Jeffrey Worley Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 (edited) I've installed the UAV in my 800xl and have vertical banding still on composite. I was hoping to clean the composite output up enough not to bother with lume and chrome, since I have had no luck connecting those to my TV. If I connect LUME to the composite input of my TV I get a very bright and color wierd display that is useable but not very attractive. How do I connect separate luma and chroma to a tv that has no svideo and no separate lume/chrome inputs (ala the Commodore 1802 monitor). THere is a dearth of information on the web for this specific problem. Am I on the right track if I merge the luma and chroma outputs of my 800xl into a single RCA plug and stick that in the Composite input of my tv? Doesn't this defeat the purpose of having separate color and luminance signals? How is this better than composite video output from the machine? Why does my Luma signal seem to have the audio embedded in it still? I thought the signals were separate. I have a y cable on order to try merging the signals with. I wanted to use that instead of soldering on my xl. Best, jeff Edited August 6, 2019 by Technoid Mutant Typos, incomplete post. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rybags Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Joining luma + chroma is a step backwards in video quality. A big reason for S-Video was that the seperation of signals prevents certain luma modulations being interpreted as colour information. Getting component/YPbPr - I don't think UAV can do that. The Sophia upgrade converts to RGB which is close, though I'm not sure it has a setting or version to allow for component. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulderr Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 The 800XL has composite output already without the UAV board. However, the UAV board has a better Composite output. The S-Video is separate all together. If you are using a TV without S- video, get a TV with S-Video. Preferably a CRT. You can internally disconnect the Composite before it gets to the pins on the back of the standard video connector on the 800xl that way you don't have to cut new holes and can use original connector. Audio is pulled from a point right next to where you can tie into the line for Composite on the board. If you have audio on your S-Video line you have done something wrong. If you are not going to use a TV with S-video input then leave the S-Video outputs on the UAV alone. Again, get a TV with s-video. It is way better. Way way better. People will give you a free TV. My suggestion is a JVC D-Series if you see one pop up near you. Grab it. They are fantastic. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulderr Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 If Component is what you are after I would do what Rybags suggests and get the Sopfia board. It will do RGB. Then you can use a converter to go to Component. If you are in the US, you will likely not have a TV with RGB unless you have a PVM or BVM. If you have one of those you can use S-Video now. I S-Video mod all my old game systems and computers if possible. I have put the UAV board in my Atari 2600, 5200 and 7800's. I plan to do the Atari 400, 800XL and 1200XL soon. All for using S-Video. Then I modded my Commodore 1702 to have a Standard S-Video plug along with the separate Chroma and Luma inputs. The video quality compared to RF is astounding. Also, if you are using an LCD or newer type TV I again highly suggest you find a good CRT. If you can get a good free or very cheap TV with S-video non-HD era that will be best for the 240p without lag. If you can find a Commadore 1702 or the 1802 get it and use that. They are freaking fantastic and will accept most of the signals you throw at them with ease. Plus is adjustable from the front controls like no other consumer TVs. Fantastic!!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Sophia already puts out component. Just need to change its jumper from RGB to component. Just to be clear... the UAV won't change the original composite or luma and chroma coming out of the original DIN video jack. Not unless you do some modifications that eliminate the stock video signal connections and then replace them with what comes out of the UAV's green terminal block. Of course you can have both the stock and UAV video if you connect separate jacks from the UAV and leave your Atari's original stuff alone. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Worley Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 Duh, as to audio, it is not embedded anywhere. I had the audio plug in and was tired and came to an odd conclusion. I DID manage to reduce vertical banding and pixel creep reliably yesterday by cutting the ground wire on the composite line to my TV. I did this on the cable of course, not the board. I can give screenshots if you like, but this is really significant in my case and might be something to try for others. Cutting that ground wire gave me the UAV quality I was hoping for, well, I was hoping to remove the vertical banding entirely but composite on the Hong Kong 800xl is notoriously bad. I'm happy. I did test combining the chrome and luma signals and got an inferior signal to the composite output, so it is a real step backwards. I have some splitters in the mail that will give me the ability to test different combinations with greater repeatability. The TV I'm using is a modern flat panel SCEPTER 24". ** TNM ** 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 I don't understand why you were trying to combine the luma and chroma in an attempt to create a composite signal, when the UAV already has an independent composite output of its own? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Worley Posted August 8, 2019 Author Share Posted August 8, 2019 I really wanted to use the separate chroma and luma, the luma alone via the composite jack on my tv gives such a stellar picture that I wanted to use it. Unfortunately, my tv doesn't have an SVideo jack. The manual for the UAV, on page 16, step 9. says, "Remember to combine Chroma & Luma output at the monitor if not using an external connector". So I tried it. It didn't make sense to me either. Removing the ground from my composite line really helped a lot. I still have vertical banding but it is much improved with the UAV. My video capture card sucks, makes the video look horrible, it magnifies the problem all out of proportion, but here's three screenshots through the capture board and one photograph taken with my cellphone: ** TNM ** 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACML Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) Have you thought about using HDMI? Buy a $23 S-Video to HDMI upscaler and you get clean sharp Y/C (S-video) in 720p or 1080p. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004UNYX9M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 You can get a great Atari S-Video monitor cable for $12 at 8-bit Classics https://www.8bitclassics.com/product/atari-xlxe-5-pin-din-to-s-video-composite-av-cable/ Edited August 8, 2019 by ACML Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Deep banding of that nature looks like a serious impedance/and lousy ground issue... try different cables and wires... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 It's worth trying a different TV: I had a (quite decent at the time) Samsung 19" TV which made s-video from the A8 look pretty much as bad as those screenshots. Bought an LG and the issue went away. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nezgar Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 On 8/7/2019 at 8:47 PM, Technoid Mutant said: The manual for the UAV, on page 16, step 9. says, "Remember to combine Chroma & Luma output at the monitor if not using an external connector". I think that was intended for a scenario like a Commodore 1702 monitor, where the luma and chroma inputs are broken out to 2 independant RCA jacks. Both need to be connected to get a colour picture. A standard S-video jack combines both signals with more pins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Worley Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 I used to lust after the 1802, had a 1702 for awhile, but mostly I used color tv's as a kid with my 130xe. The Xe had pretty decent video, especially compared to this Hong Kong 800xl. My first video cable, I made and it works beautifully on my 800 (not xl). I bought one from Amazon that is professional and very nice, but it did not improve the video on my XL one iota. The UAV did considerably, but I still have the vertical banding. With just luma hooked to my tv's composite output I have a really crisp image, not perfect, but, here's a screenshot (through my not so great USB video board which I'm using only to get the screenshots for this message: Remember, these images are through my sucky video capture card, the image on my tv is much better. The monochrome image is gotten by plugging the Luma output of my XL into the composite in of my TV and then connecting the chroma output on the Atari to Ground. The 'color' image is the Luma plugged into the composite in of my TV without grounding the Chroma output on the Atari. What I get here is represented as an overdriven composite signal. It is a lot clearer, but the colors are flaky because, well, that's not what the luma is for.... Anyway, here you are. BTW, Check out my new post, new subject. Don't want to let the cat out of the bag here. ** TNM ** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 Unless I missed it, can you please post some pictures of your UAV installation showing all the video wiring coming from the UAV out to where you are connecting your video cables to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle22 Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 On 8/8/2019 at 3:25 PM, flashjazzcat said: It's worth trying a different TV: I had a (quite decent at the time) Samsung 19" TV which made s-video from the A8 look pretty much as bad as those screenshots. Bought an LG and the issue went away. I used a Sharp Aquos connected S-Video to the original 800, with original video circuits. It was a better quality picture than the Gateway 24" monitor I am using now. No banding on the Sharp, slight banding on the Gateway. I keep the Gateway because it also has HDMI input for my FireStick. (But, sadly, it has NO sound). I use an Altec-Lansing