Giles N Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 Living in Europe I first bought the PAL version, but some games were NTSC only, and since I had an Atari5200 (which never came out in Europe/PAL region), I bought an NTSC 7800.’ Any living in the US who uses the PAL 7800 console? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 No. though some here replace the Atari splash screen with the Asteroids game at startup with no game inserted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Correct there is even a kit you can purchase from Best Elect for this very purpose. Basically you replace the NTSC BIOS with the PAL BIOS that includes Asteroids. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sramirez2008 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 7 hours ago, -^Cro§Bow^- said: Correct there is even a kit you can purchase from Best Elect for this very purpose. Basically you replace the NTSC BIOS with the PAL BIOS that includes Asteroids. Asteroids is my favorite. Wish I would have known about this. I could have had you add this to my 7800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+-^CrossBow^- Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 35 minutes ago, sramirez2008 said: Asteroids is my favorite. Wish I would have known about this. I could have had you add this to my 7800. I've never had a client request it so I guess I never thought to mention it? You loose the rainbow startup screen with this bios and I believe it allows both signed and unsigned carts to work at that point so the encryption routine isn't used anymore to verify the games as NTSC with the PAL BIOS installed. I personally do NOT have any of my systems with the PAL BIOS but it isn't difficult to do and is the same process I did when I replaced the BIOS in my '87 original 7800 with Eckart's devos bios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+sramirez2008 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 I'll keep this in mind, since I have two other systems and may send you one of them in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+save2600 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 I would never change the bios of my consoles because I actually like the Atari startup screen. Plus, Asteroids is dirt common. Reminds me of the Jaguar's startup screen with the roar, spinning cube and "have you played Atari today" jingle. Add the CD unit and all that goes away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekthanatou Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 On 8/7/2019 at 3:56 PM, -^CrossBow^- said: I've never had a client request it so I guess I never thought to mention it? You loose the rainbow startup screen with this bios and I believe it allows both signed and unsigned carts to work at that point so the encryption routine isn't used anymore to verify the games as NTSC with the PAL BIOS installed. I personally do NOT have any of my systems with the PAL BIOS but it isn't difficult to do and is the same process I did when I replaced the BIOS in my '87 original 7800 with Eckart's devos bios. So, does this Best Electronics mod allow you to play both PAL and NTSC games? If so, I would be very interested in getting that mod. Alternatively, can one use a PAL 7800 on a TV made for use in the US? Thanks in advance! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 1 hour ago, ekthanatou said: So, does this Best Electronics mod allow you to play both PAL and NTSC games? If so, I would be very interested in getting that mod. Alternatively, can one use a PAL 7800 on a TV made for use in the US? Thanks in advance! It does not, all it does is allow you to play Asteroids without inserting a cart and removes the encryption check in the BIOS. PAL games won't even work in a stock NTSC 7800 because they'll fail the encryption check at boot. Even if you bypassed that, a good chunk of PAL games will either have severe graphical glitching or just won't work. You also can't use a PAL 7800 in the US unless you have a multisystem TV, or mod the system with AV or S-video out and use it with a PVM or other monitor that can take 50 Hz PAL video. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekthanatou Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 12 hours ago, ApolloBoy said: It does not, all it does is allow you to play Asteroids without inserting a cart and removes the encryption check in the BIOS. PAL games won't even work in a stock NTSC 7800 because they'll fail the encryption check at boot. Even if you bypassed that, a good chunk of PAL games will either have severe graphical glitching or just won't work. You also can't use a PAL 7800 in the US unless you have a multisystem TV, or mod the system with AV or S-video out and use it with a PVM or other monitor that can take 50 Hz PAL video. I'm a noob to all this, so bear with me. So, if you have a PAL 7800 and do the AV mod, how does that work on a modern HD style TV? Do you run into the same difficulty in compatibility? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SmittyB Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 16 minutes ago, ekthanatou said: So, if you have a PAL 7800 and do the AV mod, how does that work on a modern HD style TV? Do you run into the same difficulty in compatibility? The analogue signals that the 7800 produces regardless of whether it's sent over RF, composite, or S-Video follow either the NTSC or PAL standard depending on the region and so require a TV that can display a signal using the given standard. In PAL-land that's not so much of a problem as TVs here generally all support PAL, NTSC, and SECAM (I've never owned a TV that doesn't) but I understand that's not so much the case in NTSC territories. An RGB solution would be universal but we're not there yet. Atari did make an RGB 7800 for France (I'd guess to avoid dealing with SECAM specific TIA chips again) but all it does it convert the standard analogue signal (not very well) using a daughterboard slapped inside the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 1 hour ago, SmittyB said: An RGB solution would be universal but we're not there yet. Atari did make an RGB 7800 for France (I'd guess to avoid dealing with SECAM specific TIA chips again) but all it does it convert the standard analogue signal (not very well) using a daughterboard slapped inside the case. Tim Worthington (the creator of the NESRGB and 2600RGB) restarted work on the 7800RGB recently, I'll have to ask him how he's progressing on that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekthanatou Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 So, off topic but to my main point: What is the best way to get a hold of one of the rare games for NTSC? I'm most interested in, more or less in this order: Ikari Warriors Alien Brigade Ninja Golf Midnight Mutants I can find Ninja Golf and Midnight Mutants for NTSC, for ridiculous prices--but at least I have the option. But I can't find *ANY* Ikari or Alien Brigade. Of course, there are other options for Ikari (SNK arcade for modern consoles, NES, etc.), so that leaves Alien Brigade as the one game that is impossible to play, afaik. I see that AtariAge will make custom carts from Roms. What is the legality of using a ROM for an oop and unavailable game? I've read conflicting things online. I'm sure others have looked into all this. I found the thread here on the legality of ROMs for obsolete hardware to be somewhat helpful, but it still all seems fuzzy. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, ekthanatou said: So, off topic but to my main point: What is the best way to get a hold of one of the rare games for NTSC? I'm most interested in, more or less in this order: Ikari Warriors Alien Brigade Ninja Golf Midnight Mutants I can find Ninja Golf and Midnight Mutants for NTSC, for ridiculous prices--but at least I have the option. But I can't find *ANY* Ikari or Alien Brigade. Of course, there are other options for Ikari (SNK arcade for modern consoles, NES, etc.), so that leaves Alien Brigade as the one game that is impossible to play, afaik. I see that AtariAge will make custom carts from Roms. What is the legality of using a ROM for an oop and unavailable game? I've read conflicting things online. I'm sure others have looked into all this. I found the thread here on the legality of ROMs for obsolete hardware to be somewhat helpful, but it still all seems fuzzy. Thanks in advance! Honestly the best way is to ask around here, or wait for the right deal to come along. I got my loose copy of Alien Brigade for something like $20 six years ago on eBay, and that was largely because I happened to be at the right place at the right time. You just have to be patient sometimes. Also, the idea of AA making repros of rare 7800 games was brought up in this thread and Al has said that he'd much rather not do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekthanatou Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 8 minutes ago, ApolloBoy said: Honestly the best way is to ask around here, or wait for the right deal to come along. I got my loose copy of Alien Brigade for something like $20 six years ago on eBay, and that was largely because I happened to be at the right place at the right time. You just have to be patient sometimes. Also, the idea of AA making repros of rare 7800 games was brought up in this thread and Al has said that he'd much rather not do that. So, how would one go about asking here? Are there any buy/sell/trade threads? Just start a iso thread? I'm completely new to all this, so thanks for your patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 1 minute ago, ekthanatou said: So, how would one go about asking here? Are there any buy/sell/trade threads? Just start a iso thread? I'm completely new to all this, so thanks for your patience. https://atariage.com/forums/forum/46-wanted/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekthanatou Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, ApolloBoy said: https://atariage.com/forums/forum/46-wanted/ Great! Thanks! And, who is AI? I am looking at the other thread now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApolloBoy Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 1 minute ago, ekthanatou said: And, who is AI? @Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekthanatou Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 13 minutes ago, ApolloBoy said: @Albert Got it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekthanatou Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 So, when buying on eBay and the seller is unsure if a cart is PAL or NTSC, how can you tell the difference? Will they have different skus printed on the cart or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 5 hours ago, ekthanatou said: So, off topic but to my main point: What is the best way to get a hold of one of the rare games for NTSC? I'm most interested in, more or less in this order: Ikari Warriors Alien Brigade Ninja Golf Midnight Mutants No Alien Brigade, but as for the other three, if you just want to play them not collect original carts (like me), you might want to see if any of the buyers of this are willing to sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekthanatou Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, DrVenkman said: No Alien Brigade, but as for the other three, if you just want to play them not collect original carts (like me), you might want to see if any of the buyers of this are willing to sell. Nice! Thanks. *edit* Of course this comes back around to the question of the legitimacy of using the ROM in the first place. Unless this multi-cart was made with permission? Edited February 9, 2020 by ekthanatou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ekthanatou Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) On 2/8/2020 at 4:18 PM, ekthanatou said: So, how would one go about asking here? Are there any buy/sell/trade threads? Just start a iso thread? I'm completely new to all this, so thanks for your patience. As for waiting around, I'm not holding out a lot of hope these days for Alien Brigade or Ikari Warriors. I've been checking ebay every day for over a month, probably, and I don't know that I've seen a single NTSC Alien Brigade or Ikari. I'm not saying they don't exist. But finding one sure ain't easy. *edit* That is, unless you count this listing: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Atari-7800-Pro-System-Console-with-All-57-Games-Entire-Library-Complete/352940121077?hash=item522cdedbf5:g:xMMAAOSwf8FbnTvw lol Edited February 10, 2020 by ekthanatou Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayhem Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 I’m thinking of selling my 7800 originals but it wouldn’t be for as much as that heh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles N Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 (edited) PAL 7800 have tons of Alien Brigades, Ninja Golfs, Commandos, Midnight Mutants, Motor Psychos etc (1989-1990-releases), available for a fairly reasonble prive at ebay etc... ... these titles are much, much easier to obtain in PAL... (I cannot really notice any big difference in speed [ntsc -> pal] for the games mentioned above...) Edited February 19, 2020 by Giles N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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