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1 hour ago, DrVenkman said:

I told you to hold your guesses. True stereo tracks coming later today (not stereo tracks recorded as mixed-mono). :)

はい先生
 

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Here are the new tracks - one is POKEY left channel, POKEY right channel. The other is POKEY left channel, PokeyONE right channel. They were recorded using the same equipment playing the same demo as yesterday's tracks.

 

 

Track 1.wav Track 2.wav

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I was switching between the two of them and I can't tell the difference.  If there is a difference, then it's minor enough to not bother me.  

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Is there a way to have the PokeyOne play the left channel, and then mix the recordings of both PokeyOne left and right channel output to a 100% PokeyOne rendition? 

(Not that I think I'm gonna hear much difference personally, but it would be cool to hear tunes that are 100% PokeyOne.)

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5 hours ago, Starius said:

Is there a way to have the PokeyOne play the left channel, and then mix the recordings of both PokeyOne left and right channel output to a 100% PokeyOne rendition? 

(Not that I think I'm gonna hear much difference personally, but it would be cool to hear tunes that are 100% PokeyOne.)

Not with the setup I’ve got currently - you need a “full” POKEY to boot the computer, load up the demo disk, etc. However, that’s why I re-recorded the tracks in stereo rather than both channels mixed-down to mono.

 

You can play them back through headphones or your computer and either swap earphones around to compare left and right channels through the same ear or use a fader control to silence one channel or the other to help you compare.

 

If your audio software displays the waveforms, you can zoom in and examine them yourself as well. If you compare both recordings to one another, know that the left channel is POKEY for both, while the right channel for one of the two is PokeyONE.

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On 9/22/2019 at 7:48 AM, Trebor said:

 

 

Bravo! Cost considerations aside, between what DrVenkman posted, and Al's review of the chip, it seems we have a winner.  Although, I would love to hear how well it performs against some of the more less used sound options of the POKEY.  Synthpopalooza has really been tapping some awesome features and sound in the thread linked earlier.

 

It should work on anything not needing the SKCTL 2-tone mode.  This means the megaman, bubble bobble, and rolling thunder demos.  Feel free to try those on POKEYOne and let me know the results.

 

I am working up a demo using the high pass filter and am most curious how POKEYOne will handle it.

Edited by Synthpopalooza

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OK, I'm not privy to programming and whatnot, but is there any way to make a Game Genie-like add-on to just plug a game needing a Pokey chip into the add-on before plugging it into the 7800? If the AudioVox can run separately I don't see how this idea would not work. 

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11 hours ago, Synthpopalooza said:

I wonder what the logistics would be for building a POKEY or AY-3-8910 passthrough cart.  Don't think it would be difficult.

Presumably the XM was supposed to be have been this, and years ago, but that obviously never happened. However, I think this exact idea - a relatively simple plug-in sound module has been discussed before. I think such a thing is just one of the many things @CPUWIZ has prototyped in his Magical Laboratory of 7800 Wonder. :)

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On 10/1/2019 at 8:25 AM, DrVenkman said:

Presumably the XM was supposed to be have been this, and years ago, but that obviously never happened. However, I think this exact idea - a relatively simple plug-in sound module has been discussed before. I think such a thing is just one of the many things @CPUWIZ has prototyped in his Magical Laboratory of 7800 Wonder. :)

 

And with that, like Commodus early in the film Gladiator, I slip into the conversation and whisper the word XBoard instead of Republic... :)

 

Maybe The Brewing Academy could clone it. Slap 2 PokeyONEs on it and have that bonus 128K RAM too... that's like 2 XM features right there, plus the extra POKEY... Wonder how that could be wired up with the TIA and a UAV for Dual Mono/Stereo Sound...

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On 9/13/2019 at 3:52 PM, DrVenkman said:

Kind of getting this back to the start of the topic, for those who didn't watch the original video or read the entire thread - PokeyOne will work as a drop-in replacement for all the various arcade machine boards that use original POKEY chips, basically, except (I guess?) the handful that used specialized QuadPOKEY such as STAR WARS; that means in addition to generating sound, it has to have accurate RNG to pass the self-test stuff in arcade consoles for the machines that use it (this is addressed in the video). It also has to read paddles (for WARLORDS). What it definitely does not do as-is is serial I/O as used in the A8 machines. And I'm not sure about the keyboard lines - it's been discussed up-thread I'm sure. There is a working prototype of a newer, more capable version that has at least some of these functions implemented but that's as much as I know about that right now.

