rcork2 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 I have downloaded the AtariAge ROM package to use with my Flashback Portable. All games work perfectly except Pitfall 2...I just get a garbled screen. Can anyone help me with this? I desperately want to play this game. I can't find any answers elsewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blainelocklair Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 I can't say for sure about the Flashback Portable compatibility for the game. But the original 2600 cartridge had a custom-made "Display Processor Chip" by the game's programmer, David Crane, to allow the enhanced gameplay and sound. If the Flashback can't emulate it, that might be why the game ROM won't run on it. Hope this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcork2 Posted March 11, 2019 Author Share Posted March 11, 2019 Thanks for the info...that makes sense I suppose. I'm going to buy a flashback console to try. Maybe I'll have better luck with it than the portable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+bcombee Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 There are good compatibility lists for Flashback versions posted here on AtariAge. See http://atariage.com/forums/topic/258970-atari-flashback-portable-faq-and-compatibility-list/and http://atariage.com/forums/topic/285118-atari-flashback-9-compatibility-list/ for discussions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arenafoot Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 I have downloaded the AtariAge ROM package to use with my Flashback Portable. All games work perfectly except Pitfall 2...I just get a garbled screen. Can anyone help me with this? I desperately want to play this game. I can't find any answers elsewhere... You must have downloaded the ROM pack for the AFP. I didn't include Pitfall 2 in it as it does not work on the AFP. https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=EBF48A1964E7EEB5!232&authkey=!ABhS2GVDvcbh8Mc&ithint=file%2cxlsx And yes it's because of the DPC that it will not work on there - but I've included 1001 working ones in my ROM pack. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcork2 Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 There are good compatibility lists for Flashback versions posted here on AtariAge. See http://atariage.com/forums/topic/258970-atari-flashback-portable-faq-and-compatibility-list/and http://atariage.com/forums/topic/285118-atari-flashback-9-compatibility-list/ for discussions. Good stuff...thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcork2 Posted March 12, 2019 Author Share Posted March 12, 2019 You must have downloaded the ROM pack for the AFP. I didn't include Pitfall 2 in it as it does not work on the AFP. https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=EBF48A1964E7EEB5!232&authkey=!ABhS2GVDvcbh8Mc&ithint=file%2cxlsx And yes it's because of the DPC that it will not work on there - but I've included 1001 working ones in my ROM pack. Understood...thanks for clarifying! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madatariscientistjr Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 I don’t suppose one of the more enterprising Atari homebrew programmers can do some ingenious hacking, to somehow mod the game to use some vanilla graphics routines instead of relying on that custom Display Processor Chip? Being that it’s an emulator, maybe leverage extra memory or something? (I have no idea myself, just asking!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 14 hours ago, madatariscientistjr said: I don’t suppose one of the more enterprising Atari homebrew programmers can do some ingenious hacking, to somehow mod the game to use some vanilla graphics routines instead of relying on that custom Display Processor Chip? Being that it’s an emulator, maybe leverage extra memory or something? (I have no idea myself, just asking!) The DPC chip inside Pitfall II stands for David P. Crane, the game’s programmer and one of Activision’s founders. It’s responsible for the incredible in-game music, not the graphics. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 55 minutes ago, DrVenkman said: The DPC chip inside Pitfall II stands for David P. Crane, the game’s programmer and one of Activision’s founders. It’s responsible for the incredible in-game music, not the graphics. According to some analysis by batari, it reads and feeds graphics data to the 6502 too, similar to DPC+ without any custom C code. Without looking deeper, I don't think anyone will be able to strip DPC support out of the game and it remain intact. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madatariscientistjr Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, RevEng said: According to some analysis by batari, it reads and feeds graphics data to the 6502 too, similar to DPC+ without any custom C code. Without looking deeper, I don't think anyone will be able to strip DPC support out of the game and it remain intact. Maybe not strip it out, but inject in some kind of equivalent stand-in that accomplishes the same things the DPC did, but in code? Honestly I have no clue, but I’m sure where there’s a will there’s a way, for someone smart, obsessed enough, and with no life, lol! If anything, a Pitfall II remake that requires no special chip would be a cool homebrew project... Edited February 26, 2020 by madatariscientistjr turn on notification Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevEng Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 The thing is, Activision wouldn't have invested in custom silicon if the 6502 was capable of doing those same things without it. Those guys weren't chumps. The DPC chip allows you to basically trade-off non-kernel time, in exchange for much quicker kernel-time register updates than you could normally do with just the 6502. People have recreated the DPC music routines in 6502 software alone, but that was limited to things like demos and title screens due to the excessive demand on the CPU. Its a very safe bet that nobody is going to be able to pack in the DPC sound and graphics updates that Pitfall II is doing in a live game, without special hardware assist. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davyK Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Jeez - Pitall 2's music is an earache. I'd be happy without it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Karl G Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 Huh. Now I'm wondering both how good a Pitfall 2 recreation could be without the hardware assist, or one created with a modern ARM-driven approach. ? But I can't imagine getting the former to work via a hacked Pitfall 2 rom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madatariscientistjr Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Good answers everyone! It’s kind of cool how they (Activision & Mr. Crane) overcame the limitations of the machine by basically using the cartridge to upgrade the hardware. One wonders how far they could have taken that... For instance make the DPC part into a cart that plugs into the cartridge port, and then Pitfall II and other DPC games would plug into that. They coulda added all kinds of capabilities, coprocessors, memory, etc. But by separating out the DPC to be reusable for additional games they could have extended the life of the console (in a perfect world... but this is not a perfect world!