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blackbox (and others?) unable to use atariage.com

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Hi,

I was asked by blackbox to send best wishes to all on atariage.

Quote

...and pass on my regrets that I am now unable to access the forum at all, following the recent changes.

I am unable to answer any messages sent to me via the forum- I have email notifications of messages but I cannot then access the site to see them. Nor can I access the forum to remove my email address!

So- no more scanned TI manuals from me.

The first brick wall- as far as I can get- is that the new servers have been set to use ONLY HTTPS and ONLY the latest very highest level of HTTPS. I am not going to buy a new PC to access a website about a 40 year old computer.

So please can you pass on a "farewell" from me. I leave because I am locked out, not due to lack of interest.

Thanks.

 

Is there anything we can do for blackbox? I assume it is connected to the used operating system, not the browser, is it?

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I have spoken to him about this, he is running an "old unsupported browser" that is not compatible with the ciphers used by the web server.  He provided me with some technical information that would allow him access by enabling some older browsers that don't support ECDHE, but I need to take the time to investigate this myself before making any changes to the web server.  This is the default configuration for the server, I haven't done anything to intentionally make it more difficult for people to access.  This is part of making the entire site full-time HTTPS. 

 

I have not had any reports of anyone else being unable to access AtariAge for reasons like this.  Any reasonably modern web browser should be able to access the site without difficulty.  There's nothing magical or bleeding edge the forum is doing that would exclude users, and in this case it's actually a server configuration issue and not really anything to do with the forum. 

 

I will do my best to try and make the site accessible to him, but as I have my hands pretty full at the moment, it'll probably be a week or to before I can get to this.

 

 ..Al

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7 minutes ago, arcadeshopper said:

at some point you have to draw the line, google is going to mark your site as "bad" if you aren't https. 

We're already well past the line, with web browsers marking sites not using HTTPS as "Insecure", often with "Insecure" in bright red text (especially on pages that have a form you submit data to, such as login forms, even if the login form itself uses HTTPS but the rest of the page is just normal HTTP).  I bet Google is also ranking non-HTTPS pages lower as well.

 

 ..Al

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Not sure how many people fall into the category, but older versions of Windows like Windows predating Windows 2000, have browser software long ago not supported and being turned away from websites.  These users have already "given up" the ability to do any online banking, Amazon, ordering prescription drugs, etc. on their setups.  The one person I personally know using old software just won't budge.

 

Beery

 

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The (necessary) forward march of progress.  Indeed, my phone's native browser can no longer access secure sites.  Older Android versions, older iOS, the same.

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Posted (edited)

Yup, i know this feeling. The sole reason i finally had to install a newer linux was to keep using a few sites that just quit working.

For the longest time, i ran Ubuntu 11.04 Natty until about 2 years ago, and had so many custom PPA's and compiled by hand hacks gluing Natty all together, it was basically just a digital house of cards. I brought in stuff from 12.04, a few things from 11.10, even some older 10.04 things... What ever it took to meet dependencies to install or compile things i needed.

 

As long as you did not breath on it the wrong way, it worked for 99.9% of what i needed on a day to day basis.

But, as i can no longer log into important stuff like bills, it was time to let it go... Partially at least. I now dual boot this extremely customized 11.04, along side Ubuntu 16.04 Mate.

Maybe someday i will finally totally get rid of 11.04, but i just know it too good, used it for too long.

As 16.04 is a LTS release, i plan on using it up to (and well past) the official "end of life", only upgrading from this when i can again no longer do day to day tasks.

Even if it means using Windows from a VM and installing the latest browser in it, and using the internet from there, i'll do it, what ever it takes to keep from doing a system wide upgrade/reinstall for another year or two.

Edited by jrhodes

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1 hour ago, jrhodes said:

Yup, i know this feeling. The sole reason i finally had to install a newer linux was to keep using a few sites that just quit working.

For the longest time, i ran Ubuntu 11.04 Natty until about 2 years ago, and had so many custom PPA's and compiled by hand hacks gluing Natty all together, it was basically just a digital house of cards. I brought in stuff from 12.04, a few things from 11.10, even some older 10.04 things... What ever it took to meet dependencies to install or compile things i needed.

 

As long as you did not breath on it the wrong way, it worked for 99.9% of what i needed on a day to day basis.

