doubledown's Jaguar Edition - VVG Enhanced Controller - (Arcade Stick)

[doubledown]

14 hours ago, Zerosquare said:

I'd have to double check, but as I remember it, each lane of the playfield is 3 or 4 pulses "wide". So it is indeed dependent on how many lanes the current level has.

Definitely sounds like I would need to do some in-depth investigation into this before I could commit to anything.  

 

So 2 other bits of news, I've been in touch with danny_galaga, and I've had a chance to look into pricing for this type of controller.  

 

So I sent a PM to danny the other day and he responded back and we're currently discussing/looking into the possibility for the Rapid Fire enhancement being added to this controller.  As of now that is literally all the info I have, so don't bother asking any questions with its regard...because at this point I simply don't know.  

 

Regarding pricing, for those who expressed interest... "as built" in my first post...this controller would sell for $310-$350, depending on how many controllers (of any that I offer, not just this Jaguar Edition) I was ordering parts for & building simultaneously.  The reason for the large swing is shipping costs, plain and simple.  The parts to build this controller come from 8 vendors.  1 offers free shipping as standard, and 2 others will offer free shipping if the total order amount, is over some specific dollar amount, and all of others charge shipping ranging from $8 - $10 per order.  So in the example of building say 1 controller, there would be a total of $58.00 in shipping costs, alone.  Obviously if ordering parts for multiple controllers at once, the shipping costs remain the same (to a certain point), but now get split amongst multiple builds hence the spread of $310-$350.  I would need 5 controllers to be built simultaneously to drop the price to $310.  

 

About the only "savings" I can offer to this edition is if you chose to keep the stock iL Shaft/Bat Knob that comes with the joystick, versus upgrading to the threaded shaft and separate bat or ball knob (as how I built mine).  That would drop the price $20, so ranging from $290-$330.  Like I said, I feel the stock iL shaft is too tall for a laptop used arcade stick (mounted in a metal panel), but that's my personal preference.  And note, the shaft/knob can always be changed at a later date if chosen. 

 

I understand that this is a substantial amount of money for a controller, but please remember I wasn't setting out to build a "cheap" controller for the masses.  Its possible that at a later date I could re-visit this to see if I could make a smaller / less expensive version, but for right now, I built, what I wanted, for my personal use.  With all that being said, feel confident that with the components used in this build, this controller will probably outlast your Jaguar console.  I'm currently working on a couple of other projects right now, so I don't currently have time to take any sort of orders for this edition, for those who might still be interested.  I was planning on an interest check / pre-order period starting in a couple weeks (mid-January, after the holidays are over), as there are some members who have already expressed interest in a few other controllers I am offering.  Once I'm ready I'll post a thread in buying/selling area regarding any of the controllers that are available, and I'll provide the link here for those who are still interested.  And I'll update this post with any info I get regarding the Rapid Fire enhancement, and if I have time, some type of rotary control.  

[Machine]

If you add rapid fire option, I am down for one.

[+Saturn]

The price sounds great. For the quality alone, it's worth it imo. Still very interested and will be watching

[doubledown]

I'l post more info regarding the Rapid Fire when I know more.  

 

I can also offer a credit of $25 (off of the above listed prices) to anyone who would want to provide their own donor Jaguar controller, which is used for for its lower PCB with components, and the cable.  

[doubledown]

I was playing around with a few things today:

 

 

I added black PVC heat-shrink to the exposed joystick shaft...so it doesn't stand out as much.  Some joysticks offer "Shaft Covers", but they're not available for this shaft, so the rigid PVC heat-shrink should suffice.  Then I made-up a small overlay to ID the C/B/A buttons.  I don't "love" this little overlay, it just looks a little out of place, so I'm not sure if I'll keep it or not.  

[+Saturn]

I really like the overlay. It's a nice touch imo

[RREDDWARFF]

I agree with Saturn. I too think the C,B,A overlay looks good.

[doubledown]

If the buttons went A/B/C I wouldn't even have considered it...I can't imagine why Atari reversed the alphabet.

