smbaker Posted November 11, 2018 Author Share Posted November 11, 2018 Offscale high readings on both axes. Okay, that's as it should be. Still thinking about this, but as of yet no good ideas... Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_q_atari Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 if you plug the masterplay clone into port 2 or 3 do you still get the low/mid 40s numbers? If so its the masterplay clone/cable combo. If not its your 5200 port 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 if you plug the masterplay clone into port 2 or 3 do you still get the low/mid 40s numbers? If so its the masterplay clone/cable combo. If not its your 5200 port 1. Yeah, I get the same numbers with either board I built, using either cable, in any of the four ports. The same cables work fine with the thumbstick controllers I built in any port. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_q_atari Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Then it must be a problem with the components. I don't suppose you have an LCR meter to check your components? If the value displayed by the test cart is off it must be the values of either R or C in the circuit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Then it must be a problem with the components. I don't suppose you have an LCR meter to check your components? If the value displayed by the test cart is off it must be the values of either R or C in the circuit. Well, I measured the capacitance of the one cap used in the build (for each board), and I measured each resistor as I pulled it off the tape to set aside to build each board. I'm not a COMPLETE idiot, here - I did build a working 1088XEL computer from a bare board and components, after all. I sure wish some others would build their boards and post pics/results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayik Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Well, I measured the capacitance of the one cap used in the build (for each board), and I measured each resistor as I pulled it off the tape to set aside to build each board. I'm not a COMPLETE idiot, here - I did build a working 1088XEL computer from a bare board and components, after all. I sure wish some others would build their boards and post pics/results. Got parts in yesterday. Will try to build this week and I'll test after that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_q_atari Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Well, I measured the capacitance of the one cap used in the build (for each board), and I measured each resistor as I pulled it off the tape to set aside to build each board. I'm not a COMPLETE idiot, here - I did build a working 1088XEL computer from a bare board and components, after all. I sure wish some others would build their boards and post pics/results. I didn't mean to imply you were anything less than fully capable. I built 1 of the boards a week ago (minus the keypad) and it worked fine with the test cartridge. Values were centered near 110 for both horizontal and vertical and changes values appropriately up and down left and right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 I didn't mean to imply you were anything less than fully capable. I built 1 of the boards a week ago (minus the keypad) and it worked fine with the test cartridge. Values were centered near 110 for both horizontal and vertical and changes values appropriately up and down left and right. I wonder if I got a bad batch of IC’s? I installed sockets; I might look up the pinouts and then jumper the connections that simulate centered sticks and see what readings I get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smbaker Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 I wonder if I got a bad batch of IC’s? I installed sockets; I might look up the pinouts and then jumper the connections that simulate centered sticks and see what readings I get. Multiple bad ICs from digikey would surprise me, especially considering that I ordered the same part number myself. That the same board seemed to work fine in another 5200 suggests to me that it's some as yet not understood compatibility issue between the 5200 you're currently working with and the circuit. I just can't imagine what it is. We checked obvious things like voltage. Absent an oscilloscope, it's hard to think of what else we could check. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swami Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 I wonder if I got a bad batch of IC’s? I installed sockets; I might look up the pinouts and then jumper the connections that simulate centered sticks and see what readings I get. Multiple bad ICs from digikey would surprise me, especially considering that I ordered the same part number myself. That the same board seemed to work fine in another 5200 suggests to me that it's some as yet not understood compatibility issue between the 5200 you're currently working with and the circuit. I just can't imagine what it is. We checked obvious things like voltage. Absent an oscilloscope, it's hard to think of what else we could check. Scott That is the most puzzling part. If the current 5200 works with analog controllers, but not the D-A chip in the masterplay clone, but the other 5200 works with both, it sounds like the 5200 is haunted. Edit: I'd like to know what your other 5200 shows with the Masterplay clone and the Pete's test cart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 (edited) Multiple bad ICs from digikey would surprise me, especially considering that I ordered the same part number myself. That the same board seemed to work fine in another 5200 suggests to me that it's some as yet not understood compatibility issue between the 5200 you're currently working with and the circuit. I just can't imagine what it is. We checked obvious things like voltage. Absent an oscilloscope, it's hard to think of what else we could check. Scott Well, yeah. I have a (cheap) 20 Mhz USB-based scope that might help figure out what's up. That is the most puzzling part. If the current 5200 works with analog controllers, but not the D-A chip in the masterplay clone, but the other 5200 works with both, it sounds like the 5200 is haunted. Edit: I'd like to know what your other 5200 shows with the Masterplay clone and the Pete's test cart. My other 5200 is currently down, for some unknown reason. These threads run together, so I don't fault anyone for not keeping up, but that unit was in storage for a reason - it was glitching out and becoming unusable after about 10 minutes. I tried swapping some likely suspects (GTIA and CPU), but neither made a difference. I then re-seated all the socketed chips on the board and now with the original chips it simply won't boot at all. It does still power up (red LED lights when the switch is cycled), but I haven't don't more than confirm ~12V on one side of each voltage regulator and 5V on the other. I've taken neither logic probe nor scope to the board. Edited November 12, 2018 by DrVenkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayik Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 Finally got around to making these. On one I inadvertently soldered the 9 pin connector to the wrong side of the pcb. Rather than remove it, I just put both on that side. I like the other one better with the connectors on the bottom of the pcb. (One is missing two red buttons. I have them on backorder rather than use white or black buttons) I'm going to mount them on laser cut acrylic with standoffs. I'll post pics when that is eventually done. Looking forward to trying them out this weekend. I'll use the test cart rom and post resistance values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smbaker Posted November 16, 2018 Author Share Posted November 16, 2018 If you solder the connector on the wrong side of the board, you'll actually reverse the numbering of pins in each row of the connector. For example the rightmost pin on the 9-pin connector if flipped over becomes the leftmost pin. This almost certainly won't work right, and in the worst case could damage something. