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Curt Vendel

XM has shipped!

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Personally I don't think I'll ever receive my XM, sad but true. What I do find amazing is Curt constantly digging at the VCS ataribox vapourware in his holier than thou way. They have only been waiting for 3 years for that to not arrive. 

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11 hours ago, Shawn said:

I'm curious how many XM's have been physically built on the hardware side of things over this span of time and are just waiting for this "consumer" BIOS revision to be sent out to the masses? I mean it's not like the BIOS not being ready for mass use can stop the already finalized hardware from being built. You would think that a large number of them will have been built since the last XM unit was shipped out to Synthapoloza right? They would be just sitting ready to get a fresh BIOS flash to get out the door I would hope?  I'm not being silly here either, I'd really like to know how many where built in the meantime from March 2nd till July 30th.

My spidy-senses are telling me a big fat zero.

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I left AtariAge in 2013....then came back in 2020, and I am absolutely floored that this thread is still here and people are still asking literally the same questions and getting vague/similar answers 7 years later. I fully expected this to have been done and submitted in my absence - and much like Stephen, I'm somewhere in the first handful of people to have preordered it.

 

Frankly, I'm indifferent about it and if it shows up, great, if it doesn't, that sucks, but what are people going to do. If we're all out $100+ or so it sucks, but it's better than a lot of other things that could happen. I'm no Positive Pollyanna that claims everyone being realistic is "HATERZ" either, though.

 

The end point of this is: Expectations were set about a product. Those expectations on the part of consumers may be reasonable or unreasonable. But as a producer, when you provide information that create whatever those expectations are, you should anticipate unhappy and unsatisfied consumers if you fail to deliver. There can be a million reasons for those failures, and those reasons may be valid, at which point the consumer needs to be understanding. BUT that doesn't completely shift the burden to the consumer to simply spout unicorns and rainbows 24/7 while fanboy gushing.

 

As several very experienced and incredibly smart creators on here have said, if you can't back up the words, don't say them to begin with - don't create the expectations in the first place if you don't have a solid and good faith belief that those deadlines will be met. And don't take money until you're absolutely ready to go for something. I don't hold breaking these rules against any creator. But I also think a creator should anticipate that failing to meet expectations will chafe buyers and make people (either understandably or not understandably) upset in some ways. Having an attitude that this is entirely "black and white" and taking sides (either the "fan club" or the "haters") is flogging a dead horse at this point - and it looked like that horse died long before I first left AtariAge in 2013.....

 

#1. Is it unreasonable for a product to take 10 years? ABSOLUTELY.

#2. Are there possibly justified reasons for the delay? PROBABLY.

#3. Are the creators doing this for the love of the hobby? ABSOLUTELY.

#4. Does that excuse blasting through reasonable deadlines? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

 

There can be a universe where all of these things are true; where failure to deliver is unacceptable to consumers BUT ALSO where it's potentially justified. The Venn Diagram has a middle, and we're square at it. The people who have complaints are justified. The people who are defending also have points. Both positions are true and valid, and arguing with each other over who's "right" or "wrong" ultimately is asinine (no offense).

 

If you're going to get out the pitchforks and torches, get them out and point them at the XM team, not at the "XM Defense Brigade", because the XM team's the one making the promises, not the AA users who rush to defend them.

 

If you're on the "XM Defense Brigade" don't rush to assume those with pitchforks and torches are the enemy. The XM team made their own bed as soon as they made promises. They don't need white knights to defend them, they're perfectly capable of providing their own justifications and rationales.

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I just really wish I could help out.  I'm not super strong in electronics, but have some background there, but am strong in software development, especially low level (having done Device Drivers and TSRs in DOS as well as Assembly Language for DesqView up through Windows 32-bit.  Some of it as a hobby, some professionally.  Unfortunately none of it is Atari specific though.  And there's this problem of having no spare time too.  😞

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What really gets my goat, is knowing that there are countless other parallel universes out there where the XM shipped years ago, triggering a period of 7800 nirvana for Atari fans.  Parallel me must be loving life.

 

 

It has now occurred to this me that we must fix this timeline in our universe.  We must travel back to...Oh no!  They found me!  I don't know how, but they found me... RUN FOR IT MARTY!!!

 

;)

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On 7/31/2020 at 8:01 PM, MattelAquarius said:

What really gets my goat, is knowing that there are countless other parallel universes out there where the XM shipped years ago, triggering a period of 7800 nirvana for Atari fans.  Parallel me must be loving life.

 

 

It has now occurred to this me that we must fix this timeline in our universe.  We must travel back to...Oh no!  They found me!  I don't know how, but they found me... RUN FOR IT MARTY!!!

 

;)

LOL. Thanks for that. Other than being locked, this thread needed levity.

I'm for waiting. 

This and the Commander X16 are the two things I really want.