[+CyranoJ]

7 minutes ago, doubledown said:

If the buttons went A/B/C I wouldn't even have considered it...I can't imagine why Atari reversed the alphabet.

(C)an't (B)e (A)rsed

[RREDDWARFF]

11 minutes ago, doubledown said:

If the buttons went A/B/C I wouldn't even have considered it...I can't imagine why Atari reversed the alphabet.

Ha, who knows. Perhaps it was the same design team who came up with the Jag CD toilet bowl design. 

[doubledown]

Maybe they just wanted to differentiate themselves from SEGA.

[doubledown]

All right so I received my new Jaguar and figured I'd take the obligatory side-by-side glamour shot:

 

 

...and here's the rear showing the cord-wrap cable cleats:

 

 

I played two games of NBA JAM T.E., and a few races of Power Drive Rally and the controller plays beautifully...wouldn't change a thing.

 

For testing purposes is there any game that easily makes use of "all" of the buttons (including the keypad for wiring verification), or am I just better off to get the Jaguar System Test Cart from Best Electronics for this?

[Iwantgames:)]

I'm in for buying one if/when they go for sale. Looks beautiful

 

As for games that use all the buttons, I believe AvP does

[RREDDWARFF]

The controller looks incredible. I really like the cord wrap in the back. 

 

Alien vs Predator uses all but the 0 button as far as I can tell. A great game, but you do have to unlock everything for the Predator in order to test all the other buttons on the keypad. 

 

Cybermorph is an inexpensive game that gives you access to all of the keypad buttons. 1, 2 and 3 are for a super weapon which might have to be unlocked or picked up. I don't remember. 

[doubledown]

I had the idea for some type of "cable-management" when I first used this enclosure for I think my Defender CV controller, but couldn't find anything I liked initially...figured I'd get to it later.  But when I was commissioned to build the Vanguard CV controller the buyer wanted it too, so it forced to me to figure something out, and I've been using them ever since; and I went back and added them to the first 2 that didn't have them.  

 

I also found today at Lowe's a Hefty brand storage tub that will hold these 17" controllers, and my wider, 20" enclosure based controllers:

 

 

Not a shippable container for sure, but at least it will keep the dust off them when not in use.

 

I'm so accustom to using "test programs" for controller testing.  Their simple interfaces with on-screen acknowledgements of directional & button presses, and only takes about 10 or 15 seconds for initial verification of controller wiring.  I'll probably just buy the System Test cart from Best.  I have to place an order with them for a few other things anyways.  

[Rick Dangerous]

Looks awesome!!  I'm certainly interested in one or a pair.

 

Can i ask--why did you decide against doing a 6-button variant since the space is available?  For fighting games and such. 

[doubledown]

I had thought about the ProController layout, but for my 1st Jaguar controller...I figured I'd start with the easy 3 button version.  For the ProController I would assume make it an 8 button like the original.  Looking at the version I have above, assuming your index finger is "C", middle finger "B", and ring finger "A", I would install black buttons where your thumb and pinky finger would be for the "L" & "R" shoulder buttons, then a 2nd row of 3 buttons above the C/B/A for the Z/Y/X buttons.  To match the ProController the Z/Y/X buttons "should" be smaller than the C/B/A with convex plungers, probably the same 24mm Sanwas I used for the keypad, or I could stick with full sized buttons and use iL PSL-L/CV convex buttons so they would be same look/feel of the C/B/A buttons, but only convex vs. concave.  Then I would probably use these same full-sized iL buttons for the L/R buttons.  To add room for the 2nd upper row of buttons, the buttons and joystick would need to move down about 1.5" - 2.0", but like you said, there is room.  

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the L/R/Z/Y/X buttons of the ProController simply map to keypad buttons?  If so, does anybody know, with certainty, which buttons correlate to which keypad inputs?

