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Bikerbob

Testing BBS software - ST specific

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Posted (edited)

Hey guys, many of you know me from the boards and also here on AA

 

I have knocked around running a BBS hell since I was 12.. but thats not why I am posting. 

 

I am a user of hardware, and I love to get old computers running for a purpose. Now I am looking at learning programming etc.. I did basic back in the day. But really what I am interested is getting to use my hardware for something that would be fun and on going. Now we have a ton of 8-bit bbs.. and I log in.. love em.. EMU on 8-bit is really great.. and allows people to EMU so much stuff accuratly. On the ST we have Hatari and STEEM.. and as far as I know neither of them are able to network  through an emulated AT command set on a windows PC. Hatari in fact does not have a Windows developer. 

 

Found an article https://breakintochat.com/blog/2012/12/13/telnet-to-bbs-within-hatari-emulator/ that uses a couple of programs.. and you will see in the comments a fellow got it to work for outgoing on a pc with windows.

 

I have to admit at the moment its not clear to me what I would have to change.. but what I would like to accomplish is this.. using this directory http://software.bbsdocumentary.com/ go through and test the software.. find something that people might enjoy using.. or something that just gives us something different than express.. I agree with Tillek, that the Atari BBS world does not need more of the same.

 

The one I am very interested in at the moment is called Foresight. It actually had networking between Foresight systems.. was mid-late 90s. Written in GFA Basic. A lot of the software REQUIRES a responsive modem.. or it will not continue.. now I have a modem.. just not hooked up to a land line.. and on REAL hardware I could test it.. but it would be a lot quicker and easier when playing with different programs to test on an EMU...

 

James

Edited by Bikerbob

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So to fwd my own topic.. 

 

Hatari - works best in Linux.. 

 

On a Windows machine I could run a VR Linux box.. and then try and run Hatari in that. Hatari needs to communicate with the serial device via an open file. Others seem to see this and know etc.. works.. tcpser4j seems to work in linux well and with a program socat you can create a link between the File Hatari needs to read and the tcper4j (modem) 

 

Now I also found a program Virtual Com Port - its freeware.. and as far as the windows device is concerned and any software its a real com port.  SO if I could configure TCper4j to work in windows 10 and see and use the comport created by VCP - I have communications for an old school term program.. now how do I get Hatari or STEEM to talk directly to the port.. OR how do I modify them to work with tcper4j - this last one I think.. would be easier.. but no one with either emulator seems to se networking like this as an interest.   Frustrating how far behind the ST is on this than the 8-bit.

 

James

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Well Vir Com Port was a bust, not really freeware.. OH well.. STEEM does seem to allow more outputs..  I did notice on a few of these virtural com port porgrams the ability to read and write to a file like Hatari wants.

 

I guess the first point of all of this is see if I can get TCPSERV4j working on a windows 10 machine..   then figure out how to get the emulator to talk to it.

 

James

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I've actually tried it a few times myself and gave up trying it on Windows.  I do have an old laptop that I had installed Linux on that I am going to try again with....

 

I think the real issue with running it on Windows is the way (or the difference in the way) that Linux and Windows let software access hardware.

 

In the *nix world, everything is basically a "file" which is basically what Hatari is looking for.  You can probably get it working in Windows, but I suspect you will have to drop some $$$.

 

I have been able to get TCPser working on my Win10, but then again, I actually have real com ports on this thing (8 of them, to be exact).

 

To be honest, I gave up and decided to just do my stuff on real hardware.  I have a CF AztecMonster in an external SCSI case, so I can just swap out cards with whatever setup I want to go with.

 

I only know one guy who actually was successful running a BBS through emulation, and he really didn't want to be anyone's Yoda concerning how he managed to get it done, suffice to say he said it was something of a custom hackjob that wasn't overly stable (which was part of why he didn't want to be burdened with people trying to ask him about it all the time).  That said though, what Kirkman put in his article should work as well on a Linux box as it did on his Mac.  Once I get some other projects out of the way... maybe I'll play with it again on Windows...