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_q_atari Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 rayik, Whatever you do, don't solder those support posts on those connectors. There is still hope otherwise if you can remove all of the solder on the pins and extract the connectors from the board. It's going to be tough though. I wish you luck. I never had much luck when it came to desoldering things. Maybe you can use hot air if you have trouble desoldering the connectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayik Posted November 16, 2018 Share Posted November 16, 2018 rayik, Whatever you do, don't solder those support posts on those connectors. There is still hope otherwise if you can remove all of the solder on the pins and extract the connectors from the board. It's going to be tough though. I wish you luck. I never had much luck when it came to desoldering things. Maybe you can use hot air if you have trouble desoldering the connectors. I did not solder the support posts, only the pins. I'm not worried about desoldering. I've got a Hakko FR-301 which will make easy work of it. Scott - thank you. Its obvious it will not work and I should have realized that right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 I did not solder the support posts, only the pins. I'm not worried about desoldering. I've got a Hakko FR-301 which will make easy work of it. Scott - thank you. Its obvious it will not work and I should have realized that right away. I have the same Hakko - it's great! Just beware these are some tiny vias. Make sure to wet the nozzle of the Hakko with a bit of fresh solder and don't heat for more than a second or two at most or the pad will likely lift. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayik Posted November 17, 2018 Share Posted November 17, 2018 Took about 2 minutes to remove both using the Hakko FR-301. It's good to have the right tools. Will try to find time this weekend to test these out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayik Posted November 18, 2018 Share Posted November 18, 2018 I tried them out and neither one works for me. Both jumpers at JP1 are jumped. Buttons (keypad / start / pause / reset) work fine. Using Atarimax SD cart there is a continious clicking sound as if the joystick is pressed in one direction. Using real cart, the joystick is stuck with left activated. Its the same on both adapters I made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smbaker Posted November 19, 2018 Author Share Posted November 19, 2018 I tried them out and neither one works for me. Both jumpers at JP1 are jumped. Buttons (keypad / start / pause / reset) work fine. Using Atarimax SD cart there is a continious clicking sound as if the joystick is pressed in one direction. Using real cart, the joystick is stuck with left activated. Its the same on both adapters I made. Grr.... This thing seems to be causing more problems for folks than one would expect. Can you use Pete's Test Cartridge to verify the values when the joystick isn't pressed? Also, to verify, you have adjusted the two pots for centering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayik Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 smbaker: I load Pete's test cartridge through an Atarimax SD cart. Since the joystick is stuck left I can not select any cartridge to load. If anyone wants to loan me a repro Pete's test cart I'll use it to troubleshoot and return when done. I'll double check that I used right resister values on PCB. I have a multimeter and can check resistance. What values should I see and where? Would that be with PCB energized? What values should I set trim pots to? I appreciate your designing this and making PCBs available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smbaker Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 From my notes earlier, with the power off and the IC removed, using the two-pin pads adjacent to each pot, I measured 265K on the top one and 263K on the bottom one (the difference between 265K and 263K is probably not significant). So I would start by verifying your pots are in the ballpark of those values. If that still doesn't get performance within reasonable limits, can you use a traditional controller on port 1 of the 5200, and the masterplay clone on port 2, to navigate into Pete's test cartridge? I don't have an atarimax, so I'm not entirely sure how the menu system works. Scott 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_q_atari Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I haven't used the atarimax a lot, but it seems to me the controls when in the atarimax menu rom selection menu are very twitchy and possibly overly sensitive to the "analog" directional inputs and my 5200 seems to have reasonably well calibrated controller input ports. Personally I don't put much stock in it. I go directly to Pete's test cartridge (even if I have to temporarily have to plug in a stock controller) or go to some other game cartridge to see how the joysticks behave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayik Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I'm going to smbaker's suggestion of plugging stock control in port 1 and ps2 adapter in port 2. I was getting the same stuck left on regular carts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayik Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Mounted the boards on laser cut acrylic with rubber feet on the bottom. I really like how they came out @smbaker, john_q_atari and DrVenkman - I have extra cut acrylics. PM me if you want me to send you 1 or 2 at no cost to you (I'll pay postage) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 Mounted the boards on laser cut acrylic with rubber feet on the bottom. I really like how they came out @smbaker, john_q_atari and DrVenkman - I have extra cut acrylics. PM me if you want me to send you 1 or 2 at no cost to you (I'll pay postage) That's incredibly generous of you, thanks! I'll message you in a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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