bfollowell Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I've ran into some game images that I can't run on my real 800XL using my AtariMax SIO2PC-USB. One example is Star Raiders II xex files using the AtariMax Loader. I've checked all the big file repositories, at least 15 different versions (or at least different filenames), and I can't find one that will work. I'm sure I'll eventually be able to come up with an ATR that will work, but I'm wanting to run many of the original ROM images I have. Would those work better from one of the AtariMax cartridge-based products? I guess what I'm asking is, do they just allow you to have access to hundreds of files, or do they actually emulate an Atari cartridge? If they emulate an Atari cartridge, which product would I need? I see Steve has several cartridge-based products available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Straight up 8K cartridges are the only ones that run fully from the flash ROM, though that's probably half or more of all cart games ever made. Straight non-banked 16K will generally be loaded into Ram. Banked carts such as many XEGS titles won't work with the legacy AtariMax flashcarts - there are modern cartridge solutions that are able to emulate most/all cartridge formats though. Star Raiders 2 - is this the long lost version or the Last Starfighter reassigned version? When there's issues with Xex not working it'll usually either be an OS compatibility issue or a loader problem, ie the file overwrites/corrupts the loader program or Dos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 (edited) This is the official Star Raiders II, as released, the Last Starfighter reassigned one. I see that I can change the memory location of the loader, in case it's an issue with the program overwriting part of the loader program. I've tried several locations, but haven't had any luck so far. Several of the xex files seem to want to start; the correct music starts playing, but the graphics are all corrupted. Some just have corrupted graphics scrolling all over the screen, with no sound, and lockup after a few seconds. What are some of the modern cartridge solutions you mentioned? I read of THE!CART somewhere. I believe it is from Germany. That sounds like the sort of product you may have been talking about. Thanks for your reply. Edited January 14, 2019 by bfollowell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 I tried a Star Raiders II xex by 'The Bit Cruncher' with the U1MB/SIDE XEX loader and it appears to run without issue. The SIDE loader's XEX loading module resides at $700-$AFF, so if problems exist with the AtariMax loader, it may be down to contention for the $400-$4FF area. Perhaps try relocating the loader to $700 if possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 I normally just put a dos disk with the exe already on it in an image slot and run them without an issue.. don't remember an issue with the loader, I will be interesting to see what happens.. sr ii the official disk that was sold after the retrofitted it from the last starfighter.... I understand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilheim Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I often use the Atarimax xex loader on address $700. That location had worked a lot of times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) I often use the Atarimax xex loader on address $700. That location had worked a lot of times. How can you change it to $700? Using the TAB in the loader, I get to choose between $0110, $0400, $0600 and $BF10. I know of no way to manually change it. I don't recall any issues with loading Star Raiders II .xex through Atarimax APEloader myself. I do know there are several demos that won't run right at any of the addresses Atarimax APEloader allows, but they will load with Aspqt if I run a .xex using the direct run option, but I don't know what address it loads them at. Maybe it's $700? (is this supposed to be $0700?) Edited January 18, 2019 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilheim Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 How can you change it to $700? Using the TAB in the loader, I get to choose between $0110, $0400, $0600 and $BF10. I know of no way to manually change it. I don't recall any issues with loading Star Raiders II .xex through Atarimax APEloader myself. I do know there are several demos that won't run right at any of the addresses Atarimax APEloader allows, but they will load with Aspqt if I run a .xex using the direct run option, but I don't know what address it loads them at. Maybe it's $700? (is this supposed to be $0700?) I make it with Maxflash Studio, double-clicking on the title and changing the EXE loader address from $100 to $700. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) I make it with Maxflash Studio, double-clicking on the title and changing the EXE loader address from $100 to $700. So you are referring to the Atarimax cartridge loader menu or Atarimax FAT32 loader then? I'm referring to the Atarimax APEloader that works with SIO2PC, not the Atarimax cartridge loader or FAT32 loaders. With Atarimax APE software on the PC, and mounting a mirror image with a directory D1:, you just turn on your Atari and the APEloader for .xex's comes up. That's what BFollowell was referring too in the first post as not loading Star Raiders II .xex for him, then he asks if the Atarimax cartridges (and the loader I think you are referring too made with Maxflash studio). The APEloader gives you the choices I mentioned above for the loading address with the TAB key, but I don't think there is a way to change them or select another, but it works with 95% of software with one of those load addresses. I guess the other 5% needs $0700. Edited January 18, 2019 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Since DOS usually lives at $700, it makes sense