EclaireXL Issues Thread

[+Larry]

This is a thread for discussing (and hopefully solving) general user issues with the EclaireXL.  It is not a thread for discussing 3D printing of cases.  Hopefully it will allow new users (like me) to get things working to our satisfaction sooner! 

 

[+Larry]

Note: I know this looks weird, but it happened when trying to remove the Altirra keyboard map info.   Issue: Keyboards?   At this time, we can't use an Atari keyboard, so we must rely on PC parts which come in a myriad of shapes and sizes. My initial attempt was a Logitech K520 wireless with a "pairable" receiver (a really nice keyboard). 2.4 GHz, I think. As best I can determine, it only partially works with the receiver plugged into either USB port on the EclaireXL (ECXL from here on). I'm presuming that the key map follows the Altirra "standard." (?)   Altirra (PC) key equivalents (from the Altirra HELP file)   ---> (Removed, since incorrect and caused some confusion.) <---   If you have a wireless keyboard, does it work well?  Do the function key equivalents work OK?  Any other issues? From the pictures I've looked at here, most folks have wired keyboards. Any issues with those? I'm buying a cheap wired keyboard today + have a PS2 to USB adapter arriving today, so that I can try a couple of older PS2 keyboards that I have here. (I even have an old IBM 9910 "click" keyboard!)   If I'm just pressing the wrong keys that would be really easy to fix, but I suspect that is not the case.   Feel free to post pictures, especially if you have found a keyboard that you really like!   -Larry   EDIT: Through experimentation, found that F9 and F10 are Warm Start and Cold Start, respectively. F11 brings up the EclaireXL settings menu. F12 brings up a Devices menu.   EDIT-2: Found some really useful info here including the all-important keyboard map:   http://www.64kib.com/redmine/projects/eclairexl/documents

 

 

 

[Roydea6]

ONN wireless keyboard.

[+Larry]

22 minutes ago, rdea6 said:

ONN wireless keyboard.

 

Works well?  I see only one at Amazon. 

 

Related question -- how do you use the Atari function keys? F5-F8?

 

I haven't been able to get the Ultimate menu screen up, yet (which uses HELP at boot or Help + Reset, IIRC.)

 

[foft]

Usb keyboards can take longer to init than the power on boot. You can do a full hard reset with f10, once the usb keyboard is initialised. Eg I used f10 + f8 to boot with option.

 

The Altirra keyboard map is not used at all, see the links I posted in the other thread for the layout + explanation.

 

Panos designed a pcb to use Atari keyboards and I think got some made? I’m not sure if he ever tried populating any. I can easily expose the pokey keyboard scan pins on the expansion if needed.

 

I think it’d be best to get this stuff up on the wiki, where it’s stale/incomplete. Anyone with a login can do this (+ fact check here with me). Let me know if you want a login (pm).

[TheMontezuma]

Is the EclaireXL keyboard layout identical to the atari 800 core's layout for DE1 and MIST?

[foft]

12 minutes ago, TheMontezuma said:

Is the EclaireXL keyboard layout identical to the atari 800 core's layout for DE1 and MIST?

Yes. Though there is also a feature for US keyboards that shifts some arrow keys around (Actually that is now on mist too).

Edited August 1, 2019 by foft

[+Firedawg]

Larry, I'm currently using a Logitech k400r USB wireless keyboard.   Using the mapping layout that is provided in the Atari 800 FPGA Manual I found that the keyboard does correspond over with the additional usage of a function key [FN] to activate F1-F12.  I have ordered the keyboard overlays from 4Keyboard.com to keep me from hunting and pecking;)

 

[+Larry]

Nice looking keyboard!  I've found several that I like on Amazon, and pretty sure I saw your model there, too.

 

So to make sure I understand, you have to press and hold FN while pressing F1-F12?

 

I think that I've been looking for something that isn't in the ECXL -- namely the Ultimate 1MB menu.  I've concluded that what is there is a work-alike.  4 Profiles (i.e. 4 OS?), and the memory models selection from 64K to 1MB.

 

Lots to learn about this!

[NISMOPC]

14 minutes ago, Larry said:

Nice looking keyboard!  I've found several that I like on Amazon, and pretty sure I saw your model there, too.

I ordered this one off Amazon $29.99. Velocifer USB TKL78 and the ATARI non-transparent key overlays. Not a fan of the mini chicklet style keyboards.

 

[TheMontezuma]

The following inexpensive keyboard works with MIST atari800 core (and hopefully also with EclaireXL):

 

[+Firedawg]

20 minutes ago, Larry said:

Nice looking keyboard!  I've found several that I like on Amazon, and pretty sure I saw your model there, too.

 

So to make sure I understand, you have to press and hold FN while pressing F1-F12?

 

I think that I've been looking for something that isn't in the ECXL -- namely the Ultimate 1MB menu.  I've concluded that what is there is a work-alike.  4 Profiles (i.e. 4 OS?), and the memory models selection from 64K to 1MB.

 

Lots to learn about this!

That is correct on using the [FN] key to activate the F1-F12, which adds another key to be pressed, but it is desktop real estate friendly at 5.5"x14".  Priced at $20 it is wallet friendly too;)  I multi-task my desktop and having a huge keyboard(s) takes up too much space.

 

[+Larry]

11 minutes ago, NISMOPC said:

I ordered this one off Amazon $29.99. Velocifer USB TKL78 and the ATARI non-transparent key overlays. Not a fan of the mini chicklet style keyboards.

(snip...)

 

Yes, I saw that model, too and saved it to my wish list.  I'm in the same boat -- need to take up as little desk real estate as possible and still be able to type comfortably.