 

Having said that, I'm meeting with the developer next week one afternoon for lunch. :) I will have much better first-hand info then. 

 

The Atari Coin-Op games that used Quad POKEY previously dealt with the inability to find replacement chips by using the "Quad POKEY Eliminator Board". They'd populate those with regular POKEY chips, mainly sourced also from 7800 Ballblazer carts.

 

https://www.highscoresaves.com/vector-labs-quad-pokey-replacement.html

 

Atari Coin may have had a Dual POKEY chip or maybe they just used 2 POKEYs. Even Centipede used Dual POKEY audio. There's also a Stereo POKEY chip called PORKEY but I couldn't tell you which arcade game used it for sure.

 

As soon as there's a multiple POKEY solution, it'll mean the Coin-Op Enthusiasts won't be competing with A8/5200/7800 enthusiasts for the remaining available POKEYs.

 

Then again, maybe WDC will take notice of all of this and strike a deal with "Atari" and WB Games to bring to the market new POKEYs. I would so laugh if someone populated the Commander 16 project with such POKEYs much to the chagrin of the SID enthusiasts [SIDiots? has that been coined previously???] littering that homebrew project, and elsewhere...

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10 minutes ago, Lynxpro said:

As soon as there's a multiple POKEY solution ...

There already is. PokeyMAX has a dual-POKEY option, and David (the gentleman who designed PokeyONE already has a "Q Pokey" (not sure of his precise name for it) for the arcade guys. 

Quote

Then again, maybe WDC will take notice of all of this and strike a deal with "Atari" and WB Games to bring to the market new POKEYs.

Hah. No, they won't. No one is going to want to pay the 6 to 7 figures it would take to find the legit Atari-original production films (assuming they exist and haven't degraded beyond usability with time); then scan them in high enough resolution to be useful to a modern chip fab; then spend the months necessary to verify the scan is correct and accurate; then run off a few dozen or a few hundred new prototype chips for functional testing; and then produce thousands of them to satisfy the relative small demand.

 

No, like it or not, FPGA re-implementations of all our vintage custom ICs is all we are going to get. 

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10 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

Hah. No, they won't. No one is going to want to pay the 6 to 7 figures it would take to find the legit Atari-original production films (assuming they exist and haven't degraded beyond usability with time); then scan them in high enough resolution to be useful to a modern chip fab; then spend the months necessary to verify the scan is correct and accurate; then run off a few dozen or a few hundred new prototype chips for functional testing; and then produce thousands of them to satisfy the relative small demand.

 

Emperor Palpatine should have a discussion with you on that vision thing of yours... :)

 

I know what we can do. Let's bribe RJ Michal into telling the Amiga fanbase that it was always their intent to use the POKEY in the Amiga to complement the PAULA but the "evil" Tramiels wouldn't license it to MOS or sell them the chips.

 

If any group can get the impossible done, it's the rabid Amigans.... they'll successfully Kickstart - no pun intended, honest! - anything related to their cherished platform, no matter how many naysayers claim it to be unrealistic.  :)

 

I'm sure RJ would be down for that. He always contends that the story is more important than historical accuracy.  :)

 

And Bill Mensch of WDC would be down with it so long as he's still alive and kickin':

 

https://ataripodcast.libsyn.com/antic-interview-96-bill-mensch-6502-chip

Edited by Lynxpro

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1 minute ago, Lynxpro said:

Emperor Palpatine should have a discussion with you on that vision thing of yours...

My vision is just fine, as is my grasp of the technology and human nature. Those all indicate that the future is FPGA. Embrace it and learn to realize that we increasingly-old farts are the only ones who care about this stuff beyond tech museums. And in 10 - 40 years when most of us are all dead, there will be more than enough vintage originals to satisfy the demand of the couple hundred museum pieces still around that a few archivists care about. :)

 

In the meantime, we have vintage originals, and a couple of FPGA alternatives. That's reality.

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On 10/1/2019 at 11:25 AM, DrVenkman said:

Presumably the XM was supposed to be have been this, and years ago, but that obviously never happened. However, I think this exact idea - a relatively simple plug-in sound module has been discussed before. I think such a thing is just one of the many things @CPUWIZ has prototyped in his Magical Laboratory of 7800 Wonder. :)

 

Ya the XM was supposed to have a "real" pokey in it and with this new FPGA implementation taking it's place that shows that even a core chip such as the POKEY's needed for the XM where never purchased.  Whatever gets it out the door at this point, but seriously, the more you learn the worse the truth is about that thing. Shells, Bezels, Smoke and Mirrors.

