rcamp48 Posted August 23, 2019 Share Posted August 23, 2019 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share Posted August 24, 2019 Question: will the above work with my 600XL upgraded to 64 K or do I need to put in the 512 meg expansion that I am getting in the mail? Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) You want 128K or more for things to work comfortably, in the white envelope is the manual? Edited August 24, 2019 by _The Doctor__ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share Posted August 24, 2019 No manual with it.... I wish I had one but I could print one off Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathy Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 Hello guys As far as I know, BASICXE will work with non-upgraded computers. Only when you enter "EXTEND" will it use extended memory. Sincerely Mathy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 which is the whole point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share Posted August 24, 2019 I am putting in a 512 K memory upgrade as soon as I get it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted August 24, 2019 Share Posted August 24, 2019 I've been using BXE since it came out, and it does need 64K to use with the extended statements and math pack, but so far as using the "EXTEND" command to put the program in the 2nd 64K, leaving the first 64K (free ram) for use with strings and arrays etc., it is pretty unlikely that you will ever need it. I've used it a couple of times in all these years in order to get the maximum space for string arrays (one of BASIC XE's nicest features). 128K is the most BXE will use. If you put the file BASICXE.OSS on your boot disk, then the cartridge will load the extra commands and math pack into memory. If you do not, then essentially what you have is BASIC XL. BXE will not run on an original 800, while BXL will. Here was a good review from Antic: https://www.atarimagazines.com/v4n9/basicxe.html Congratulations on your find! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share Posted August 24, 2019 Thanks Larry, is it compatible with Atari Basic, I have several programs written in Atari Basic I may be able to use it a bit more with my BBS screen creator, ie: same type of read access to disk or better? I have yet to try it...... Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 It is a superset of Atari Basic. Occasionally a minor tweak may be necessary, but most of those are taken care of by using the "SET" command shown in the manual. It is even mostly token compatible with Turbo Basic. TBXL is very slightly faster, but in most instances, you would never notice the difference. There is a "FIND" subroutine that can be added as high line numbers that makes debugging programs easier. I think it was written for BXL, but IIRC, it does work with BXE. I'll look for it and post it, assuming that I find it. Handy to have, when you need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 I found my OSS newsletters, and here is a link to them at the wiki: https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Newsletters FINDREP (and docs) are in the Winter 1987 edition. Just boot the disk with BXE/BXL, and the newsletter program will autoload. The docs are listed in the Program Examples section. The program is LISTed in the directory. Note that the disk does not have a DUP.SYS. It is a small dos that OSS used just to provide minimal disk access. -Larry 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faicuai Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 On 8/24/2019 at 9:02 AM, Larry said: I've been using BXE since it came out, and it does need 64K to use with the extended statements and math pack, but so far as using the "EXTEND" command to put the program in the 2nd 64K, leaving the first 64K (free ram) for use with strings and arrays etc., it is pretty unlikely that you will ever need it. I've used it a couple of times in all these years in order to get the maximum space for string arrays (one of BASIC XE's nicest features). 128K is the most BXE will use. If you put the file BASICXE.OSS on your boot disk, then the cartridge will load the extra commands and math pack into memory. If you do not, then essentially what you have is BASIC XL. BXE will not run on an original 800, while BXL will. Here was a good review from Antic: https://www.atarimagazines.com/v4n9/basicxe.html Congratulations on your find! Sorry for bumping this one, but... in reality, BasicXE requires Extensions disk to be loaded from the get go, in order to access its real potential... and this is VERY different than Basic XL. As a very simple example, if I just try adding the "Fast" directive under BasicXE (which is a fundamental performance enhancement and one of the key reasons to rely on these advanced OSS Basics), it will puke out an error, unless you LOAD the extensions disk at boot time. Basic XL, on the contrary, does not require the Extensions disk to be loaded, in order to issue "Fast" command. This feature, combined with the fact that it will (wisely) leverage the OS Floating-Point pack (thus always improvable), clearly suggests that Basic-XL could outperform BasicXE with lower system requirements. In short, it seems to me at this point, that the game-in-town (just performance-wise) may not be BasicXE but, instead... BasicXL (!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcamp48 Posted September 4, 2019 Author Share Posted September 4, 2019 Well I now have 512 K in my 600XL, and tried to use EXTEND with the extensions disk and got a NO EXTENDED MEMORY ERROR , is this because it already uses extended memory, basicall Y want to get Forem XE working and switch to Forem XE on my BBS, then I can really customise the BBS like I did back in 1989, I may run a second BBS until I transition from Forem ST to Forem XE, what do you think , Tiillek ? should I switch or keep with what I have got, Forem XE might be a good way to go exspecially with my new AtariMax APE board, I may be able to get further than 9 message bases, and I will copy all of the info from the ST to the 8 Bit, I like the 8 Bit BBS programs better anyways , I do have a copy of Forem XE Professional, it has beeen released into the public domain, I think I uploaded it here, as for online games, is it as compatable? As for making new logins with the 8 Bit , I only have 5 users so I can enter all of the details , etc and make a smooth transition to Forem XE, both will be running for a month to see which is better, and I WILL dedicate more time to the BBS just to make it better than before. Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) Well Russ, congrats on the Base XE.. I was going to look into that myself but found that XE does work work with the OSS bios extension on the U1mb.. so I would need a real cart. I do not have XE or a 5 in 1.. so I cannot go there at the moment. Let me know please if you decide to do this.. I have been looking into putting up something different and Unique - no one was running 8-bit forem.. so I was going to go that way.. but not if you are. As for your passion to continue to make bigger and better.. I really think you should just focus on working - and well done. NO ONE is interested in 9 message bases now.. let alone more. All those games you seem to be all excited about.. 