But, as i can no longer log into important stuff like bills, it was time to let it go... Partially at least. I now dual boot this extremely customized 11.04, along side Ubuntu 16.04 Mate.

Maybe someday i will finally totally get rid of 11.04, but i just know it too good, used it for too long.

As 16.04 is a LTS release, i plan on using it up to (and well past) the official "end of life", only upgrading from this when i can again no longer do day to day tasks.

Even if it means using Windows from a VM and installing the latest browser in it, and using the internet from there, i'll do it, what ever it takes to keep from doing a system wide upgrade/reinstall for another year or two.

nice thing about that is you could just dd that to an image then boot it in a vm on your newer system if you need something off it.. someone stuck with ancientwinders is not as lucky 

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It's still usable on the Internet, but I have an older (7 year old Dell Laptop) in excellent shape but it's dog slow with all the updates and garbage on it.  I plan to downloaded the latest Ubuntu ISO and replace the Windows 7.... "someday",  but because I have no clue how to do that, which is probably quite simple, I never get around to it. 

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26 minutes ago, --- Ω --- said:

It's still usable on the Internet, but I have an older (7 year old Dell Laptop) in excellent shape but it's dog slow with all the updates and garbage on it.  I plan to downloaded the latest Ubuntu ISO and replace the Windows 7.... "someday",  but because I have no clue how to do that, which is probably quite simple, I never get around to it. 

download iso ((I suggest Xubuntu over regular ubuntu, it's more "windowslike" and less overhead)) https://xubuntu.org  (get the LTS version, stands for LONG TERM SUPPORT) 

burn to cd/dvd or make a bootable usb  https://tutorials.ubuntu.com/tutorial/tutorial-create-a-usb-stick-on-windows#0

boot to it

select install

select erase windows and install ubuntu 

when it asks you if you want to install "restricted extras" such as mp3 playback etc.. say yes

profit

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18 hours ago, arcadeshopper said:

nice thing about that is you could just dd that to an image then boot it in a vm on your newer system if you need something off it.. someone stuck with ancientwinders is not as lucky 

Depends.  VirtualBox works quite well, and there is Hyper-V built into Windows 10.  I have virtualized desktops for customers for similar reasons.

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Just now, OLD CS1 said:

Depends.  VirtualBox works quite well, and there is Hyper-V built into Windows 10.  I have virtualized desktops for customers for similar reasons.

older versions of windows don't like "different hardware" though, how do you get around that? since the vm is usually not the same motherboard/graphics card/network card/drive tech 

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4 minutes ago, arcadeshopper said:

older versions of windows don't like "different hardware" though, how do you get around that? since the vm is usually not the same motherboard/graphics card/network card/drive tech 

Depends upon the version of Windows.  With XP and 2000 you can do a "Windows on Windows" installation which will replace the HAL with the appropriate DLL and configuration.  Windows 7 is a little more forgiving so long as you use similar hardware in VirtualBox, and Windows 10 had virtualized for me with no problems.  Activation may be a problem in XP but there are numerous documented ways to get around this.

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1 minute ago, OLD CS1 said:

Depends upon the version of Windows.  With XP and 2000 you can do a "Windows on Windows" installation which will replace the HAL with the appropriate DLL and configuration.  Windows 7 is a little more forgiving so long as you use similar hardware in VirtualBox, and Windows 10 had virtualized for me with no problems.  Activation may be a problem in XP but there are numerous documented ways to get around this.

yeah windows 10 doesn't care about hardware the drive can be pulled from one machine and installed in another (like linux has been able to do for many moons) so it doesn't care, it's XP/2k .. windows 7 should have a browser capable of https still :)

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2 hours ago, arcadeshopper said:

yeah windows 10 doesn't care about hardware the drive can be pulled from one machine and installed in another (like linux has been able to do for many moons) so it doesn't care, it's XP/2k .. windows 7 should have a browser capable of https still :)

Oh yes , I have 7 on my work machine, not by choice, but I have no issues on these site, and chrome and firefox are updated regularly.

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6 hours ago, arcadeshopper said:

older versions of windows don't like "different hardware" though, how do you get around that? since the vm is usually not the same motherboard/graphics card/network card/drive tech 

If you're really dedicated to the cause, you can sysprep the older system before you image it for the VM. This takes the installed system and cleans up the hardware and registration keys as if for a new deployment. When you boot it, you get the 'out of box experience', which asks for the license key and collects the hardware information for first run.

