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rensoup

Unicorns season: Prince of Persia for the A8!

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Posted (edited)

Way late to the party, so forgive me...but the latest download from the first post crashes in Altirra with an illegal instruction. I have Altirra set for a stock 130xe, PAL.

Edited by danwinslow

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I was going for simple and basic. Just the text in hires. I'd like to try some flickering to get an intermediate grey color... which is why the font name would be useful.

 

(Perhaps I'll have some colors around the large character at the top left)

 

I don't really care about colored signs around the text.

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4 hours ago, danwinslow said:

Way late to the party, so forgive me...but the latest download from the first post crashes in Altirra with an illegal instruction. I have Altirra set for a stock 130xe, PAL.

Nobody's reported this... just upgrade Altirra ?

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Posted (edited)

patjomki,

      Exactly that ....  flat, DOS, Apple variants all have brighter letters, stronger colors, even the normally washed out c64 in the shot you posted is brighter.

The one you posted looks tilted purple-blue and muted...

I did notice the letters on the bottom right had side appear different from port to port as well.

 

Edited by _The Doctor__

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15 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

[...]Apple variants all have brighter letters, stronger colors, even the normally washed out c64 in the shot you posted is brighter[...].

 

Unfortunately that is a restriction of the a8 when using hires fonts. So for the letters you can only have a different luminance of the background colour. That means there is no way to get white letters with for example a purple background in hires. Only very bright purple letters on a purple background.

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never been an issue before, so maybe the luminance isn't maxed on those letters. Looks like some were made white, perhaps the same treatment should be applied to all or if attempting to make those stand out on purpose... maybe increase the others so it's not as much. The colors on the A8 do not struggle to stand out like on the 64 so I'm sure that can be dialed up a notch as well.

 

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16 hours ago, rensoup said:

Nobody's reported this... just upgrade Altirra ?

yeah, I had 3.10, which crashed. 3.20 works great, thanks. Looks like a really great game.

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1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said:

never been an issue before, so maybe the luminance isn't maxed on those letters. Looks like some were made white, perhaps the same treatment should be applied to all or if attempting to make those stand out on purpose... maybe increase the others so it's not as much. The colors on the A8 do not struggle to stand out like on the 64 so I'm sure that can be dialed up a notch as well.

 

I suppose that I and O stand out is done on purpose. And yes, you are right. Having the letters all the same (brightest) luminance would be better. But as @rensoup is going a different way I guess its a rather academic view. 😉

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2 hours ago, patjomki said:

But as @rensoup is going a different way I guess its a rather academic view. 😉

Yes, it'll be classy BW 😃

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This I'd have to see... crazy bonus idea, randomized load you never know if you get B/W or Color version when loading... or BW in Color out.... this could be very interesting.

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5 hours ago, _The Doctor__ said:

This I'd have to see... crazy bonus idea, randomized load you never know if you get B/W or Color version when loading... or BW in Color out.... this could be very interesting.

Those border graphics aren't great, even on the original A2. The only reason to have them is for those who want a pixel accurate conversion which (as you've noticed) I'm not interested in doing.

The reason to have them on the A2 was I guess for continuity with the title screen, which I'm not going to use either.

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We have always done it better than the crApple II.

:)

 

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18 hours ago, Kyle22 said:

We have always done it better than the crApple II.

:)

 

Yeah but look where Atari is now 😀

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Posted (edited)

Apple was almost gone more than once.. ipod saved there *ss then they did phones...

Edited by _The Doctor__
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On 5/25/2020 at 1:22 AM, _The Doctor__ said:

Apple was almost gone more than once.. ipod saved there *ss then they did phones...

You're saying that like it was almost luck 😏

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Alright, got the flickering working on that prologue font... It's just typical flickering between 2 hires screens to give the illusion of a 3rd color, halfway PF1 & PF2. (Same as the Altirra OS floppy screen)

 

prol_noflicker.png.d074f941288691b441ca4fdcdd393e07.png

 

prol_flicker.png.fa8c8b55d35ac96757417a393b1c54ea.png

 

It's certainly better (how much better depends on your setup). I've made 3 versions:

 

1. NoFlicker: same as Pop on the A2/C64. The worst looking one.

 

2. Flicker1: screen0 contains the font with every pixel lit, screen1 contains only font pixels at full brightness. Very intense flickering

 

3. Flicker2: screen0 contains the font with pixels at full brightness and the pixels at half brigthness at ODD/EVEN coordinates. Screen1 is the same for fully bright pixels but it contains the rest of the pixels at half brightness at EVEN/ODD coordinates (opposite of screen0). Moderate flickering (Best looking one)

 

 


I'm curious to hear from real Atari users (NTSC&PAL) which one looks best, although I'm going to bet Flicker2.

 


If you're going to try this in Altirra, you need to make sure your monitor refresh rate and Altirra use the same setting otherwise the flickering is going to be nasty. By this I mean that if you use Altirra in PAL, your monitor refresh rate should be set to 50 (60 if you use NTSC).