[Iwantgames:)]

5 hours ago, doubledown said:

I had thought about the ProController layout, but for my 1st Jaguar controller...I figured I'd start with the easy 3 button version.  For the ProController I would assume make it an 8 button like the original.  Looking at the version I have above, assuming your index finger is "C", middle finger "B", and ring finger "A", I would install black buttons where your thumb and pinky finger would be for the "L" & "R" shoulder buttons, then a 2nd row of 3 buttons above the C/B/A for the Z/Y/X buttons.  To match the ProController the Z/Y/X buttons "should" be smaller than the C/B/A with convex plungers, probably the same 24mm Sanwas I used for the keypad, or I could stick with full sized buttons and use iL PSL-L/CV convex buttons so they would be same look/feel of the C/B/A buttons, but only convex vs. concave.  Then I would probably use these same full-sized iL buttons for the L/R buttons.  To add room for the 2nd upper row of buttons, the buttons and joystick would need to move down about 1.5" - 2.0", but like you said, there is room.  

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the L/R/Z/Y/X buttons of the ProController simply map to keypad buttons?  If so, does anybody know, with certainty, which buttons correlate to which keypad inputs?

7=z 8=y 9=x 4=L  6=R

[doubledown]

Its definitely possible then...cost of the extra (5) buttons + extra machining time on the mill + extra wiring...would add approximately $60-$75 to price, depending on buttons chosen/selected.

[doubledown]

So I received the Jaguar test cart from Best today...so now I can easily test all of the functions of these controllers.  Fortunately mine works perfectly.  

 

Additionally I got a copy of Tempest 2000.  I played it briefly with a standard control pad...and I see the need/desire for the rotary control.  I ordered, and received today, an encoder and a few knobs to try to work this all out.  I'm not sure how soon I'll get to it...but I'm on the case!

[+davidcalgary29]

On 1/3/2020 at 7:15 PM, doubledown said:

So I received the Jaguar test cart from Best today...so now I can easily test all of the functions of these controllers.  Fortunately mine works perfectly.  

 

Additionally I got a copy of Tempest 2000.  I played it briefly with a standard control pad...and I see the need/desire for the rotary control.  I ordered, and received today, an encoder and a few knobs to try to work this all out.  I'm not sure how soon I'll get to it...but I'm on the case!

Your controller already looks very impressive...but the addition of a spinner would simply be amazing. I’d definitely buy one! I keep my Jag hooked up really just to play T2K, and this would be a dream come true.

[doubledown]

I might have some time this upcoming week to see if I can get the spinner working and how I like it.  Then it would be a matter of determining if it will ergonomically fit on this Enhanced Controller, or if I would need to bump up to the 20" enclosure.  

[Machine]

45 minutes ago, doubledown said:

I might have some time this upcoming week to see if I can get the spinner working and how I like it.  Then it would be a matter of determining if it will ergonomically fit on this Enhanced Controller, or if I would need to bump up to the 20" enclosure.  

 

Are you gonna offer them without the spinner(rotary) as well?

[doubledown]

If I can get it working, am satisfied with how well it works, and if I have confidence in it's "robustness", it could be an add-on option available.  

[doubledown]

@Rick Dangerous had asked about a 6-button Pro Controller (or possibly 8-button) variant.  While not exactly that...I was working on another controller which has a similar control layout:

 

 

So obviously this is an SNES controller, but I started with my Joystick & 3 Buttons template from the Jaguar controller I built.  I then slid the Jaguar's buttons up 3/8", then added the 2nd row below those.  In this case there is no keypad, but there is 2nd joystick (for Robotron: 2084, Smash TV, Total Carnage, Crazy Climber...all original twin-stick games), so the side to side spacing is clearly different, I just wanted to show what a 6-button layout would look like (and obviously verify that it would fit) if that was something somebody wanted in a Jaguar controller.  

 

Out of curiosity does anybody know how the Jaguar's port of Total Carnage is programmed control-wise.  For the 4 SNES games (listed above) that this controller was partially built for, those games were fortunately programmed to used the SNES's 4 buttons (which are in the shape of a d-pad) as the secondary controls, which allows this controller to have it's 2nd joystick wired as duplicate Y,X,A,B buttons for the necessary controls.  Something similar could be done for the Jaguar's port of Total Carnage depending on how it's programmed.