Atari XL Mouse

[Mr Robot]

I want to make a mouse shell that I can stick my mouse innards into to make it more Atari-like. I thought I'd do something like the Atari ST mouse but instead of the rounded edges I'd use the chamfer of the XL range and of course go with XL colours as well. I'm not a big fan of the ST mouse from an ergonomics perspective but there isn't another mouse that is as Atari as the ST mouse so I can live with the shape.

 

I've mocked something up and it seems to look ok and certainly has enough room inside for whatever mouse board I wish to integrate. 

 

Now I need some help. I don't have an ST mouse so I can't measure it to get the sizes and angles correct. Is there anyone with calipers and an ST mouse who is willing to measure all the odd angles I'm likely to ask them to measure or is anyone willing to lend me an ST mouse for a few days? Of course the final STL files will be released for people to make their own when I'm finished.

 

[Preppie]

That looks cool.  But due to shoulder problems I don't use a mouse, what can you do with this? lol

 

[Swami]

otherwise, closest thing to an atari 800xl mouse is a cx80

https://atariwiki.org/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=Atari CX80 Trak-Ball controller

 

 

[+Philsan]

I want to make a mouse shell that I can stick my mouse innards into to make it more Atari-like. I thought I'd do something like the Atari ST mouse but instead of the rounded edges I'd use the chamfer of the XL range and of course go with XL colours as well. I'm not a big fan of the ST mouse from an ergonomics perspective but there isn't another mouse that is as Atari as the ST mouse so I can live with the shape.
 
I've mocked something up and it seems to look ok and certainly has enough room inside for whatever mouse board I wish to integrate. 
 
Now I need some help. I don't have an ST mouse so I can't measure it to get the sizes and angles correct. Is there anyone with calipers and an ST mouse who is willing to measure all the odd angles I'm likely to ask them to measure or is anyone willing to lend me an ST mouse for a few days? Of course the final STL files will be released for people to make their own when I'm finished.
 

That would be the perfect companion to Jon's GUI.

[Gunstar]

I'm quite happy with my original STM1 mouse, after painting it to match the XL. I suppose I could have filed down the curved edges to make it even closer in design to the XL line, but I feel the wedge shape that matches the ST/XE and XL lines is close enough, once it matched in color. And as @Swami points out, the track-ball is like your design, But there are two versions and mine is not wedged at the edges, it's curved like the STM1 mouse. And yes, it will go well with Jon's GUI, if it is ever finished, in the mean time, there are other GUI's and programs that it goes well with right now.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Gunstar

[Wrathchild]

Are you test driving these?

[Gunstar]

9 minutes ago, Wrathchild said:

Are you test driving these?

 I love them. I gave one to a friend for Christmas, and two for myself, one is for everyday use and the other is kept in the plastic for collecting/display. I also have one of Alternate Reality I got from the same place, currently on display and not in use. But they are already available and have been for a while, no "test driving" and they having NOTHING to do with Greyfox books.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Gunstar

[Wrathchild]

Ah, just the 800 version seems exclusive to the kickstarter, found the 400 here

 

 

[Gunstar]

That is where I purchased mine. Here is the proper page that shows all the Atari designed mats: https://www.rhayadercomputers.co.uk/Atari_Mats/cat4866956_4165410.aspx

There is an 800 one there too, and I doubt ANYTHING is exclusive to Greyfox books, it's all from somewhere else and "borrowed" by the Kickstarter book.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Gunstar

[Shawn]

10 minutes ago, Wrathchild said:

Ah, just the 800 version seems exclusive to the kickstarter, found the 400 here

 

 

 

800 version can be had from the same seller if this is what you are looking for.

https://www.rhayadercomputers.co.uk/atari_800/p4866955_18074027.aspx

[Swami]

1 hour ago, Gunstar said:

I'm quite happy with my original STM1 mouse, after painting it to match the XL. I suppose I could have filed down the curved edges to make it even closer in design to the XL line, but I feel the wedge shape that matches the ST/XE and XL lines is close enough, once it matched in color. And as @Swami points out, the track-ball is like your design, But there are two versions and mine is not wedged at the edges, it's curved like the STM1 mouse. And yes, it will go well with Jon's GUI, if it is ever finished, in the mean time, there are other GUI's and programs that it goes well with right now.

Only thing I’d add is regarding trackball mice, that the later design with the bigger wedge buttons(cx80) was released close in time with the XLs, I think. 

[Mr Robot]

1 hour ago, Gunstar said:

I'm quite happy with my original STM1 mouse, after painting it to match the XL.

Your mouse looks terrific, I'm glad I didn't see it until after I came up with my idea or I might never have bothered!

[Preppie]

3 minutes ago, Mr Robot said:

Your mouse looks terrific, I'm glad I didn't see it until after I came up with my idea or I might never have bothered!