that placing the XEX loader there is liable to maximise compatibility. That's my experience, at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) It's been a busy work week and making it home late every night, working out, eating, then almost straight to bed doesn't leave a lot of time for updating. First of all, I was able to get the Bit Cruncher xex flashjazzcat mentioned to work with the APELoader, but it has Bit Cruncher's little flash screen at the beginning to boast of his accomplishments in cracking the game. Those were cool way back when I guess, but nowadays, I don't care for those. I like things to look and work like the originals were supposed to, but that's a pet peeve of mine. Still, for now I have a version that works and I can use it. As far as $0700 being a good location, yes, it's a shame that we can't move the APELoader to that spot in memory as it seems to work well for other loaders. Maybe that's something we should mention to Steve and he could possibly make a change in the future. I know he's always busy and, like most of the rest of us with families and real lives, covered up with things to do. Still, if we suggest it, maybe he could add it to his to do list. After researching a little earlier in the week, I think THE!CART or the Ultimate Cart (SD multicart) are the cartridge products that actually emulate the various different types of Atari cartridges. You guys can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Steve's AtariMax cartridge products work that way, or at least not to the same degree as these two products. At $100 a pop, I won't be getting both, so I really need to dig a little deeper and determine which is the most versatile and would be best for my needs. Edited January 18, 2019 by bfollowell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Can you upload the XEX version you mentioned in the original post? I would like to test that with the SIDE loader as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 Can you upload the XEX version you mentioned in the original post? I would like to test that with the SIDE loader as well. I don't know that I know for certain which version it was. However, most versions I tried failed to work until the Bit Cruncher version. There appeared to be three or four distinctly different versions though, as they behaved and failed differently. I'll look at them again this weekend and then upload two or three of them for you to check out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I'll look at them again this weekend and then upload two or three of them for you to check out. Thanks - I appreciate it. There'll obviously be stuff out there which obnoxiously insists on loading at $700, etc, but I'm keen to address any other compatibility issues which might be correctable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 OK, here's a zip file with the xex files I could find from https://wowroms.com/en/and http://www.atarionline.pl/. I left the filenames as they were. I've labelled them as such: A. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)B. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[a]C. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[a1]D. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[a2]E. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[a3]F. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[cr Bit Cruncher]G. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[cr Bit Cruncher][noATR]H. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[cr Flinx]I. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[cr Flinx][a] And here's is how they reacted on my U.S. 800XL using APE and the APELoader. A. Game starts to load. Acts just like H. below, except there is no pirate splash screen.B. Game starts to load. Corrupted graphics scroll through for about five seconds then music starts for a short bit. Can here game playing background, but no graphics.C. Game starts to load. Acts just like H. below, except there is no pirate splash screen.D. Appears to be a renamed copy of H. below.E. Pirate splash screen with instructions. Music starts after pressing Return, but can't see game. Graphics are corrupted.F. Works but has pirate splash screen.G. Stops at splash screen, game never starts.H. Splash screen loads, games tries to start, music starts but graphics are garbled & corrupted, computer locks up about two seconds later.I. Splash screen loads, screen blanks like it's going to start but game never starts, computer locks up at black screen. Star Raiders II.zip 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmp Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 I. has some extra bytes at the end of the file (lots of $1A) otherwise it's the same as H. those extra bytes can confuse some loaders (they confuse mine) but technically it's a broken XEX file G. also has some extra bytes at the end compared to F. so it could be also corrupted (altirra prints an error - ERROR: Invalid Atari executable: bad start/end range.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+CharlieChaplin Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Hmmm, - do you hold down the Option key during power-up to disable Basic ?!? - what OS do you have / use ?!? (eventually the OS has inverted Basic and therefore Option enables Basic and then the game crashes) (The file versions with redundant segments like 0000-0000 or 1A1A-1A1A mostly come from BBS programs, like Bobterm and others that add them for whatever reason, one can simply remove these segments!) Tested file A and it worked fine, the file is monolithic with just one data-segment $3F80-8E7F and one run adress RUN 4000. So there is nothing strange about this file, it should load from DOS (tested, works), Gamedos or Bootloader (also tested, works) without any problems. However, I do not own Atarimax SIO2PC USB, so it might be a problem of this hardware and/or its loader... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 OK, here's a zip file with the xex files I could find from https://wowroms.com/en/and http://www.atarionline.pl/. I left the filenames as they were. I've labelled them as such: A. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US) B. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[a] C. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[a1] D. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[a2] E. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[a3] F. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[cr Bit Cruncher] G. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[cr Bit Cruncher][noATR] H. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[cr Flinx] I. Star Raiders II (1987)(Atari)(US)[cr Flinx][a] Many thanks. I tested these with the pre-release SIDE loader (whose XEX loader is the same as the current release version apart from the fix for PANG.XEX) and they all work apart from (B) which hangs in an infinite loop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 Hmmm, - do you hold down the Option key during power-up to disable Basic ?!? - what OS do you have / use ?!? (eventually the OS has inverted Basic and therefore Option enables Basic and then the game crashes) (The file versions with redundant segments like 0000-0000 or 1A1A-1A1A mostly come from BBS programs, like Bobterm and others that add them for whatever reason, one can simply remove these segments!) Tested file A and it worked fine, the file is monolithic with just one data-segment $3F80-8E7F and one run adress RUN 4000. So there is nothing strange about this file, it should load from DOS (tested, works), Gamedos or Bootloader (also tested, works) without any problems. However, I do not own Atarimax SIO2PC USB, so it might be a problem of this hardware and/or its loader... Yes, I hold the Option key down to disable Basic when loading the APELoader. I have a vanilla U.S. NTSC 800XL with OS Rev. 2, which I believe is by far the most common XL OS for NTSC machines. And, like I said,. I've confirmed this file doesn't work on my system from the APELoader, but it may work just fine from a disk image or some other brand/type loader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunstar Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) Judging by the dates on those games, they are all derived from the XE cartridge version. Have you tried using an .xex made from the original disk version from '84/85? There must be a download of it somewhere. Why they went through all the trouble to crack and file the '87 cartridge version is beyond me...a lot more work is involved turning a rom into an executable than the original disk. Edited January 19, 2019 by Gunstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 Judging by the dates on those games, they are all derived from the XE cartridge version. Have you tried using an .xex made from the original disk version from '84/85? There must be a download of it somewhere. Why they went through all the trouble to crack and file the '87 cartridge version is beyond me...a lot more work is involved turning a rom into an executable than the original disk. I've just used the XEXs that I've found in the common file repositories that I'm aware of. I have no idea what the original source for these XEXs was. I'd certainly like to try one made from the original disk version, assuming I could locate one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bfollowell Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 Hmmm, - do you hold down the Option key during power-up to disable Basic ?!? - what OS do you have / use ?!? (eventually the OS has inverted Basic and therefore Option enables Basic and then the game crashes) (The file versions with redundant segments like 0000-0000 or 1A1A-1A1A mostly come from BBS programs, like Bobterm and others that add them for whatever reason, one can simply remove these segments!) Tested file A and it worked fine, the file is monolithic with just one data-segment $3F80-8E7F and one run adress RUN 4000. So there is nothing strange about this file, it should load from DOS (tested, works), Gamedos or Bootloader (also tested, works) without any problems. However, I do not own Atarimax SIO2PC USB, so it might be a problem of this hardware and/or its loader... I did put XEX file A onto an ATR image and it loads and runs just fine from my 800XL using the AtariMax SIO2PC-USB. It just appears to be an incompatibility with the AtariMax APELoader program or the locations it uses. I adjust the location to all that are available, but the result was always the same, so I guess it's the APELoader. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 (The file versions with redundant segments like 0000-0000 or 1A1A-1A1A mostly come from BBS programs, like Bobterm and others that add them for whatever reason, one can simply remove these segments!) The XMODEM file transfer protocol back in the day only supported transfer blocks of 128 bytes, and had no way of marking a file end less than 128 bytes, so there could be up to 127 bytes of unpredictable data at the end of the file. Would have been an issue for many terminal programs, not just BOBTerm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 The XMODEM file transfer protocol back in the day only supported transfer blocks of 128 bytes, and had no way of marking a file end less than 128 bytes, so there could be up to 127 bytes of unpredictable data at the end of the file. Would have been an issue for many terminal programs, not just BOBTerm. yes but that padding was supposed to be fixed/stripped in later xmodem versions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Like us on Facebook
Follow us on Twitter
AtariAge on Instagram
Watch us on YouTube
Chat on Discord
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.