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brenski

1050 - Menu Disks

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This is a curious one. The problem isn't with the format/write/read of disks through PC. I've four 1050 enhanced drives

 

formatting/reading/writing D/Dens disks using APE/Prosytem via SIO2PC has been successful for all of my drives:
■ IS PLate (both devices)
■ Hyperdrive 
■ Irata Verlag
 Happy Clone (same as yours)

Sing/Dens : 40 tracks, 18 SPT, 128 BPS
Enh/Dens : 40 tracks, 26 SPT, 128 BPS
Dbl/Dens : 40 tracks, 18 SPT, 256 BPS
the same disk used for all - 3x d/drives = 9x format/write/read - without any issues/problems at all

However NONE of the drives will create a D/Dens IanK disk directly from IanK Menu Maker v1.9 from floppy boot with Atari XL - Same rule applies to any other Menu Creators (ie Alpha) - they'll all do single density, but not double
Sing/Dens = ok
Dbl/Dens = shit! bad disk

 

Were these 1908s menu makers actually formatting true double density (180k) or enhanced (130k) ?

this is using the same disks used for exercise above - puzzled by this one

Edited by brenski

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Tried on one of my MegaSpeedy as Drive 2, loading Ian K via APE. 130XE (Didn't want to load from floppy for some reason)

 

Ian K. DD disk image from US Doubler - Ian K DD.atr

 

US Doubler - Yes

Happy - No

Super Archiver - Yes

1050 Duplicator - Yes

SuperMax - No

IS Plate - No

1050 Turbo - No

Speedy's - No 

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If you snoop the format command with APE or RespeQt, maybe you can see if it's trying to use the US Doubler 'format custom' $66 command to format double density disks?

 

This command is supported by US Doubler, and Super Archiver, but not by Happy 1050, or clones/hacks derived from it.

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thanks guys. your findings are pretty much consistent with my own. seems Happy and clones really don't do everything.

 

same applies completely to Alpha / Alpha-Load menus (those ones with scrolling colour bars/fuji menus)

 

a friend has a happy board that appears to handle/create the Ian-K d/dens disks correctly on real hardware independent of APE. this would suggest that her Happy is either a Super Archiver or a US Doubler?

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6 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

was there a utility that probed the drives and told you what you had?

not every a universal "one size fits all" - that I'm aware of.

Certainly the diags on the Happy 7.0 menu come as close as anything.

 

however, for really precise diagnostics/system info each manufacturer appears to "do their own thing"

I've got disks by Rana, Innovated Software (IS Plate), California Access and one or two others - and all are have something unique for their own device.

Kinda makes the whole "testing/diag/compare" process much harder than it should be

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@Nezgar @Zarxx @1050 @thedoctor

 

Reason behind the initial question is that I recently sold one of my two Irata Verlag Happy clones and the buyer was confused by its inability to load those 180k IanK menu disks.

 

Now, everything discussed above does indeed confirm that the (sold) Irata Verlag as well as my d/drives above are behaving as they should. Which is fine.

But then the buyer of my Irata Verlag says that:

 

"Her original Happy Drive can read all 180k IanK menu disks without any problem" 

 

It definitely is a Happy Drive of the type in these pictures - will get an actual photo today.

 

post-53052-0-20271800-1521098749.jpgatari-1050-happy-1-disk-drive-happy_360_

 

So I suppose the remaining questions are:

 

How is her "Happy" reading 180k IanK disks when others won't? Could it (somehow) be set to permanent US Doubler Mode? and if so, how's that done?

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@brenski Is it possible to post an ATR example of one of these disks so I may try to test them myself? (Or a link an existing one somewhere) I am not sure what an IanK menu disk is myself. I can try it against a few Happy 1050 and 'hacked' happy ROM's I have, ie "Lazer 1050" and "Happy V3"

 

The "IRATA Verlag" board you refer to may be a "Happy derived" hacked ROM that "mostly" functions like the original happy, but has hacks that enable fast writes with ultraspeed out of the box, and an increased stepper rate. Might break compatibility with software expecting specific behaviour of the original.

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@Nezgar thanks Ryan.

Here's a photo of the actual Happy Board that is reading the Iank 180k disks.

 

and here's one of the 180k IanK disks it loads.

 

 

image1.jpeg

Games02B.ATR

Edited by brenski

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@Nezgar

I've just managed to write that ATR image file out to a real 5¼" disk using APE/Prosystem and my Irata Verlag (Happy clone).

Prosystem reported 

 

Formatting

40 tracks, 18 SPT, 256 BPS

Complete

 

Here's the catch: Resultant disk will NOT boot on that drive. 

Initially, it attempts to boot, then stops followed by continual quick-burst boot noise, but no drive activity.

 

So I suppose what we're looking at is that only *some* Happy Boards actually read US Doubler disks?

would they be genuine Happy or Clones?

Edited by brenski

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It's junk boot code.

 

Bad JSR to routines that are close by, but missed, fix one, three others pop up.

Just a roundhouse of missed it by that much. Doesn't work anywhere 6502 does.

 

What I don't know is how it got that way. Or why you now have it, expecting it

to ever work. Or what it looked like when it did work. A screen shot of a working

menu disk is not in this thread.

 

Actual sources also a great mystery.