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I am not a prepaid investor of this but the same person was making the same complaints about another Atari product years ago---

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/vendel$20harker$20catbox/comp.sys.atari.8bit/rvwTIqfKe-I/gLgTZ_IbpeIJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/vendel$20harker$20catbox/rec.games.video.atari/jdYBwGQHnxA/_oqjJP_kMAwJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/vendel$20harker$20catbox/alt.atari-jaguar/V514Prqfaqk/Z_D5o-h9Wh0J

 

I do not know what a catbox is and I am guessing it doesn't hold litter :)  But all the same things he complained about then could easily apply to this xm and people have been waiting for ten years?  Someone here talked about an alternate universe where this was finished and being enjoyed.  I think in this universe people should get a refund after waiting for so long.

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56 minutes ago, trapperkeeper said:

I am not a prepaid investor of this but the same person was making the same complaints about another Atari product years ago---

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/vendel$20harker$20catbox/comp.sys.atari.8bit/rvwTIqfKe-I/gLgTZ_IbpeIJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/vendel$20harker$20catbox/rec.games.video.atari/jdYBwGQHnxA/_oqjJP_kMAwJ

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/vendel$20harker$20catbox/alt.atari-jaguar/V514Prqfaqk/Z_D5o-h9Wh0J

 

I do not know what a catbox is and I am guessing it doesn't hold litter :)  But all the same things he complained about then could easily apply to this xm and people have been waiting for ten years?  Someone here talked about an alternate universe where this was finished and being enjoyed.  I think in this universe people should get a refund after waiting for so long.

Nobody in the Catbox fiasco got their money back (or their product).  I've officially stopped giving a single fuck about this.  Fool me with one or two false promises, shame on you.  Fool me with #40, and yeah.  I'm the idiot and shame on me.  I've given up on ever seeing it, the same as I will never see the VBXE2 nor the Amiga 500 I paid AA user sloopy $250 for.  VBXE was 8.5 years ago, Amiga was 2 years ago.  Lying thief never delivered, so I can kiss that $400+ goodbye. In the grand scheme of things, I can say the $100 I paid for this has given me ten years of entertaining threads.  That's way more fun than I'll ever get out of the 7800, with or without the XM :)

 

P.S.

Don't anyone ask if they can buy my order or take my place in line.  I'll answer in advance by saying "no".

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I, personally, and many others, I feel, have faith in Curt and the team. He's really been through a lot. If it were me, I'd have sent all the whiners their empty XM cases and said to hell with it.

 

I can wait. I have a lot of stuff in front of it anyway. If it showed up tomorrow, it would go to the bottom of the pile and wait its turn. It's now in a race with the Commander X16...

 

Think about it... 11 years after buying in, and this thing shows up and opens up a whole new era of games... Sounds like a win to me.

 

Edited by Zonie
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7 minutes ago, Zonie said:

It's now in a race with the Commander X16...

Jeez.

 

Go back and watch David's first video and then see what it morphed into along the way. Per the official website they still haven't decided what audio chip to use, or whether to go FPGA for sound, despite literally months of shitting on every constructive comment on the Facebook group suggesting they use FPGA or microcontrollers for stuff like keyboard, mouse, video and audio at the outset ... Oh, the hypocrisy of some of the people involved in that project ...

 

People should follow @mytek's model: tease a project, then go radio-silent until there's actually visible progress to announce. Don't let anyone sell anything related to it until it's done. 

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5 minutes ago, DrVenkman said:

People should follow @mytek's model: tease a project, then go radio-silent until there's actually visible progress to announce. Don't let anyone sell anything related to it until it's done.

 

This.

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43 minutes ago, Zonie said:

If it were me, I'd have sent all the whiners their empty XM cases and said to hell with it.

 

Why would you condone fraud?

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12 minutes ago, Zonie said:

Not fraud, "Fuck it"

 

 

Pleas send me some money and say that.  I promise unicorns with ancient game company logos on it.

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3 minutes ago, CPUWIZ said:

 

Pleas send me some money and say that.  I promise unicorns with ancient game company logos on it.

PM SENT!!!!!1!1!1!111!111

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On 8/7/2020 at 7:25 PM, DrVenkman said:

People should follow @mytek's model: tease a project, then go radio-silent until there's actually visible progress to announce. Don't let anyone sell anything related to it until it's done. 

I have teased about quite few things, and not all of them have seen the light of day. I'm also a firm believer in not selling or taking money for something until the design has been locked down. But that's just how I operate, and I realize everyone marches to his or her own drummer.

 

 

 

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I think the lesson to be learned here is that if you're going to do a project of this nature, it's best you have most of the development already done and ready to go. You see this happen with Kickstarter projects as well. Somebody has a grandiose plan to make some awesome product but they don't have the groundwork in place. So they get loads of interest and money, but then it fizzles out because the project ends up being more than they could chew.