 

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No thats cool.. and maybe what I will do is use windows 10 VRbox.. run Ubuntu or whatever.. then run Hatari.. and do it that way.. its still on the windows pc.. just within a EMU to run the EMU :)

 

James

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I got a Qnap from a friend last night.. its not a super modern one though.. so great as a media server but not for a VR server.. but maybe it will allow me to put a common VR on the qnap and then access either at home or at work .. for those days when its slow and I want to test.

 

I also have a USR modem.. that I could hook up to my 4mb STFM and then test the software on that. I dont have mass storage for that machine yet though.. But once I get my VME lightning .. then I can use my COSMOSex and move it to the STFM. To run the BBS I dont need 16mhz and Blitter etc.. anyway.

 

 

James

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On 7/10/2019 at 12:09 PM, Bikerbob said:

Hey guys, many of you know me from the boards and also here on AA

 

I have knocked around running a BBS hell since I was 12.. but thats not why I am posting. 

 

I am a user of hardware, and I love to get old computers running for a purpose. Now I am looking at learning programming etc.. I did basic back in the day. But really what I am interested is getting to use my hardware for something that would be fun and on going. Now we have a ton of 8-bit bbs.. and I log in.. love em.. EMU on 8-bit is really great.. and allows people to EMU so much stuff accuratly. On the ST we have Hatari and STEEM.. and as far as I know neither of them are able to network  through an emulated AT command set on a windows PC. Hatari in fact does not have a Windows developer. 

 

Found an article https://breakintochat.com/blog/2012/12/13/telnet-to-bbs-within-hatari-emulator/ that uses a couple of programs.. and you will see in the comments a fellow got it to work for outgoing on a pc with windows.

 

I have to admit at the moment its not clear to me what I would have to change.. but what I would like to accomplish is this.. using this directory http://software.bbsdocumentary.com/ go through and test the software.. find something that people might enjoy using.. or something that just gives us something different than express.. I agree with Tillek, that the Atari BBS world does not need more of the same.

 

The one I am very interested in at the moment is called Foresight. It actually had networking between Foresight systems.. was mid-late 90s. Written in GFA Basic. A lot of the software REQUIRES a responsive modem.. or it will not continue.. now I have a modem.. just not hooked up to a land line.. and on REAL hardware I could test it.. but it would be a lot quicker and easier when playing with different programs to test on an EMU...

 

James

You wanna here some bad news: my contact here in town scrapped a Multiplexer the other day, I would have loved to have grabbed it, and yes I agree the ST is the way to go, and i have a lantronics device coming for it pretty soon, I have all but given up running a BBS on the 8 bit... oh well

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On 7/11/2019 at 1:04 PM, Bikerbob said:

I got a Qnap from a friend last night.. its not a super modern one though.. so great as a media server but not for a VR server.. but maybe it will allow me to put a common VR on the qnap and then access either at home or at work .. for those days when its slow and I want to test.

 

I also have a USR modem.. that I could hook up to my 4mb STFM and then test the software on that. I dont have mass storage for that machine yet though.. But once I get my VME lightning .. then I can use my COSMOSex and move it to the STFM. To run the BBS I dont need 16mhz and Blitter etc.. anyway.

 

 

James

Which CosmosEx do you have again?  I can move mine from machine to machine at will.

Are the new Lightnings available for order yet?  Need to pick up one more once they have the new design.  Just gonna tell you now, if you get the old version of the Lightning, I didn't enjoy installing it on my MSTE.  I got it installed... the machine works (haven't actually tried doing anything with it yet though).

 

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32 minutes ago, rcamp48 said:

You wanna here some bad news: my contact here in town scrapped a Multiplexer the other day, I would have loved to have grabbed it, and yes I agree the ST is the way to go, and i have a lantronics device coming for it pretty soon, I have all but given up running a BBS on the 8 bit... oh well 

That's really a shame.    I would love to get my hands on an 8-system setup.  Maybe someone will work on something like that instead of "yet another drive/storage emulator".

