christo930 Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 On 4/13/2020 at 2:57 AM, kiwilove said: I agree - like most here, I'd expect - would be happy with any version that delivers anything close to 80% or 90% of what the coin-op delivers. It takes a Melody board to enable a decent conversion for the 2600 (there's no denying the amount of time and trouble that went into this effort nonetheless) - and I wouldn't want a VBXE version for the 8-bit Atari's (which very few have) when a decent version can be done for the standard hardware (without hardware assist). Why we did miss out entirely on a conversion - back in the day - a guess being that Namco owned the rights and it was sold almost exclusively to Nintendo (for the NES) - and Atari missed out? There's never been any word or sign of Galaga being worked on - for any of the Atari 8-bit/5200 hardware. Harvey The 7800 version is pretty good, imho. Atari obviously had the license. Not sure why they didn't port it. Maybe it was too late. Not sure on the timing though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 3 hours ago, christo930 said: The 7800 version is pretty good, imho. Atari obviously had the license. Not sure why they didn't port it. Maybe it was too late. Not sure on the timing though. I never had a 7800 and haven't actually seen one running up close. But going by the video of it - it does seem to be less than satisfactory. In that too low a resolution was used for Galaga. So why did the company who designed the hardware - choose what they did, with it, in doing the Galaga conversion? It certainly doesn't show the superiority of the 7800 hardware. None of the original titles really do it for me - showing the power of this system? While the two unreleased/unfinished shooters (Sirius and Plutos) are very promising - still they lack the superior look to them. Generally it takes time for programmers to show off what new hardware can really do? Sadly with the 7800 there wasn't the time for that to be done. Even now I doubt if it has been pushed that hard? Atari didn't seem to have the license to produce an 8-bit Computer/5200 conversion. No unreleased prototypes have turned up - or been made mention of? We can only guess at why did it not appear? That they couldn't see it being done to come anywhere near as close to what the NES did? Or maybe they did not have the license at all to do it? Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 2 hours ago, kiwilove said: Sadly with the 7800 there wasn't the time for that to be done. Even now I doubt if it has been pushed that hard? Clearly you’ve never played any of the modern homebrews. Start with DONKEY KONG PK, then go to BENTLEY BEAR’S CRYSTAL QUEST, and finish off with RIKKI & VIKKI. The 7800 is capable of far more than it was ever shown to do BITD. Going by the WIP of GALAGA here in this very thread, so too is the 5200. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 11 hours ago, DrVenkman said: Clearly you’ve never played any of the modern homebrews. Start with DONKEY KONG PK, then go to BENTLEY BEAR’S CRYSTAL QUEST, and finish off with RIKKI & VIKKI. The 7800 is capable of far more than it was ever shown to do BITD. Going by the WIP of GALAGA here in this very thread, so too is the 5200. No - I don't have a 7800 - but still I like to see what has been happening with it's homebrews. Bentley Bear never impressed me at all - sure it's masterful in how someone has stepped up and made the effort to produce something worthwhile for the 7800 - but it's graphic designs are more like Maniac Miner, than Miner 2049'er - whereas it could have tried to step up to the plate - to maybe match Wonderboy? Rikki & Vikki is nice to see, although it's hardly pushing the 7800 hardware - but nice game design. It's standard of graphics is high. Of course the main reason why there hasn't been a great deal of homebrews for the 7800 must be because of the difficulty in developing for it. That no development kits have come to light and an absence of information about the hardware, etc. Xevious was not the best version possible? The limitations being that RAM prices were high and they were working within the limits of that time. That being why Xevious and Galaga ended up being what they are. Being redone as homebrews today - they can be closer to their arcade originals - but no one has the know how, development tools etc to redo them. Likewise for Xevious and Zaxxon for the 8-bit Atari hardware. Much improved versions could be done - if there was an experienced programmer willing to put the time and effort to redo them. Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+DrVenkman Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, kiwilove said: Bentley Bear never impressed me at all - sure it's masterful in how someone has stepped up and made the effort to produce something worthwhile for the 7800 - but it's graphic designs are more like Maniac Miner, than Miner 2049'er - whereas it could have tried to step up to the plate - to maybe match Wonderboy? Rikki & Vikki is nice to see, although it's hardly pushing the 7800 hardware - but nice game design. It's standard of graphics is high. Wow. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YSG2020 Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 I think an 8-bit Galaga programming competition would be interesting. Considering what can be done in only 10 lines of BASIC, I’m sure some miraculous feats could be accomplished with Galaga. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) I've added a couple more sound effects to my binary ... in order: 1. Tractor beam 1 2. Tractor beam 2 3. Alien whirling noise 4. Insert coin 5. Extra life 6. Alien death 1 7. Alien death 2 #4 and #5 need more work. I think I have gotten VERY close with #6 and #7, which are the new ones here. I used $cx distortion and mod 3 frequencies, in 16-bit mode. Would love to hear your thoughts on this. Maybe that pavros polycounter reset code might improve #6 and #7 a bit. Press START to cycle through the sounds. galaga-soundfx.asm galaga-soundfx.s galaga-soundfx.xex Edited June 23, 2020 by Synthpopalooza 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 So I had a question ... The original Galaga arcade version has 3 channels I think ... I had in mind this layout: AUDCTL=$70 0 and 1 - Combined 16-bit for alien deaths (using $Cx mod 3 distortion) 2 - Tractor beam sounds and alien swooping (tractor beam uses $cx non mod 3 at 1.79 mhz) 3 - Player firing, or player explosion when hit I wasn't sure if the player firing and the alien deaths used the same channel, I think the arcade places them on different channels. Am I correct in this assumption? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Some other thoughts ... Tractor beam #2 can be improved by adding a 16-bit channel that modulates between $Cx and $2x but plays the same sound as the square $Ax channel. The arcade version does this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Westphal Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 A heartfelt “ Thank You “ to all involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Still plugging some of these out ... that organy waveform is proving troublesome at the moment. It's used for the Boss Galaga death sound amongst others. May have some ideas though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 The latest ... 1. Tractor beam 1 2. Tractor beam 2 3. Alien whirling noise 4. Insert coin 5. Extra life 6. Alien death 1 7. Alien death 2 8. Boss Galaga hit 9. Boss Galaga killed 10. Level up 11. Alien hatching sound 12. Unknown sound 13. Alien whirling noise extended - end of dive Can anyone tell me when sound #12 is used? If it's in-game I will need to re-do it to make it fit. #4 and #5 are a bit closer to arcade but not exact. 8 and 9 are as close as I can get, I think. I had to transpose 11 up a few steps to make it fit into $Cx @1.79 mhz galaga-intro.xex galaga-soundfx.asm galaga-intro.s 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 I think I am only missing alien dive, player shoot, and player death sfx. player shoot and death will all be on the last channel. Still unsure what channels the extra life sound should use ... will listen closely to arcade version and figure out which channels get used there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 The other issue is the alien dive sound. To make it 100% arcade sounding I must use $Cx distortion... but I am forced to use the 1.79 mhz third channel, and can only play notes down to A#4. The sound requires notes down to A#3. Ideas: 1. Split the sound into two parts, and do the last half (below A#4) on the standard $Ax square wave @64 khz. 2. Same as 1, but see if the same notes can be cobbled together using standard $Cx @64 khz clock. The tuning will be a bit wonky and some notes are dropped ... We will see ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 I am going to cobble this together for the 7800 while I am at it. There we can use two 16-bit POKEY channels and use TIA for ship firing. ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted June 27, 2020 Share Posted June 27, 2020 Another addition ... 14. Alien dive, beginning 15. Alien dive, ending 14 is played in $Cx at 1.79 mhz 15 switches to $2x at 1.79 mhz to play the lower parts inaccessible in $Cx Ship firing and explosion next. I am wondering if the firing can be placed on the 1.79 mhz channel ... means it can't be played at the same time as enemy deaths (unlike the arcade) but it will sound more arcade like. galaga-soundfx.asm galaga-soundfx.s galaga-soundfx.xex 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 The latest! Changes: Extra life sound is a bit closer to the arcade Also, added these: 16. Ship Firing #1 17. Ship Firing #2 18. Ship destroyed 19 thru 21: Variations on Tractor beam #2 in different distortions. These are not being played properly. They're supposed to use 16-bit mode but something keeps putting a buzzing noise into the sound. Can anyone look at the code and figure out why? 16 is in standard $Ax square at 64 khz and is meant to be played on the last channel. Can be played independently of the alien deaths but doesn't sound exactly like the arcade sound. 