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+splendidnut Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 I think a pretty decent version of Pitfall 2 could be made without the need of the DPC or ARM chips, especially after seeing a game like Aardvark released. Using TIATracker, a half-way decent version of the background music could be made. The display kernels would probably need quite a bit of work, but are essentially doable. ROM size would potentially increase due to that... 16k maybe. Whether someone would be willing to put the time in to essentially rewrite a game -- one that is already complete and in good shape -- from scratch is another story For me personally, as much as I enjoy the game and think it would be interesting to do, I don't think it's worth it to compensate for a system with poor emulation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madatariscientistjr Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Here’s a question... Doesn’t Stella support upto 32k ROMs? How about FB portable? If so, then that gives plenty of memory for a swanky library of routines that could be used for lots of games. As far as putting in time, I have time to chatter about this stuff but that’s about it. I thought it would be cool to see Pitfall II running in the flashback portable is all, for the kids. But I also have it for the C64 - that music certainly gets into your head! heheh I grew up programming games on the C= in BASIC and a little assembly, and have occasionally been tempted to take a crack at the VCS but always been daunted by what seems like nightmarish low level complexity. I know about BATARI BASIC, does it work? I think it would be cool if someone made a JavaScript, Python, and C compiler specifically for making games for the 2600 with commands for all the basic graphics and sounds, that makes it relatively simple for a non-genius to casually make games (about as easy as it was with old 8-bit BASIC)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Jentzsch Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 11 hours ago, splendidnut said: I think a pretty decent version of Pitfall 2 could be made without the need of the DPC or ARM chips, especially after seeing a game like Aardvark released. Maybe, but the effort for getting the kernels to work in Aardvark where quite large. There is a lot of special case handling and kernel nesting. There is even code where one kernel computes one value for the next kernel each loop. Just because the next kernel is missing a few cycles. I doubt anyone would invest the same effort just to create a "pretty decent version" of Pitfall 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SpiceWare Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 On 2/26/2020 at 8:11 AM, DrVenkman said: It’s responsible for the incredible in-game music, not the graphics. It's responsible for both. I posted a DPC demo here, which shows how DPC uses Data Fetchers to reduce the time it takes to draw the players (sprites). Specifically a multicolor player can be drawn in 14 cycles instead of a typical 26 cycles. Basically this: lda #SPRITEHEIGHT dcp SpriteTemp bcs DoDraw lda #0 .byte $2C DoDraw lda (GfxPtr),Y sta GRP0 ;+18 cycles lda (ColorPtr),y sta COLUP0 is reduced to this: LDA DF0DATAW ; 4 STA GRP0 ; 3 LDA DF1DATA ; 4 STA COLUP0 ; 3 Freeing up 12 cycles per 76 cycle scanline is quite significant as it allows you can do additional updates to TIA on every scanline, resulting in better graphics. Pitfall 2 updates the graphics and colors of both players, so 24 cycles are freed up on the 76 cycle scanline. CDFJ and DPC+ improve upon that by overriding LDA # to reduce the 14 cycles to 10: LDA #<DF0DATAW ; 2 STA GRP0 ; 3 LDA #<DF1DATA ; 2 STA COLUP0 ; 3 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KaeruYojimbo Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 4 hours ago, madatariscientistjr said: I know about BATARI BASIC, does it work? There are some limitations that come with making a game in batari basic, but if you put some time and effort into it you can make a pretty cool game. Check out the batari basic forum to see some of the things people here have done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madatariscientistjr Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 48 minutes ago, KaeruYojimbo said: There are some limitations that come with making a game in batari basic, but if you put some time and effort into it you can make a pretty cool game. Check out the batari basic forum to see some of the things people here have done with it. Thanks, I’ll check it out! Has anyone tried creating a 2600 VCS development system for other languages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+batari Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 Sorry for my ignorance on the topic, but if the AFP is an emulation machine, wouldn't resources be better spent on figuring out how to dump its firmware, disassemble it and rework it for better compatibility, instead of reprogramming countless thousands of games to work on it? 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr SQL Posted February 27, 2020 Share Posted February 27, 2020 1 hour ago, batari said: Sorry for my ignorance on the topic, but if the AFP is an emulation machine, wouldn't resources be better spent on figuring out how to dump its firmware, disassemble it and rework it for better compatibility, instead of reprogramming countless thousands of games to work on it? Great question - I think so more peple can play, it's a fun portable and most classic Atari games run on it and batari BASIC seems very compatible too without the enhancements. Unfortunately there is no Starpath emulation which motivated me to write a cross-compiler to translate supercharger RAM (squeeze) into CBS RAM which was a lot of fun and enabled many of my SuperCharger games to run on the portable. Maybe Bill can get the spec sheet and someone can find a way to hook the internal ARM for more compatibility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madatariscientistjr Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 The biggest shortcoming of the AFP is the controller - what they should do if there is ever an AFP v3, is add a mini/micro USB port (or let the existing one pass data not just charge) you can plug a breakout adapter into, that has 2 d-sub 9 and accepts all the original VCS controllers. The C64 TV had the same bottleneck - they included a single built-in joystick, when it should have had 2 D-SUB 9 ports and a USB port for a keyboard. Cuts the functionality from Very Cool down to Curiosity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratão Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 see this: https://shopee.com.br/Pitfall-2-Atari-2600-i.335241819.4565807035 This guy is making pitfall II. He is known as "Dablio" and is famous in Brazil for reverse engineering the atari. Dablio's facebook:https://www.facebook.com/dabliogamesretro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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