their own video cables. I was thinking of doing this for component. If your TV only can display S-video or component video in some form, you need an active converter to turn RGB into desired format which puts us very close to the Framemeister category after all. So you are saying the TV doesn't have the appropriate jack to take in the RGB signal correctly. You could always RGB mod the TV as a choice right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juansolo Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 If you're really bored, I did a blog thing on my site ages ago about this entire thing. As it's UK-centric it's particularly relevant when it comes to this discussion about the fun and games that is SCART and RGB... Anyhow, it's here if you feel the urge: http://juansolo.mooo.com/geekery/videowafflage1.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsson Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 @icemanxp300: I meant people like Jess Ragan, Punisher 5.0 and the others in America. But yes, if there are internal spots in the TV where it accepts RGB signals, I'm sure you can mod that particular TV. I have never looked into what it takes to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_me Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 ... So you are saying the TV doesn't have the appropriate jack to take in the RGB signal correctly. You could always RGB mod the TV as a choice right? Or you can use s-video output of the game system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 (edited) If you've got a nice analog CRT set with component inputs, I have no idea why you'd risk destroying it with a RGB mod, which I'm guessing entails tapping the OSD inputs into the jungle IC. This would be something to try on a composite only tube. Or if I guess that would somehow bypass an unwanted feature, like a comb filter or scan velocity modulation. I don't know why you wouldn't just go with a good RGB to component transcoder. These have been around forever coughJROKcough. CSY 2100 and clones. The latest iteration being HD retrovision cables. This is an analog to analog conversion, so no, this doesn't put you into Framemeister territory. The picture quality will be exactly the same as RGB, with the possibility of minor color value differences that could be tweaked at the transcoder pots (if it has them) or in the CRT service menu. Edited July 31, 2018 by keepdreamin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lingyi Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Posters are viewing this from a modern perspective where almost all displays are pixel perfect with high end displays giving deeper blacks and more accurate colors. In the 80's and early 90's, CRT quality varied greatly with high end sets (that would show the benefits of RGB) a rare and very expensive luxury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 If you've got a nice analog CRT set with component inputs, I have no idea why you'd risk destroying it with a RGB mod, which I'm guessing entails tapping the OSD inputs into the jungle IC. This would be something to try on a composite only tube. Or if I guess that would somehow bypass an unwanted feature, like a comb filter or scan velocity modulation. I don't know why you wouldn't just go with a good RGB to component transcoder. These have been around forever coughJROKcough. CSY 2100 and clones. The latest iteration being HD retrovision cables. This is an analog to analog conversion, so no, this doesn't put you into Framemeister territory. The picture quality will be exactly the same as RGB, with the possibility of minor color value differences that could be tweaked at the transcoder pots (if it has them) or in the CRT service menu. Price! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Price of what? RGB to component transcoders are $50 or less. You're telling me you'd rather risk toasting a CRT that you then have to transport out of your house put in your car, take to the dump, and then go get another one, transport again back into your house , then to just spend $50 on a transcoder? Not to mention messing around inside a tube TV is not a laughing matter. it isn't like doing a simple mod on an SNES, it's extremely dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 Price of what? RGB to component transcoders are $50 or less. RGB what? Scart? This is why I don't understand half of what you people talk about! The ones I was looking at were like $100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 RGB what? Scart? This is why I don't understand half of what you people talk about! The ones I was looking at were like $100. man .... https://www.amazon.com/SPECIALTY-AV-SCART-Component-Converter-Genesis/dp/B004XSSDPO/ you need audio breakout though but that little box takes Scart (minus audio) and generates YPbPr with no added lag and no change in frequency. I believe this can be used for the audio breakout part (ignore SVideo or Composite sockets): https://www.amazon.com/Switchable-Adapter-Socket-Female-S-Video/dp/B003NF5OJ6 EDIT: let us know how it works out ... I expect you to use it on that CRT you mention, if you end up using it on a digital HDTV may as well go RGB to HDMI https://www.amazon.com/VCANDO-Converter-Adapter-Switch-Scaler/dp/B01N06Q9WH because your TV may not like 240p on YpbPr and/or upconvert it thinking it's 480i and make a mess anyway. EDIT2: yes before you ask we keep on using RGB as a synonym of Scart and viceversa ... bear with us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Ragan Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Price of what? RGB to component transcoders are $50 or less. You're telling me you'd rather risk toasting a CRT that you then have to transport out of your house put in your car, take to the dump, and then go get another one, transport again back into your house , then to just spend $50 on a transcoder? Not to mention messing around inside a tube TV is not a laughing matter. it isn't like doing a simple mod on an SNES, it's extremely dangerous. https://www.wikihow.com/Discharge-a-CRT-Monitor Yeah, I wouldn't monkey around with that crap. Make one mistake and you're playing a harp. It's not guaranteed to kill you, but it runs a pretty good chance of it! It's one of those reasons I don't miss CRT as a standard. I opened a 42 inch LCD a couple years ago to install a new power board, and although it took a fair amount of work I didn't feel like I needed to write my last will and testament beforehand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 I can see why osgeld tapped out on that other thread. . All that stuff is on Google. GO READ. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Video Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 Not sure how much difference there is between composite and RGB, other than where they were available. When people say rgb they are talking about rgb, or composite hookups. Not that the signal is rgb, that's true from twin lead up to the newest HDMI standard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 Not sure how much difference there is between composite and RGB, other than where they were available. When people say rgb they are talking about rgb, or composite hookups. Not that the signal is rgb, that's true from twin lead up to the newest HDMI standard. Say what? And your nickname is "Video" ?!?!?! .... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 CRT TV's are free, if I toast it owell, I have 4 more and plenty I can get if needed. Plus I would rather invest my money into my time instead of other peoples expensive cables and converters. If RGB SCART is the best why would I want to pay for adapters to downgrade the signal? That makes zero sense to me. Furthermore I am confident I can work on a CRT safely. Just as I can safely wire a 110 or 220 line into a breaker box. If you are scared don't do it, but don't bash on others who are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepdreamin Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 You can't be bothered to figure out analog video terminology, but you're capable of figuring out the inner workings of a CRT to mod in a RGB SCART connection? Riiiight. HD retrovision cables take RGB and turn it into component. They also sell out everytime they get stock in. But this makes zero sense. Got it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenixdownita Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 CRT TV's are free, if I toast it owell, I have 4 more and plenty I can get if needed. Plus I would rather invest my money into my time instead of other peoples expensive cables and converters. If RGB SCART is the best why would I want to pay for adapters to downgrade the signal? That makes zero sense to me. Furthermore I am confident I can work on a CRT safely. Just as I can safely wire a 110 or 220 line into a breaker box. If you are scared don't do it, but don't bash on others who are not. In that case it seems there's a list of CRT here: https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56155 Looking forward to you telling us how it all went. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icemanxp300 Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 You can't be bothered to figure out analog video terminology, but you're capable of figuring out the inner workings of a CRT to mod in a RGB SCART connection? Riiiight. HD retrovision cables take RGB and turn it into component. They also sell out everytime they get stock in. But this makes zero sense. Got it. First off I am NOW taking the time to learn it. Before the last thread I had zero interest in it so I never bothered to understand it. Now I do. Why do you keep saying the same shit over and over. Yeah I know retrovision cables take RGB from the console and put it to component. I AM NOT BUYING THOSE CABLES. Does that make sense? Before I drop $70+ EACH on those component cables I would buy $6-$10 RBG SCART cables and use a Scart to component converter. However before I buy a scart to component converter I would rather just RGB Scart mod the TV. Can you comprehend that yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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