Altirra has frame blending (Video options) which eliminates flickering but causes strong ghosting on fast moving pixels (it's supposed to emulate a CRT's phosphor decay but it's a little rough). That would look best (the screenshot above uses blending)

 

So to summarize for Altirra:

 

-Frame Blending: best, no flickering
-monitor 60 hz, Altirra in NTSC mode: 2nd best, some flickering
-monitor 50 hz, Altirra in PAL mode: 3rd best, some flickering
-monitor 60 hz, Altirra in PAL mode: garbage, much flickering
-monitor 50 hz, Altirra in NTSC mode: garbage, much flickering


 


 

 

fnt_flicker2.obx fnt_flicker1.obx fnt_noflicker.obx

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I am not fan of this black-white interlace. It just flickers too much. It would be kind of acceptable if the shades were closer together, but that cannot be the case for white letters on black background. Perhaps in NTSC the flicker is less prominent.

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I've tested the three files on PAL machine with s-video output.

 

Noflicker looks good to me.

Flicker1 flickers too much to be used.

Flicker2 flicker slightly, it can be used (says someone who doesn't like flicker at all).

 

 

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Posted (edited)

@rensoup

 

I understand you want to go another way compared to existing versions, but I'm also not sure if plain black/white text of introduction is the way to go. It shows not much of Atari8 superiority over another 8-bit platforms (colors), looks just plain and not that stylish, rather like it's plain because there was no disk-space, RAM, etc...

Of course it's not a life or death choice and the game still will be great, but I think these subtitles should be presented in consistent colors-form to the rest of the intro/PoP graphics.

 

I really see nothing wrong with these decorations around and having more colours (here, Amiga),  so maybe thinking twice would be good if we want to have it different just for the sake of it:

obraz.png.9131b6d729bd9b467f25dabae1ca0906.png

 

The big 1st letter is also a "classic" here we'd miss?

 

And sorry for that, but supporting isn't only about agreeing to everything ;)

Edited by Jacques
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No flicker.

 

An alternative could be to employ proper 480i interlace.  But all we'd be doing there is doubling vertical resolution.   Where what we actually need most is more horizontal resolution and/or some anti-aliasing.

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1 hour ago, Jacques said:

@rensoup

 

I understand you want to go another way compared to existing versions, but I'm also not sure if plain black/white text of introduction is the way to go. It shows not much of Atari8 superiority over another 8-bit platforms (colors), looks just plain and not that stylish, rather like it's plain because there was no disk-space, RAM, etc...

Of course it's not a life or death choice and the game still will be great, but I think these subtitles should be presented in consistent colors-form to the rest of the intro/PoP graphics.

 

I really see nothing wrong with these decorations around and having more colours (here, Amiga),  so maybe thinking twice would be good if we want to have it different just for the sake of it:

obraz.png.9131b6d729bd9b467f25dabae1ca0906.png

 

The big 1st letter is also a "classic" here we'd miss?

 

And sorry for that, but supporting isn't only about agreeing to everything ;)

Sorry, I have to agree. As good as you made the rest of the game look, the plain black and white just looks like a lazy job, or a sign of needing to cut corners due to lack of available memory(which we all know obviously isn't a problem these days), or some other reason, like time constraint. But you don't have any time constraint, you have all the time in the world to do this. Honestly if you are going to make it look black and white like that, you might as well print it in standard ATASCII letters on a Graphics 0 screen. 

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Posted (edited)

I said him but he don't listen.

I know that it'll never look good to anyone and flicker is never a choice as is not for everyone.

I had things from the past that posted him but no way.

I show him that @emkay was simple and that I also have something similar and posted him the files. Still no way and that all was beeing cared of... It seems was but on a wrong way. I said that no need for credit me or to he make a contact to @emkay...

After all the hard work then comes this to destroy everything? Sorry but I'm also to say that just don't have to agree in everything.

Why the flicker? For what? Things can be done without it.

So now to all here's the the screen for everyone (now to please more the blue is more darker in luminance 2):

-> PFs only:

1601969031_All_text1PFsonly.png.d9259186efc5aefaf42e3b05f172b322.png 1870643774_All_text2PFsonly.png.c41adf423bc5a9b3ace53211d4a9daeb.png

-> PMGs only:

1895092552_All_text1PMGsonly.png.9bac6665ff18d6016643228ac66a36b0.png 1559497516_All_text2PMGsonly.png.d3ca5010e6956affca43ba22d67902c8.png

-> Together:

692233673_All_text1.png.94cc599f753fd6766e8eed447cb54cba.png 2126450355_All_text2.png.0fbdfbc5a3434257294bbca23edf9ed9.png

  All _text1.g2f                                          All _text2.g2f

  All _text1.xex                                         All _text2.xex

So asking again: Why not a simple thing like this that other versions have, looks good and is so simple as just copy these files and automatically use them on the game?

Sorry but I really don't understand.

:thumbsdown:

 

 

Edited by José Pereira
Bottom part gfxs some pixels must be brown, not the dark blue.
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