Yeah, that painted mouse is sweet.  Just needs a bit of yellowing lol

[Mr Robot]

1 hour ago, Philsan said:

5 hours ago, Mr Robot said:

I want to make a mouse shell that I can stick my mouse innards into to make it more Atari-like. I thought I'd do something like the Atari ST mouse but instead of the rounded edges I'd use the chamfer of the XL range and of course go with XL colours as well. I'm not a big fan of the ST mouse from an ergonomics perspective but there isn't another mouse that is as Atari as the ST mouse so I can live with the shape.
 
I've mocked something up and it seems to look ok and certainly has enough room inside for whatever mouse board I wish to integrate. 
 
Now I need some help. I don't have an ST mouse so I can't measure it to get the sizes and angles correct. Is there anyone with calipers and an ST mouse who is willing to measure all the odd angles I'm likely to ask them to measure or is anyone willing to lend me an ST mouse for a few days? Of course the final STL files will be released for people to make their own when I'm finished.
 

That would be the perfect companion to Jon's GUI.

Also ideal for use with the 1088XEL/XLD, which is why I want to make it. 

[Gunstar]

53 minutes ago, Swami said:

Only thing I’d add is regarding trackball mice, that the later design with the bigger wedge buttons(cx80) was released close in time with the XLs, I think. 

That depends on which XL's. The CX22 (the track-ball I have) was released around the time of the 1200XL, just like the touch-tablet and ALL XL peripherals. XL peripherals started coming out just ahead of the 1200XL, and can be seen in late 800 ads along with 400/800 peripherals, but the CX22 is XL line, hence the colors. Then the 600/800XL came along and then the CX80. So what was your point? I don't see any beige track-balls around, and they aren't "track-ball mice" they are track-balls and will NOT work with stuff made for only mice, a separate driver is required. You can modify them to work like an Amiga/ST mouse, but they are not that way in stock condition.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Gunstar

[Gavin1968]

Here you are

 

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/76030545

 

[Gunstar]

1 hour ago, Gavin1968 said:

Here you are

 

https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/76030545

 

And in desperate need of at least a cleaning, if not a good painting anyway!

[scotty]

Get yourself either a white or black mouse that you really like.  Take it apart and use KRYLON FUSION FOR PLASTIC spray paint on it.  I took a black keyboard that I got at Goodwill for cheap and got the white paint listed above to make they keyboard look like an XL.   I was very happy with the results.  Easy to do.   I also got the keyboard stickers and had the perfect keyboard for emulation as the pictures show.   Looking at it today, you can not tell it was not sold that way.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by scotty
Spelling typo

[+slx]

Have mouse and calipers, will measure if you’re not in a hurry and can set up a drawing with which measurements you need. 

 

 

[Swami]

9 hours ago, Gunstar said:

That depends on which XL's. The CX22 (the track-ball I have) was released around the time of the 1200XL, just like the touch-tablet and ALL XL peripherals. XL peripherals started coming out just ahead of the 1200XL, and can be seen in late 800 ads along with 400/800 peripherals, but the CX22 is XL line, hence the colors. Then the 600/800XL came along and then the CX80. So what was your point? I don't see any beige track-balls around, and they aren't "track-ball mice" they are track-balls and will NOT work with stuff made for only mice, a separate driver is required. You can modify them to work like an Amiga/ST mouse, but they are not that way in stock condition.

Just being helpful to the trackball guy and giving another perspective, but not really invested in what he chooses or what you think.

[Gunstar]

2 hours ago, Swami said:

Just being helpful to the trackball guy and giving another perspective, but not really invested in what he chooses or what you think.

I'm just being helpful with information, I'm sorry if I came off to you as rude and/or patronizing. I guess you took my question in my reply as some kind of jab at you and not an honest question. Sorry. There's no need to be an ass about it. My point was that at least one XL peripheral (CX22 track-ball) was rounded instead of beveled, just like the STM1 mouse. And after all, it's not like I just responded to a post you made, I responded to a post of you responding to a post of mine!? I was just adding relevant information like you said you were doing.

 

The way you phrased the post I replied to seemed like you were guessing and I was just giving closer approximations and point out facts about the track-balls when you referred to them as track-ball mice, which they are not, out of the box, which is an important fact to someone looking to use them with mouse-driven software. But there are several vintage track-ball/mice made for the ST and Amiga that will work with the 8-bit as a mouse too, like the one here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-New-Old-Stock-Golden-Image-Trackball-for-Commodore-Amiga-Atari-Computer/273850467691?hash=item3fc2c2856b:g:hBAAAOSweadc3TN5

 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Gunstar

[Swami]

42 minutes ago, Gunstar said:

I'm just being helpful with information, I'm sorry if I came off to you as rude and/or patronizing. I guess you took my question in my reply as some kind of jab at you and not an honest question. Sorry. There's no need to be an ass about it. My point was that at least one XL peripheral (CX22 track-ball) was rounded instead of beveled, just like the STM1 mouse. And after all, it's not like I just responded to a post you made, I responded to a post of you responding to a post of mine!? I was just adding relevant information like you said you were doing.