I /think/ it preserves the user data, that's the only thing you'd have to check (been over a decade since I used it regularly). And, of course, it's making a lot of changes, so you'd back up FIRST. ;)

 

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57 minutes ago, Tursi said:

I /think/ it preserves the user data, that's the only thing you'd have to check (been over a decade since I used it regularly). And, of course, it's making a lot of changes, so you'd back up FIRST. ;)

 

 

It preserves user data, but not the account links to profiles. Thus, user data gets orphaned.

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8 hours ago, arcadeshopper said:

download iso ((I suggest Xubuntu over regular ubuntu, it's more "windowslike" and less overhead)) https://xubuntu.org  (get the LTS version, stands for LONG TERM SUPPORT) 

 

Another good choice is Linux Mint Mate which is very windowslike. This is supposed to be "lighter" than most flavors of Linux. I got into an argument with one of the professors when I commented that my computer was running Linux. He insisted it was Windows because of the way it looks and acts. It took a long time to convince him. Installation is the same as arcadeshopper described. Depending on how full your hard drive is, you also have the option of installing it alongside Windows and you can select either Linux or Windows at the startup menu. I think all flavors of linux let you customize the way the desktop looks, so you can get it to look and act like a windows or macintosh computer.

Yet another variation on linux is the Zorin operating system. This is probably the most windows like of all. I have seen it and it looks good, but I am happy with Mint Mate and see no reason to change.

As a side note, one of the students was running Ubuntu, which has the "Unity" desktop. Many people do not like Unity, including me, and neither did Pat - at first... but after using it for a while he began to understand the thinking behind the design and came to really like it. 

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4 hours ago, senior_falcon said:

He insisted it was Windows because of the way it looks and acts. It took a long time to convince him. 

I hope he wasn't teaching computers... ;) Opening a terminal should have been enough... followed with uname -a if he still wasn't convinced. ;)

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Seconding @senior_falcon re Mint. Even the default cinnamon desktop, which supposedly requires a “lot” more resources (say 2GB RAM) has worked well on old hardware for me, and it’s very Windowslike, but way less hassle to keep up to date. 

I hate to hear of anyone having computer accessibility problems, but failing adapt to the modern web is just asking for trouble, even if someone is just accessing a few sites. Hackers and exploits are getting better and nastier all the time, and not keeping up is how you get your information stolen and equipment compromised. 

Anyone with internet access should be able to acquire an old laptop, a chromebook, or low end tablet. I would be happy to try to connect folks with resources if money is an issue — so long as they’re motivated to try. 

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7 hours ago, senior_falcon said:

I got into an argument with one of the professors when I commented that my computer was running Linux. He insisted it was Windows because of the way it looks and acts. It took a long time to convince him.

 

So this professor was either

- a hard core Linux user who is disgusted by comfort (With friends like these, who needs enemies?)

or

-  a Windows fan, trying to convince you to "use the original".

 

I am a long-term user of openSUSE, and I have always been wondering why it is so rarely suggested. There are obviously two reasons: the system management tool YaST (yet another setup tool) offers a user interface quite similar to Windows' system settings, and in earlier times, it interfered with hand-edited config files ("YaST is always smashing my config files!"), and SUSE's favorite desktop is KDE, which does have some similarities.

 

I mean, I'm usually known as someone using Linux in more occasions than may be reasonable, but I'd never say a Linux desktop must not look like Windows, even remotely.

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Getting back to the original question: I have noticed that the new forum is extremely slow at loading pages. Has anyone else seen this?

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4 minutes ago, senior_falcon said:

Getting back to the original question: I have noticed that the new forum is extremely slow at loading pages. Has anyone else seen this?

The only pages I've seen that have been consistently loading slowly for me is when I click on a specific forum, such as from the main forum index.  I've posted a question on the Invision forum to see if I can get some assistance with this.  It's likely that the configurations need to be tweaked a bit on the servers (web server, database server).  This new forum SHOULD overall be faster (significantly in places) than the old software, and Invision has spent much time doing performance-related work recently.  I'm confident I'll be able to get the forum running quite fast after a bit of work. 

 

Unfortunately, I won't be able to really dive into that until early next week, but just wanted to let you know I'm aware of it and it will be fixed.

 

 ..Al

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