 

Refrain with the US Doubler Disks phrasing please - it's not a valid 'thing'.

No magic required to boot DD disks, the first three sectors must come in

as SD and within that code a means to effect DD loading must be achieved.

OS 128 byte per sector boot code in ROM is then left to languish for the rest of the disk.

This code appears to be more than capable if it weren't for the errors in jumping around

insanely like a chicken with it's head cut off. Bad author can't keep his source code straight,

or bad keeper of the flame, stepped on by what process, who can know from here?

And with nothing to go on, I'm done before I can start.

It does appear that this code is not the code that works. Tell me why and we'll both know.

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@1050

as I said a couple of posts earlier. these are ATR images of the actual disks.

They're the property of the lady that bought my Irata Verlag 1050.

 

She maintains that the actual disks that these images were ATR'd from, boot successfully in her US Doubler 1050 and her Happy 1050 (board picture above).

 

She sent me the ATRs because the disks will not load in the Irata Verlag i sold her.

 

beyond that, i have no other insight.

 

the question (for me) seems: "what's going on with her Happy Drive that allows the disks to load, but no other Happy drive - mine (another Irata Verlag, 2x IS Plates and a Hyperdrive), yours or anyone else in this thread can do so?

Edited by brenski

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you would need access to her drive... and possibly dump her firmware for comparison

remember also happy did allow for custom format and backup that were locked to a certain drive at one time... an archived copy made on one happy would not work on a standard drive or another happy. This was done for those worried about copyrights etc.

 

also it wouldn't be the first time an ATR was created incorrectly..

Edited by _The Doctor__

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and with Altirra set to

600/800XL PAL

320k Compy

Firmware: XL/XE OS ver2 / Basic Rev C / Happy 1050 hw_V3.bin

 

i get a boot screen:

 

 

altirra iank 180k .JPG

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This is weird, but just this afternoon I was trying to image some RobC menu disks (with Music) and my 1050 (with a Happy Upgrade from AtariMax ) was get getting bad sectors. This is using the APE Pro system software. Could it be that Happy Drives have issues with these types of disks? 

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dump and burn the happy rom that your using from altira and toss it in your drives happy board... there you go...

just make sure the real drives are at correct rpm's and aligned.

unless of course the emulation is set in a way or does something different that is...

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3 hours ago, Ely said:

This is weird, but just this afternoon I was trying to image some RobC menu disks (with Music) and my 1050 (with a Happy Upgrade from AtariMax ) was get getting bad sectors. This is using the APE Pro system software. Could it be that Happy Drives have issues with these types of disks? 

never had any issues with Rob C disks from/to ATR - they usually work fine. 

2 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

dump and burn the happy rom that your using from altira and toss it in your drives happy board... there you go...

just make sure the real drives are at correct rpm's and aligned.

unless of course the emulation is set in a way or does something different that is...

will do that. will report back with a dead Irata Verlag

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29 minutes ago, brenski said:

never had any issues with Rob C disks from/to ATR - they usually work fine.

No me neither until today. I only noticed because disks I images about 20 years ago weren't actually imaged correctly. So I finally got round to dealing with them today and in each case the ones with issues were RobC disks. I'm going to have to try booting them on a machine to see if they are just rotten disks or something else is at play.

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My bad entirely, sorry.

 

The code works fine Atari800Win no special drive at all.

 

What I should have done was to try it first instead of attempted

disassembly where I made blunders to put it mildly.

She is correct.

 

Only thing I got now is perhaps it's the famous timing issue and

somehow hers is more better set and thus not so critical to it?

Best of luck getting to the bottom of it.

 

 

atari003.png.4295793c34afd604c5c9192ca97406eb.png

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after a little experimentation this morning - and some help from @flashjazzcat - I've now found arrived at a couple of safe conclusions:

 

■ programmed hw_V3.bin (doubled) to 27c128, inserted in Irata Verlag board - drive doesn't even spin up.

■ made copy of Irata Verlag rom and burned to 27c128, inserted in Irata Verlag board - drive boots and functions as Happy.

 

Conclusions:

■ Irata Verlag = temperamental beast with some (subtle, but vital) firmware incompatibility with Happy

■ Need copy of friend's Happy that boots IanK d/den disks.

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this saga just keeps on adding to my already scrambled brain.

 

friend has sent me the disk she uses to create her IanK dbl/dens disks (attached) - loving this rabbit hole experience...

 

■ in APE/Prosystem, created REAL Disk from ATR file

■ resultant disk will NOT boot from Irata Verlag or Hypderdrive (1050)

■ resultant disk WILL boot from IS Plate (1050)

■ on IS Plate drive - selected B. Ian K Menu Maker - and format disk option

■ selected 3. Double Density = "sh*t! bad disk" (these are known good d/d disks)

■ selected 2. Dual (1050) Density = formats successfully

■ selected Create Menu option = attempts to write out to disk then stops

■ resultant disk unusable

 

😕

Util08A_TurboUtilities [keep this].ATR

 

Capture.thumb.JPG.c8ba2a35cd78cea811834f51cadf9c8f.JPGCapture2.thumb.JPG.097ea34c753fc139daa432556f9617d7.JPGCapture3.thumb.JPG.dd77a4370d5605f8b81f424ef4a11762.JPG

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