 

The way you phrased the post I replied to seemed like you were guessing and I was just giving closer approximations and point out facts about the track-balls when you referred to them as track-ball mice, which they are not, out of the box, which is an important fact to someone looking to use them with mouse-driven software. 

 

 

Okay, fair enough. All caps is often interpreted as SHOUTING  . I was referring to the Logitech trackball mouse he was asking about when I said "regarding trackball mice", as in what to do about his trackball mouse, not the atari trak-balls. If you read this description of the trackballs in this summary, you'll see where there is a common idea that the cx80 was associated with the XL models and redesigned for it, although, it appears they both came out in 1983. 

http://www.ataricompendium.com/game_library/controllers/controllers.html#trackballs 

I would agree the later CX22 Pro-line model with the cream lower side in more color compatible. Some people think the "Pro-line" was used to associate it with the 7800 Pro-line, which was being advertised in 1983 for a planned 1984 release, but that's just more trivia. I'd looked a lot into these trak-balls and the supposed compatibilities with various known and rumoured 8-bit Missile Command versions, but that was a couple years ago, so I'm a little rusty. So, back to mouse cases.

[Mr Robot]

9 hours ago, slx said:

Have mouse and calipers, will measure if you’re not in a hurry and can set up a drawing with which measurements you need. 

 

 

Thank you!, I'll knock up a sketch for you to fill in and PM it to you 

[Gunstar]

9 hours ago, Swami said:

Okay, fair enough. All caps is often interpreted as SHOUTING  . I was referring to the Logitech trackball mouse he was asking about when I said "regarding trackball mice", as in what to do about his trackball mouse, not the atari trak-balls. If you read this description of the trackballs in this summary, you'll see where there is a common idea that the cx80 was associated with the XL models and redesigned for it, although, it appears they both came out in 1983. 

http://www.ataricompendium.com/game_library/controllers/controllers.html#trackballs 

I would agree the later CX22 Pro-line model with the cream lower side in more color compatible. Some people think the "Pro-line" was used to associate it with the 7800 Pro-line, which was being advertised in 1983 for a planned 1984 release, but that's just more trivia. I'd looked a lot into these trak-balls and the supposed compatibilities with various known and rumoured 8-bit Missile Command versions, but that was a couple years ago, so I'm a little rusty. So, back to mouse cases.

I never considered capitals as shouting personally, just for emphasis when it's only one or two words as it's easier than clicking and de-clicking italics or bold. I just don't mix-up the spoken and written word like that. Even if it's an all caps response, I never thought of it as shouting, maybe upset/perturbed/agitated or angry. And I never would have guessed that one word, "NOT", would have been what upset you. It was merely emphasis because often, people, including myself, may skim-read/speed-read a bit and missing a positive or negative gives one the opposite meaning. 

 

As to the track-balls, it does surprise me that they both came out in 1983, and that I thought my "pro-line" version was actually the earlier version, and they got cheaper with the CX80. For one I've never tried the CX80, but I didn't think the black ball would be as high quality as the white (mine has yellowed) ball which is actually a billiards cue-ball. But maybe the black-ball is a billiards style ball? I would only have ever associated it being called Pro-line, with the 7800, if it was black in color, instead of XL brown. Plus the fact that, IIRC, (and I could be wrong, I haven't owned a 7800 for over a decade) the 7800 never had any games for it that used a track-ball in true track-ball mode, only joystick mode. I think this is true if you used it on a 2600 as well. Only the Atari 8-bits and 5200 have true track-ball games, IIRC. And it's no rumor that Missile Command, and other games, have true track-ball mode options, and again, IIRC, it's an official cartridge release version (though there may have been more than one official version for all I know) that has track-ball compatibility just a Control+T combination or something to that effect. But there are other games,, like Centipede and Millipede (one or both) that can be used in true track-ball mode. And plenty of graphic art programs and desktops use true track-ball modes if a track-ball is chosen or setup as the input device.

Edited September 19, 2019 by Gunstar

[Gunstar]

Oh yeah, and just in case anyone missed it when it was being talked about previously, in another thread (JFC GUI?) @Mr Robot may be interested since he's making a new case anyway, why not an entirely new mouse? There is an upgrade available:for the STM1: https://amigastore.eu/638-laser-upgrade-kit-for-atari-stm1-mouse.html

Edited September 19, 2019 by Gunstar