"Oh, but this one is blue and you can control it with your dishwasher!"

 

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7 minutes ago, Tillek said:

That's really a shame.    I would love to get my hands on an 8-system setup.  Maybe someone will work on something like that instead of "yet another drive/storage emulator".

"Oh, but this one is blue and you can control it with your dishwasher!"

 

Ya I have him on the lookout for another one and it was on the back of my mind when before he scrapped it, I could have asked him in hindsight and I would have got it for cheap. Oh well, and yes Tillek, I am at a tossup between running an 8 bit BBS or an ST BBS, but one thing is for sure , I want to do something that nobody has done before, and with me literally sitting on 8 systems, its confusing at times, the old question of 'What am I going to do today, 100 projects and so little time to do them in, I mean I have 12 hours a day to devote to Atari, I am retired, and not many users have that kind of time. And I do devote that much time to Atari, let me tell you, I have an Atari Portfolio with all of the hardware needed, and Atari 600xl that has been upgraded , an Atari Mega ST4 that I barely use now that the 8 Bit system has hooked me, 2 laptops, 2 desktops and a P233 tower that i use for a card reader for my Atari Portfolio, top it all off, I write software for all of those systems. Russ

 

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On 7/13/2019 at 1:29 PM, Tillek said:

Which CosmosEx do you have again?  I can move mine from machine to machine at will.

Are the new Lightnings available for order yet?  Need to pick up one more once they have the new design.  Just gonna tell you now, if you get the old version of the Lightning, I didn't enjoy installing it on my MSTE.  I got it installed... the machine works (haven't actually tried doing anything with it yet though).

 

Yes new Lightings.. and I am ordering 2.. one for a buddy. I dont think its the early version.. I have been told it has been updated. OH they are also coming out with a lighting you can put in ANY ST! kind of cool.  The microCosmosEX  stand alone outside the machine.. but you have to get in for the IKD so I tend not to move it to the ST.. (have to open the case) with the MSTE I just intercept the keyboard plug.

 

James

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On 7/13/2019 at 1:47 PM, rcamp48 said:

Ya I have him on the lookout for another one and it was on the back of my mind when before he scrapped it, I could have asked him in hindsight and I would have got it for cheap. Oh well, and yes Tillek, I am at a tossup between running an 8 bit BBS or an ST BBS, but one thing is for sure , I want to do something that nobody has done before, and with me literally sitting on 8 systems, its confusing at times, the old question of 'What am I going to do today, 100 projects and so little time to do them in, I mean I have 12 hours a day to devote to Atari, I am retired, and not many users have that kind of time. And I do devote that much time to Atari, let me tell you, I have an Atari Portfolio with all of the hardware needed, and Atari 600xl that has been upgraded , an Atari Mega ST4 that I barely use now that the 8 Bit system has hooked me, 2 laptops, 2 desktops and a P233 tower that i use for a card reader for my Atari Portfolio, top it all off, I write software for all of those systems. Russ

 

He was wrong , what he scrapped was NOT Multiplexers, can someone give me an idea of what a multiplexer is , ie; pictures, specs, etc? Don says he has RS232 switch boxes that can run up to 16 machines, is that what we are talking about here ? Or are we talking cards for the PC , PCI, ISA, etc..... Russ

 

PS: Get back to me before Thursday, that is when I am going over to get them.

 

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I am going to post this here as its a hot topic, has anyone got a real modem to work ether under Steem 3.2 or Steem SSE If so just what have I got to do to get Steem to recognise the modem ? I have tried everything including running Forem ST under Steem 3.2 It seems to see a modem but maybe my settings in Windows are wrong

 

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I’ve pondered trying RATSoft in an emulator.. if anyone has experience in attempting same please comment.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, doctor_x said:

I’ve pondered trying RATSoft in an emulator.. if anyone has experience in attempting same please comment.