 

It doesn't necessarily mean that it was a scam, it just means said the people proposing the project we're poorly organized and had not explored all of the challenges related to the project.

 

In the case of this project, I pre-ordered. I believe Curt meant well but that life and some considerable challenges got in the way. Add an unreliable project partner and the fact that a lot of the initial groundwork hadn't been put in place when pre-orders were taken, and you had a recipe for disaster. I also believe that Curt knows fully well how badly he messed this up. 

 

I expect I will get my XM eventually, because I believe Curt fully intended from the start to complete it. Plus, as sparse as the updates are, there has been progress... to the point now that various community programmers have test units and we know it works reliably. 

 

It's very easy for us to all gripe and complain about how long it's taking. And I fully understand everybody's frustration over the situation. At the same time, all of these complaints and irritation and anger have been hashed over and over and over again on these Forums. None of that has made project go any faster, or helped it towards completion. Frankly, I don't see the point of complaining at this point. It might make the person complaining feel better to vent, but it doesn't really have any purpose beyond that. We all know this thing is a mess. OK. Got it. Now what?

 

So I'm going to continue to wait quietly and occasionally ask for updates. Because I don't see any point in being part of the other options.

Edited by Lendorien
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Yeah, explain with more paragraphs how the buyers of a product shouldn't express disappointment with the the seller of the product.  The self-proclaimed  patient ones get upset because every few YEARS, patience wears thin, tempers flare and answers are demanded, and the people wanting accountability for their investment are basically told to sit down and shut up.

 

The amount of YEARS doesn't seem to trigger any light bulbs in your heads, the ridiculousness of your position.  

 

I would add also, you can't prove that the rowdy-ness hasn't pushed the ball forward on this project. And, you also cannot prove sitting idle and saying nothing has helped either. I think there's actually good evidence in older threads that people demanding answers have actually spurred a little bit of action, however.

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1 hour ago, Cobra Kai said:

I would add also, you can't prove that the rowdy-ness hasn't pushed the ball forward on this project. And, you also cannot prove sitting idle and saying nothing has helped either. I think there's actually good evidence in older threads that people demanding answers have actually spurred a little bit of action, however.

This is a valid point.

 

As an example my Cube64 fork I started back in 2011, by the end of 2011, I was pretty much completely unmotivated from working on it for various real life reason.

I had promised various features and bug fix that I never really worked on.

Through the years I kept getting emails asking for the current status and simply ignored them, until one day in fall 2017 I got yet another of those email but somehow instead of ignoring it I decided "OK let's do this!".

I worked again on the project through out 2018 fixing all the bugs and adding all the features and finally completing the project 100% by the end of that year.

In my case no money was involved since it's a DIY project and I never sold any but still I had given my word publicly.

 

So I would agree that waiting patiently certainly doesn't help one bit getting things done.

 

Bitching about it every day won't help for sure, but bitching every few months is fair enough I think.

Edited by DarthCloud
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1 hour ago, DarthCloud said:

This is a valid point.

 

As an example my Cube64 fork I started back in 2011, by the end of 2011, I was pretty much completely unmotivated from working on it for various real life reason.

I had promised various features and bug fix that I never really worked on.

Through the years I kept getting emails asking for the current status and simply ignored them, until one day in fall 2017 I got yet another of those email but somehow instead of ignoring it I decided "OK let's do this!".

I worked again on the project through out 2018 fixing all the bugs and adding all the features and finally completing the project 100% by the end of that year.

In my case no money was involved since it's a DIY project and I never sold any but still I had given my word publicly.

 

So I would agree that waiting patiently certainly doesn't help one bit getting things done.

 

Bitching about it every day won't help for sure, but bitching every few months is fair enough I think.

In the spirit of this thread, how about starting a new project to adapt the ProLine to work with standard N64 consoles? :P

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I've lightly followed this thread, because I never pre-ordered so it would be awhile before I could "buy" one. 

 

Anyway, am I to understand that the motherboard is final, and that the lone outstanding piece is the custom BIOS, which may or may not be completed?

Edited by Greg2600

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Curt is a good guy, personal life issues. I got out of the Atari scene long ago when I sold all my stuff, was sad at first but really haven’t looked back. Once or twice a year I peak in to find cool stuff, like the corvus emulator in altirra.

 

Life is short guys, make the best of it.

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Since tech has changed so much since it's announcement, if something like the XM was announced today, would this be easier to build? With the rise of FPGA, Analogue and so much other retro gaming goodies (Arcade 1Up etc.), from a tech standpoint, has anything made it easier to build? Was curious about this, not to change the topic (move if need be).

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I just heard that Curt Vendel passed away.

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Yeah, Marty is passing on the news in the various Atari and retro groups on Facebook. Goddamn. :(

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