VinsCool Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 (edited) I have no idea what I am doing lol Been improving a bit that new sound design idea, still at 4x speed (200hz) Also trying to remix that one .mod tune from scratch ? I'll see if it also converts to LZSS without too much fuck up lol LZSS conversion worked first try! lol Uses the custom tables. Loading-dia v7_tune3.xex Edited March 15, 2021 by VinsCool Added .xex 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 28 minutes ago, VinsCool said: I have no idea what I am doing lol Been improving a bit that new sound design idea, still at 4x speed (200hz) That's not it at all ? but that sounds pretty damn cool! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, rensoup said: That's not it at all ? but that sounds pretty damn cool! Yeah I think I should have specified it was very loosely based on that .mod lol I kind of got carried over and liked this sound ? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 For such an early version it's already pushing boundaries as far as I'm concerned, I keep listening to it? (hopefully you'll do the classic 90's version too!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, rensoup said: For such an early version it's already pushing boundaries as far as I'm concerned, I keep listening to it? (hopefully you'll do the classic 90's version too!) I was mostly just trying some stuff around, but yeah the idea would be to cover it a bit more faithfully with my own twist. the lack of bass in the original made me try out 15khz along with my new 16-bit drums, and that sounded quite good, a bit of high pass filter on channel 1 later and I got quite a catchy loop hahaha not bad from being partially based on the pattern 03 in the actual .mod file, I suppose. That remix still has got plenty of space left to add even more elements, so there is no reason a proper cover couldn't work with as many elements as possible from the original. This is one of the example where importing a .mod in RMT wouldn't give nearly much freedom compared to rearranging from scratch in a way that makes use of what can be done, and no work around what couldn't be done [EDIT] Also I can confirm this one works perfectly from hardware. Sounds almost identical to what plays in Altirra, ? Edited March 15, 2021 by VinsCool 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted March 15, 2021 Author Share Posted March 15, 2021 Here goes attempt #2 This time it should become a little more faithful. There's still a lot missing but I'll find a way to squeeze more data in the patterns Loading-vin v4.xex 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted March 15, 2021 Share Posted March 15, 2021 Amazing what the new set of tools and inclusions are finally allowing you to do. This really does change the game for music on the Atari 8 bit. We really will need a complete manual explaining all of the nuances so that the masses can use this properly and get the best sound going for their offering be they new or remade into their old stuff. WOW 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 Finally getting some progress on that thing lol For such a short .mod tune it's surprisingly difficult to get right lol Hopefully once I finish it, it will be good enough ? Loading-vin v15.xex 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 Good tune, somehow. Bud ( ) it is exactly what you don't be able to implement particulare on the Atari. Loading tune uses all channels and a lot CPU cycles Btw: The tune uses "vocal" samples in the original. 15kHz and reduced to 3 channels (for PWM ) might bring the wanted result. Double speed ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted March 21, 2021 Author Share Posted March 21, 2021 And finished! This was quite a ride I have to say, there was a lot of frustrating sound design. The RMT file is a mess, and it really was necessary in order to get things to work at all, the kick drums were especially challenging to get sounding good. Loading Remix (Atari PoKEY, Recorded from Real Hardware, 200hz) I hope you like it Rensoup I attached the RMT and XEX below, the module requires the Alternate Tuning patched RMT version I posted in this thread a while ago, also it requires the custom tables included in RMT2LZSS to convert correctly. Loading-vin final.rmt Loading-vin final.xex 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted March 22, 2021 Share Posted March 22, 2021 17 hours ago, VinsCool said: And finished! This was quite a ride I have to say, there was a lot of frustrating sound design. The RMT file is a mess, and it really was necessary in order to get things to work at all, the kick drums were especially challenging to get sounding good. I do like it, honest! it's a very cool tune on its own but it's not quite like the original right? It's missing that slow voice-like sound from the 3rd channel ( in the mod file ), no channel available on the A8 to add that one I guess ? That said it's another Pokey pusher ? Just curious do you think it's possible to reduce it to 100hz without losing resolution on that 2nd channel (I tried it with RMT2LZSS and you can hear the difference) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted March 22, 2021 Author Share Posted March 22, 2021 1 hour ago, rensoup said: I do like it, honest! it's a very cool tune on its own but it's not quite like the original right? Thank you! like I said, I pretty much did my thing there more than attempt accurately covering the tune, there was too many things that couldn't be done or would not have sounded as good, these samples were not too nice especially lol 1 hour ago, rensoup said: It's missing that slow voice-like sound from the 3rd channel ( in the mod file ), no channel available on the A8 to add that one I guess ? It's crammed into channel 2 and every bit of available space I ended up doing some "chords" to simulate that part, which was better than leave the voice sustain a note and would have caused some dissonance (lovelylovelylovely .mod import at 15khz did this on the wrong key too lol) 1 hour ago, rensoup said: That said it's another Pokey pusher ? Ahhhh thank you ? It's so much fun to experiment with this chip 1 hour ago, rensoup said: Just curious do you think it's possible to reduce it to 100hz without losing resolution on that 2nd channel (I tried it with RMT2LZSS and you can hear the difference) It could be possible to go down to 50hz even, I did a joke conversion as well and sounded surprisingly not as bad as anticipated, so a bit of adjustments before conversion could work, no doubt. Loading-vin final 50hz joke conversion.xex 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 23 hours ago, VinsCool said: It's crammed into channel 2 and every bit of available space I ended up doing some "chords" to simulate that part, which was better than leave the voice sustain a note and would have caused some dissonance (lovelylovelylovely .mod import at 15khz did this on the wrong key too lol) I played with the volume offset and I had to set the channels to -10 +15 -5 -10 so that I could hear it, obviously that totally messed up the balance? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 Dear god what am I doing lol Warning, high pitched hisses, listen with caution. The good news: a new reliable method to generate sawtooth waveform. The bad news: it sounds like pain, and it's currently offtune (to my own tuning approach), but I'll try to improve that. On the bright side, thanks to RMT2LZSS custom instruments and tables, the method DOES work, and can even handle vibrato surprisingly well, as heard in this one. Even portamento might work, in theory. Even better, waveform shape can be inverted by swapping the distortion tables, 1 of each is necessary in channel 1 and 3, and channel 3 MUST be muted. In short, it goes that way: - Create 2 8-bit tables, use one of each per channel, they can be swapped, but each ones must be used to work. - Channel 3 MUST be muted, otherwise you will hurt your ears (and most likely everyone else's nearby ). - in the custom instrument .erti, make sure to use the 2 distortions created for this purpose, in the customnotestable.txt file. - Add $64 in the AUDCTL envelope. The channel 1 and 3 will run at 1.79mhz clock and have high pass filter applied. - Enjoy! So it's just a matter of improving the tuning and working around the hissy parts now I'll post the actual files to make use of this once I feel it's good enough to use, so that may take a little bit of time. Special thanks to @Synthpopalooza for the original sawtooth table I used here. I have a good feeling this can be improved nicely, and that should be easier this time since now I do have a reference for the frequencies I want to get 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Stephen Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 Well, you managed to completely peg the 16kHz band on my RTA. Interesting sounds, if like you say, they can be tamed. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted March 23, 2021 Share Posted March 23, 2021 So ... Any frequencies below about $50 start to put the base frequency artifact into the audible range. The lower you go, the more noticeable it is. No fix for it sadly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 57 minutes ago, Stephen said: Well, you managed to completely peg the 16kHz band on my RTA. Interesting sounds, if like you say, they can be tamed. Sorry about that lol. I have yet to find a way to reduce the noise. I had tried some volume only output in hope that could mask out some of it, and while it did sort of work it also drowned everything else, hahaha. That gives me NES DPCM flashbacks. 22 minutes ago, Synthpopalooza said: Any frequencies below about $50 start to put the base frequency artifact into the audible range. The lower you go, the more noticeable it is. No fix for it sadly. I was hoping there was some alternatives, tuning the entire table to fit my own is going to be a project anyway so if I can find at least some notes can sound consistent without so much noise it would be nice. The current issue I had was not specifically the lower octaves, I know those couldn't be improved by much, but some random notes that sound significantly noisier even if only a semitone next to another, smooth sounding one. POKEY Explorer, a tuner, a note pad and my poor ears will love this, lol I hope my potential loss of hearing will be worth it, hahaha 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rensoup Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 2 hours ago, VinsCool said: The good news: a new reliable method to generate sawtooth waveform. The bad news: it sounds like pain, and it's currently offtune (to my own tuning approach), but I'll try to improve that. Nice! Hopefully those bugs are solvable... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, rensoup said: Nice! Hopefully those bugs are solvable... Thankfully this is not a bug, this is just how these things behave, this chip is very quirky Edited March 24, 2021 by VinsCool 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 I had seen this message in the .exe when I was playing with note tables, but I guess now I found how to actually trigger it lol Unsurprisingly, this also makes RMT2LZSS crash when I attempt to convert modules with instrument speed greater than 4 It outputs sapr and lz16 files, yay for breaking everything doing unexpected things, hahahaha 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 Some explanations: We are dealing with intervals here, specifically these ones: * AUDF1 and AUDF3 differ by +/-1 * AUDF1 and AUDF3 differ by +/-2 * +/-3 * +/-5 * +/-7 With the greater intervals come greater accuracy in the higher notes. The downside: notes about the $5xxx range or lower, introduce the base frequency artifact. Above these, it's inaudible (except to dogs, lol) but below, you can start to hear it. In the higher intervals, the artifact appears higher up in the note table. My note table may need some altering as well. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 This 1.79MHz Filter thing is a kind of it's own. Not really usable to program music , it is the feature that it kicks the square klicks into the unhearable range. "realtime manipulations" on both channels (at digitizing speed) might offer digitized sounds without sampling noise. In the end the digitizing speed makes the frequency (so it's in tune) , the high played waves form the shape between the changes in the sampling. Remember: What you hear there is the interference of both channels! I'd name it "waveshaping". It's like "the next step is lower in voltage, so form a falling (backward sawtooth), and "the next step is higher in voltage, so form a ascending (forward) sawtooth". What's possible after all, well we might never know 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emkay Posted March 24, 2021 Share Posted March 24, 2021 My game "Admirandus" uses 1.79MHz sounds for everything (wait for pause mode or push the video forward ) Doing the vibratos did help a lot to bring it into music somehow. But I wouldn't expect more at normal programming. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 There's still a lot of work for this but so far I was able to improve the sawtooth tuning a bit and reduce the hissing on octave 3,4 and 5. everything else was not changed yet, but that will wait for later, my ears hurt a little bit right now lol ? Sketch 45 v1.xex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinsCool Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 53 minutes ago, emkay said: My game "Admirandus" uses 1.79MHz sounds for everything (wait for pause mode or push the video forward ) Doing the vibratos did help a lot to bring it into music somehow. But I wouldn't expect more at normal programming. This very much sounds like sawtooth waves in there! and I hear little to no hiss, this gives me good hope. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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