Yes I have , the problem is the same wth anything hooked up to the serial ports, it will not recognise the modem , or even bring it online, only one light on the modem lights up when running either Forem ST, Flash etc, so it will be all the same. I am sure there is a solution,  I am not sure about a Lantronics device, I will try it tonight it just may work. Oh you are talking 8 Bit I just noticed, I have tried that a bit too , when I was doing was running modems under STEEM. I would say try Xformer 10 for 8 bit it is the latest, give it a shot, I will too..... Russ

 

Edited by rcamp48

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Ok.... sorry to play the heavy here, but this topic is getting off topic..... (and hey, I'm to blame a bit too).

 

But posting pictures of CF adapters and talking about hooking up tape drives to real hardware is off topic when the "topic" is testing BBS software on emulators.

 

Now I did move the post about the Ditto tape drive to actual hardware is fine... just not having anything to do with BBS software running on emulators.....

Wasn't sure what the CF adapter post was all about, so I deleted that one just because I really wasn't sure what the "title" of the new topic would be?  (So feel free to re-post it.... I just didn't get where you were going with it).

 

I do want to explain though... and I know I didn't make this really really clear, so that's on me... but the whole point of creating this club is to help consolidate information and make it easy to access for people interested in BBSing.  There are tons of topics on AtariAge and elsewhere that it can be so hard for new people to try to find the answers they're looking for... so one goal is to try to keep things organized.

 

So as I said, I moved the message about the tape drive, and I hope we can help Russ figure that out (I honestly never tried hooking something like that up to Atari hardware) and please feel free to repost about the CF adapter (just not in the BBS running on emulation topic) ;)

 

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Thanks, its my fault I thought it applied to backing up a BBS but I will repost in another area... you are right to do that Tillek.

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Has anyone recently got any BBS software to work with a modem on Steem, I can get Forem ST to run  and even recognise that there is a com port there but beyond that....

Russ

 

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Posting here, as this was my thread to start.. and I am doing some stuff.. trying with STEEM and Hatari.

 

I think I might have figured something out with Hatari with TCPser and a Null-modem program..   Might work.

 

Steem allows output to a file, or to a real serial port.. I now have 3 lantronix devices - UDS on here might work if I test on my older Pentium 4 machine running windows XP - But on the WIndows 10 machine I type this one, I still have not found anything to do it with STEEM.. we will see how the Hatari idea pans out. 

 

In the mean time I found this looking for stuff.

 

http://traveller.gxis.de/

 

Lots of BBS stuff on there.. in fact - if you read this is his BBS files section from back when the bbs was up and running.

 

James

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found this in a number of BBS related things..

 

WHAT is FZDS??  I have seen FSE  two way chat. protocols...  I cannot find any real information about them.

 

No idea what FZDS stands for itself.

 

James

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11 hours ago, Bikerbob said:

found this in a number of BBS related things..

 

WHAT is FZDS??  I have seen FSE  two way chat. protocols...  I cannot find any real information about them.

 

No idea what FZDS stands for itself.

 

James

 

Does FZDS stand for Freeze-Dried Software? For example, from your link above:

 

FSESHELL.ZIP 25977 Jul 26 1995

CMDSHELL V2.00 for FZDS_FSE - A command shell for Octopus BBS sysops who would like to use the Freeze Dried Full-Screen Editor. Also adds optional tagline capability. Freeware!

Edited by JohnPolka

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actually it was in the archive of Foresight BBS..  working on getting that running right now.. looks like it might be an interesting bbs.  I will have to move it to the ST to really test it though.. since I cannot get a EMU to work at the moment with the modem.

 

James

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6 hours ago, Bikerbob said:

actually it was in the archive of Foresight BBS..  working on getting that running right now.. looks like it might be an interesting bbs.  I will have to move it to the ST to really test it though.. since I cannot get a EMU to work at the moment with the modem.

 

James

 

Did you figure out what FZDS stands for? FZDS stands for Freeze-Dried Software? FZDS_FSE is the Freeze-Dried Full Screen Editor as I noted above.

 

-JP
 

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