 

 And you are correct, CPUWIZ did have a POKEY pass-though cart design completed at one time many years ago.

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42 minutes ago, Shawn said:

 

Ya the XM was supposed to have a "real" pokey in it and with this new FPGA implementation taking it's place that shows that even a core chip such as the POKEY's needed for the XM where never purchased.  Whatever gets it out the door at this point, but seriously, the more you learn the worse the truth is about that thing. Shells, Bezels, Smoke and Mirrors.

 

 And you are correct, CPUWIZ did have a POKEY pass-though cart design completed at one time many years ago.

 

I didn't get that impression that Curt doesn't have POKEYs; I took it as he was testing it with the PokeyONE to make sure it would actually work if someone wanted to go that route. Did I read that wrong?

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22 minutes ago, Lynxpro said:

 

I didn't get that impression that Curt doesn't have POKEYs; I took it as he was testing it with the PokeyONE to make sure it would actually work if someone wanted to go that route. Did I read that wrong?

 

He was trying to have it right on board but couldn't so he had to go with the original dip chip footprint. Anyone who owned a couple hundred pokeys for a project already wouldn't logically do that further delaying things.

 

On 10/3/2019 at 7:10 PM, Curt Vendel said:

I also was working on integrating the POKEY Max directly onto the board, but the BGA is a massive pain in the ass, so I'm going to leave it as a plug in board instead onto the XM's.   Trying to work that in sadly chewed up a heck of a lot of my spare time.

 

Also, he's using "POKEY Max" which I don't believe is the same as the "PokeyONE". While I would greatly prefer an original pokey in there, on the positive side I really don't care if this is what finally gets it out the door and in my\our hands. 

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10 hours ago, Shawn said:

Also, he's using "POKEY Max" which I don't believe is the same as the "PokeyONE". While I would greatly prefer an original pokey in there, on the positive side I really don't care if this is what finally gets it out the door and in my\our hands. 

 

Kudos if the PokeyMAX works. If I'm not mistaken, that can replicate Quad POKEY audio... Which means if it worked, and if/when the XM is released, it should be able to come close to Atari Coin/Games' best arcade audio... Quad POKEY and the YM2151. Granted, Atari Games also had a TI speech synthesis chip and a 6502 to boss all of the audio chips around in addition to the main CPU.

 

What I personally find amusing is that the Commander X16 homebrew project keeps on stating they're having problems getting the YM2151 to work on their project's 8 Mhz bus. As if it isn't fast enough. I mean WTF? I seriously doubt the XM's internal bus is faster than 1.79 MHz. Yamaha's MSX based music computer from 1985 probably wasn't 8 MHz. After the AMY didn't work out, Atari Corp planned on using the YM2151 on the ST's 8 MHz bus but Yamaha wouldn't sell them the chip. And I'd wager that not all of Atari Games', Sega's, Capcom's, or most of the other coin-op companies' arcade games had 8 MHz busses...

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23 hours ago, Lynxpro said:

 

What I personally find amusing is that the Commander X16 homebrew project keeps on stating they're having problems getting the YM2151 to work on their project's 8 Mhz bus. As if it isn't fast enough. I mean WTF? I seriously doubt the XM's internal bus is faster than 1.79 MHz. Yamaha's MSX based music computer from 1985 probably wasn't 8 MHz. After the AMY didn't work out, Atari Corp planned on using the YM2151 on the ST's 8 MHz bus but Yamaha wouldn't sell them the chip. And I'd wager that not all of Atari Games', Sega's, Capcom's, or most of the other coin-op companies' arcade games had 8 MHz busses...

The clock spec for the YM2151 is 3.58MHz.  So maybe their bus is actually too fast?

 

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2 hours ago, tep392 said:

The clock spec for the YM2151 is 3.58MHz.  So maybe their bus is actually too fast?

 

 

That doesn't sound - no pun intended - right. If Shiraz Shivji could get the YM2151 working on the 8 MHz motherboard of the prototype Atari Corp RBP/ST back in 1984, why can't they do the same in 2019? :)

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Its all about timing. Putting the data on the bus at the right time and for the right duration. Theres a lot of ways to screw that up. 

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