17 is in $Cx 16-bit and goes on the first two channels, same as the alien deaths. It sounds closer to the arcade but cannot be played at the same time as the alien deaths. It's up to you which one you decide to use. I like this better if we can get away with it. 18 goes on the last channel. galaga-soundfx.asm galaga-soundfx.s galaga-soundfx.xex 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwilove Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 I would guess that whoever will end up working on the conversion of Galaga - would make use of these sound fx because it's so important to get them as close to the coin-op as possible. Just as a side comment - I'll be interested in your take on the Defender sfx. Was the home conversion missing much of the quality aspect of the coin-op? I seem to remember that the arcade sound was so distinctive - you could always tell if someone was playing this game because of it's awesome sound effects, etc. Someone did comment on the game sfx back in the day of how brilliant the sound was done for this game. A copycat game - Mayday - also had that defender like sound to it? Harvey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 I think they can be gotten closer to the arcade ... esp that hum noise at the beginning. AUDCTL=%???????1 to get the 15 khz bass frequencies, and then a hi pass filter to get that sweeping effect. Atari XL Defender was good enough for its time, but now, with more of POKEY's tricks available, I think it can be done better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 Updated the tractor beam fx. 16-bit ones are still getting those buzzing artifacts, but maybe they can be gotten rid of ... I think my music code may be writing unnecessary zeroes to the sound registers. There are 4 of these: 1. Plain $Ax wave 2. $Ax + $2x 3. $Ax + $Cx 4. $Ax + Cx mod 3 These are meant to be played for one iteration each, one after the other, to mimic the swirling sound in the arcade fx. galaga-tractorbeamfx.asm galaga-tractorbeamfx.s galaga-tractorbeamfx.xex 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIX Posted July 2, 2020 Share Posted July 2, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, kiwilove said: I would guess that whoever will end up working on the conversion of Galaga - would make use of these sound fx because it's so important to get them as close to the coin-op as possible. Just as a side comment - I'll be interested in your take on the Defender sfx. Was the home conversion missing much of the quality aspect of the coin-op? I seem to remember that the arcade sound was so distinctive - you could always tell if someone was playing this game because of it's awesome sound effects, etc. Someone did comment on the game sfx back in the day of how brilliant the sound was done for this game. A copycat game - Mayday - also had that defender like sound to it? Harvey I love "Defender" sound ! did you know that Williams used to share sound effects between their games ? I have the Williams "Firepower" pinball and most of the sound effects are pure "Defender" ? Edited July 2, 2020 by TIX 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted July 3, 2020 Share Posted July 3, 2020 If wanted, I can try some Defender sfx ... will put these in another thread ... meanwhile, may have a fix for those tractor beam swirls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted July 4, 2020 Share Posted July 4, 2020 Defender stuff ... I wrote a short TURBOBASIC program: 10 DSOUND 0,$7F10,10,7:DSOUND 1,$7E90, 10,0:POKE $D208,$7A 20 PAUSE 120 30 DSOUND 40 REPEAT :UNTIL PEEK(555) 50 DSOUND 0,$59DB,10,7:DSOUND 1,$1620, 10,0:POKE $D208,$7A 60 PAUSE 120 70 DSOUND 80 REPEAT :UNTIL PEEK(555) 90 GOTO 10 Press any key to cycle between the two sounds: Insert coin, and game start. How it works: All four channels must be used ... 16 bit on all four, plus a hi pass filter ... AUDCTL=$7A. This makes the swirling effect. On the second one, transpose the second frequency up a couple of octaves and vary the period so that you get an oscillating ramp decay. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synthpopalooza Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 OK, I think this nails the sound fx for Atari XL/5200 Galaga. The final lineup is: 1. Tractor beam initiate 2. Tractor beam swirl #1 3. Tractor beam after capture 4. Insert coin 5. Extra life 6. Alien Death #1 7. Alien Death #2 8. Boss Galaga hit 9. Boss Galaga death 10. Level up 11. Alien hatching 12. Unknown sound 13. Alien dive finished 14. Alien dive 1 15. Alien dive 2 16. Ship firing #1 (on last channel) 17. Ship firing #2 (on 16-bit alien death channel) 18. Player destroyed (on last channel) 19. Tractor beam swirl #2 20. Tractor beam swirl #3 21. Tractor beam swirl #4 I have fixed those swirls. When it happens, should be played in the following order for 1 iteration each: #2, #19, #20, #21 ... the last three play #2 with it simultaneously. I have included 16 and 17 both. 16 will play on the last channel, can be played simultaneously with alien deaths, but won't be as close to the arcade. 17 is designed to play on the 16-bit channel, sounds more like the arcade, but will be overridden by the alien death sounds. I also improved the insert coin and extra life sounds. Can anyone tell me when sound 12 is used in the arcade game? This is everything except for the music. Thoughts, please? galaga-soundfx.asm galaga-soundfx.s galaga-soundfx.xex 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIX Posted July 5, 2020 Share Posted July 5, 2020 Hey @Synthpopalooza how do I advance to the next sound ? (Altirra) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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