[NISMOPC]

As I wait patiently for my EclaireXL to arrive, is there anywhere that provides the specifications of the board itself as in the size (width, length and approx height)? I searched a few places and was unable to locate these specs.

[toddtmw]

2 hours ago, NISMOPC said:

I ordered this one off Amazon $29.99. Velocifer USB TKL78 and the ATARI non-transparent key overlays. Not a fan of the mini chicklet style keyboards.

 

I looked at one like this on Amazon and the keys were backlit blue. Given I am going to put opaque stickers on it, I was concerned that would look weird. I ordered a chicklet wireless one and am charging it now. Once I get it charged, I will post whether (and how well) it works.

 

Thank you.

[NISMOPC]

1 minute ago, toddtmw said:

I looked at one like this on Amazon and the keys were backlit blue. Given I am going to put opaque stickers on it, I was concerned that would look weird. I ordered a chicklet wireless one and am charging it now. Once I get it charged, I will post whether (and how well) it works.

 

Thank you.

I was concerned about that as well, but a few searches and videos later, I find that the light can be turned off (and more then likely will be my first thing to do).

[toddtmw]

22 minutes ago, NISMOPC said:

As I wait patiently for my EclaireXL to arrive, is there anywhere that provides the specifications of the board itself as in the size (width, length and approx height)? I searched a few places and was unable to locate these specs.

@wt808, what specs did you use to create the cases? (I know we're not supposed to mention cases, but he created cases using specs so...

[+Larry]

Approximately...

 

L 6-1/2" max

W 5-3/4" max

H 7/8" (including the standoffs; 3/4" without standoffs -- which includes the retaining nuts on the back of the board.)

[toddtmw]

I added a Q to the FAQ about keyboard layout and linked to the keyboard layout page and then added keyboard mapping tables to the bottom of the page and noted how to determine which mapping to use, based on the layout of your keyboard.

 

I did run into one issue that will impact anyone who wants a minimalist keyboard. The Atari Break key is mapped to Pause/Break on the Windows keyboard. All of the small keyboards listed above (along with the one I just bought) do not have that key.

 

@foft, would it be possible to request a map change for this? The tilda key looks awfully lonely up there and does not appear to be mapped to anything else...

Anyway, the FAQ is here:

http://www.64kib.com/redmine/projects/eclairexl/wiki/Faq

 

There really are not many Q's. If people want to add them, I would be happy to start gathering information and publishing answers to them.

 

Thanks!

 

Todd

[NISMOPC]

2 hours ago, toddtmw said:

I did run into one issue that will impact anyone who wants a minimalist keyboard. The Atari Break key is mapped to Pause/Break on the Windows keyboard. All of the small keyboards listed above (along with the one I just bought) do not have that key.

 

@foft, would it be possible to request a map change for this? The tilda key looks awfully lonely up there and does not appear to be mapped to anything else...

Well that sucks. Do any of these combinations work?

 

Keyboards without Break key

Compact and notebook keyboards often do not have a dedicated Pause/Break key.

These may use the following substitutes for Break:

• Ctrl+Fn+F11 or Fn+B or Fn+Ctrl+B on certain Lenovo laptops.
• Ctrl+Fn+B or Fn+B on certain Dell laptops.
• Fn+Esc on Samsung.
• Ctrl+Fn+⇧ Shift on certain HP laptops.
• Fn+R on certain HP laptops.

Substitutes for Pause:

• Fn+P or Fn+Ctrl+P or Fn+Alt+P on certain Lenovo laptops.
• Fn+B on certain Dell laptops.
• Fn+⇧ Shift on certain HP laptops.
• Fn+W on certain HP laptops.

Apple keyboards do not have the Pause/Break key, as Mac OS X does not use it.

For some Dell laptops without a Break key press the ALT+Space bar and select "Interrupt". 

[NISMOPC]

I also noticed in above listing of key mappings from the OP this:

 

Break

F7/Pause

 

So, is it possible the F7 is already mapped and you just need to add it to your FAQ ?!

[toddtmw]

2 minutes ago, NISMOPC said:

I also noticed in above listing of key mappings from the OP this:

 

Break

F7/Pause

 

So, is it possible the F7 is already mapped and you just need to add it to your FAQ ?!

F7 is Select. So it cannot be break. 

 

That listing in the OP is the list of key maps from the Altirra Atari emulator for Windows. That app has nothing to do with ExlaireXL. 

 

Todd

[NISMOPC]

1 hour ago, toddtmw said:

F7 is Select. So it cannot be break. 

 

That listing in the OP is the list of key maps from the Altirra Atari emulator for Windows. That app has nothing to do with ExlaireXL. 

 

Todd

OK. Just reread. Oops.

 

New technology takes away all the fun. No Break/Pause key sucks. Now to decide if I should return it (Velocifire tkl78) once it comes or wait to see if eclaire xl can be updated to allow custom mappings.

Edited August 2, 2019 by NISMOPC

[TheMontezuma]

Different key mappings is a pitty.

Neither of the projects (Altirra/Eclaire) supports custom key mapping, so I ended up with two stickers per key:

 

 

If you also consider AKI and TK-II with their own key mappings and you need for every project a dedicated keyboard.

 

[wt808]

10 hours ago, toddtmw said:

@wt808, what specs did you use to create the cases? (I know we're not supposed to mention cases, but he created cases using specs so...

I downloaded the STL of foft's case to figure out the port component sizes and hole locations, and the test print photos that you and Gandor posted for the final fit.