BT speaker for sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Worley Posted August 10, 2019 Author Share Posted August 10, 2019 On 8/8/2019 at 10:36 PM, mytek said: Unless I missed it, can you please post some pictures of your UAV installation showing all the video wiring coming from the UAV out to where you are connecting your video cables to. Here they are. You are right by the way, the TV I have doesn't display as well as the Samsung on my workbench, but the difference is a matter of degree. The banding is present no matter what. I'm pretty happy with it as it is, but my XE of old had better video. Best, Jeff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 Its a little difficult to tell by looking at the pictures, but it almost appears that the original video circuits of the 800XL might still be connected. When I get a chance tomorrow, I'll have to look at the schematics to be sure, but I suspect that those two ferrite chokes need to either be desoldered, or clipped and lifted on one end. If you still have the original video circuits paralleled with the UAV connections I suspect you'll get all kinds of interference, and that might be the explanation for the banding you are seeing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 5 hours ago, mytek said: Its a little difficult to tell by looking at the pictures, but it almost appears that the original video circuits of the 800XL might still be connected. When I get a chance tomorrow, I'll have to look at the schematics to be sure, but I suspect that those two ferrite chokes need to either be desoldered, or clipped and lifted on one end. If you still have the original video circuits paralleled with the UAV connections I suspect you'll get all kinds of interference, and that might be the explanation for the banding you are seeing. Yes, exactly. I just checked my photos of an 800XL of my own (done according to the instructions in Bryan’s original UAV (rev C) thread. The two ferrite chokes are clipped and lifted on one end. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 (edited) this has been covered before, the ferrite chokes are to have the legs lifted on the atari's video circuit side and the wire soldered to them so the choke are in use for the uav signal out. Currently they are desoldered in reverse and not being used and actually have a better chance of being broadcast towers instead. You really want to keep noise generating circuit board add-ons away from the uav, route the wires so that the are not right next to or up against the uav or noise generators like the rf modulator leads. Shielding also helps. other components that have long leads attached to patch or repair a hack or mistake should be made short as possible. We want to eliminate as many antennae as possible, and still keep the chokes inline keeping noise out of the picture not only on output but the return. I'd take the time to insulate your sio2usb and place in above the chips near the sio port positioned over the ground plane. This will keep it from accidents and might make your pbi usable and provide some strain relief so it doesn't get yanked. can the big snake be re-routed below the uav? it also wouldn't hurt to at least put the bottom shielding back on the Atari. I really can't see everything clearly from the pictures and need to locate my better pair of glasses! Edited August 10, 2019 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 The ferrite chokes appear to have been rotated 180 degrees and have only the front (now back) legs connected. You can see the solder mask which would normally be hidden by the two components. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 (edited) I can't tell which wire is which out of the header to see if they might be reversed/mixed up. can someone with better eyes confirm what's what. Edited August 10, 2019 by _The Doctor__ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 58 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: The ferrite chokes appear to have been rotated 180 degrees and have only the front (now back) legs connected. You can see the solder mask which would normally be hidden by the two components. Yep I see that now. At first glance the white silkscreen lines looked like traces. So yes the original video outputs have been disabled which is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashjazzcat Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 I meant silkscreen, BTW: not solder mask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mytek Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, flashjazzcat said: I meant silkscreen, BTW: not solder mask. That's what I thought you did say, funny how the brain filters things out . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Worley Posted August 15, 2019 Author Share Posted August 15, 2019 Ah Ha! Thanks guys. I DID lift the rearward legs of the ferrite cores and solder the uav output directly to the pads thus vacated. I'll put those legs back in, lift the ones nearer the uav and solder my wires to those lifted legs of the cores and see if I get improvement. It is pretty good as it is. Best, Jeff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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