1 - 2 people in the community play them now.. thats it. I have been calling bbs' faithfully for 3+ years now.. and I have NEVER played a game - besides starting one and thinking.. this is a waist of time. My favorite is SFHQ.. because it is colourful, the menus are great, it works well, and its unique. Many of the others are a close 2nd. I HATE Carina. But Mousenet for example has done wonders with regular Express! 1.0 If you are not going to do the Forem ST.. please pass it on to me, since you got it working!! and I will work on that. Since you are the only Forem ST board James Edited September 5, 2019 by Bikerbob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) Can an UnoCart run OSS carts correctly? Are there other devices that can? My goal is basic XE.. what ways besides buying an orginal.. which does not seem to be happening - see ebay. can you get a proper Basic XE???? James PS .. just did some more searching and video watching.. seems the Ultimate cart is the way to go.. it will do ANY cart.. so I have my Side2 for HDD and then get a Ultimate for CAR: .. but I guess then the drag is I need another HDD solution for the machine using the Ultimate? Or can the Ultimate use all that space as a big drive emu yet? Edited September 5, 2019 by Bikerbob ult cart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
high voltage Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) On 8/24/2019 at 2:56 AM, rcamp48 said: No manual with it.... I wish I had one but I could print one off Manual on Atarimania: http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-400-800-xl-xe-basic-xe_12509.html Edited September 5, 2019 by high voltage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikerbob Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, high voltage said: Manual on Atarimania: http://www.atarimania.com/utility-atari-400-800-xl-xe-basic-xe_12509.html Had that - thats a dump of the cart.. but a supported cartridge based (or bios level) hardware device is needed to use the BIN and there are issues using the extensions with some of those solutions for OSS carts. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 AVG cart works very well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 On 9/4/2019 at 2:53 PM, rcamp48 said: Well I now have 512 K in my 600XL, and tried to use EXTEND with the extensions disk and got a NO EXTENDED MEMORY ERROR , is this because it already uses extended memory, basicall Y want to get Forem XE working and switch to Forem XE on my BBS, then I can really customise the BBS like I did back in 1989, I may run a second BBS until I transition from Forem ST to Forem XE, what do you think , Tiillek ? should I switch or keep with what I have got, Forem XE might be a good way to go exspecially with my new AtariMax APE board, I may be able to get further than 9 message bases, and I will copy all of the info from the ST to the 8 Bit, I like the 8 Bit BBS programs better anyways , I do have a copy of Forem XE Professional, it has beeen released into the public domain, I think I uploaded it here, as for online games, is it as compatable? As for making new logins with the 8 Bit , I only have 5 users so I can enter all of the details , etc and make a smooth transition to Forem XE, both will be running for a month to see which is better, and I WILL dedicate more time to the BBS just to make it better than before. Russ Didn't see this until tonight. Can you be more specific about the failure with EXTEND? What is your 512k upgrade, and have you checked that it is working properly? Are you using a Dos that sets up a ramdisk or something else that is using the extended memory before BXE tried to use it? IIRC, BXE must use the first 64k of extra ram -- the "130 XE ram". Are you using an Atari 2.0-type Dos or a Sparta type? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 If using BXE nothing can be in the normal 4 XE banks for the most part if you want to use it as intended. So a normal XE is useless under Sparta X in current form if you want extended commands and fast mode... With a little extra memory it's all good again under BXE 4.2... BXL doesn't get along with the MIO... which is bad if you want a BBS, I'm not going to test for other PBI device dead ends as that one is big enough to disqualify it IMHO.... A shame because I find it a very capable basic.. If BXE would allow FAST mode without extend or BXL wouldn't tick off the MIO the world would be a better place. I guess I'll search out more BXL builds and see what comes up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted September 13, 2019 Share Posted September 13, 2019 EXTEND is not needed for FAST, but the extension package must be loaded at boot time (BASICXE.OSS). That only means that BXE uses the XL ram-under-rom memory and inserts its math pack. I just tried my BXE cart in my Ultimate 1MB (320K Rambo setting) using MyDos 4.55. Everything cooperates. Ramdisk, extensions, EXTEND command, FAST (with and without EXTEND). It's all good here. Everything also works fine in an Antonia-4MB expanded 600XL. BTW... BXL doesn't work with the MIO? That seems really odd. Can you describe what fails? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted September 14, 2019 Share Posted September 14, 2019 in BXE the extension package is needed for FAST. With SDX you need 4 free blocks, so with X I use 320kXE and BXE for complete function. I haven't gotten around it. Your using MyDos and a ram expansion so that gets around the issue... Sure can, BXL hits something with the MIO attached that causes the screen to black out (other reported difficulties in the past).... I'll be double checking with some of the cart solutions out there to see how each fair (Atarimax, mega, Ultimate, AVG etc). I've tried only 2 BXL revisions with the same result. Never really dug into it as we just used BXE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Larry Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 I'm curious about this. I used an MIO for years and with BXL a lot of the time, but I don't remember this problem. (OK, I'm almost 75, so that might affect the remembering part! ) Is it just certain programs? I do remember programs that would run under Atari Basic, but had issues with BXL and had to be tweaked. And I should ask -- was the problem with an original MIO and BXL cart? Maybe with Sparta? -Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_The Doctor__ Posted September 15, 2019 Share Posted September 15, 2019 interestingly it appears to be an issue depending on what Sparta your using and the config (as usual) but more over, I was using AVG cart with images of 1.02 and 1.03... The problem is with both of the AVG cart and these two images.... I tried a real cartridge and it works when properly config'd then I tried an Ultimate cartridge with 1.03 with 3.2d and it worked, I'll get around to SDX tonight... and some other versions... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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