cable converter

[newTIboyRob]

Hello all.  I recently acquired a few semi-recent flat screen monitors, with the typical blue 15 pin VGA female connectors on the back.  I also have the c64 composite cable which has the 5 din on one end connecting to the c64 and the red, white and yellow rca jacks at the other end.

 

So my question:  would buying a simple adapter such as this:  VGA to S-Video 3 RCA Composite AV Out Converter Adapter Cable For Laptop Pr R8H0 , work or do I need a more fancy converter type box?

 

Keep in mind that I am not looking for gaming quality, just a nice quality so I can view the monitors for basic typing purposes.

 

Thanks!

[carlsson]

In case you tried to include a link, it didn't work.

 

Bear in mind that X to Y is not the same thing as Y to X. Since it says VGA to S-Video, I would assume this is a cable that combines the RGB signals in a VGA connector into a S-Video or composite video signal so you can use it on a TV or more commonly a projector that doesn't have VGA input. In your case you are battling the exact opposite problem: you have a C64 that already outputs S-Video or composite video, and need a way to convert or split the signal into RGB, which is almost like converting bread to flour, yeast and oil.

 

There are converters that take e.g. composite video and output VGA or HDMI. I don't have any personal experience of such devices, but here is an example:

https://www.amazon.com/Laptop-Composite-S-Video-Converter-Adapter/dp/B075N462CL/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=composite+to+vga&qid=1583487245&s=electronics&sr=1-6

 

It probably does it job for basic typing, not sure what to expect from gaming. Also you would need a RCA to S-Video adapter. However the only ones I found from a quick search handle stereo audio (2 RCA jacks) + composite video (1 jack) which I didn't know existed in the S-Video world. You need an adapter that really extends both luma and chroma pins on the S-Video connector into two RCA jacks for plugging in your Commodore cable. You might find a such device if you look closely, but be beware that most of the ones you'll find are not configured as such.

https://www.amazon.com/NEORTX-S-Video-Conversion-Computer-Connector/dp/B07HCG83ZB/ref=sr_1_6?keywords=rca+to+s-video&qid=1583487397&sr=8-6

[mr_me]

Read the description for the listing.  It does not convert the video signal.  It requires a computer that already outputs an av signal through a vga connector.

 

Yes you need an active video converter that converts composite video to vga.  And as Carlsson advised direction is important.

[newTIboyRob]

Ok, since I am not familiar with this, what occurred to me is that there is a difference between a splitter type concept, like a pass through box and an actual signal converter.  That was the preliminary concept I was missing.  Your analogy of baking ingredients crystallized that for me, so thank you first off.

 

1.  Ok, so to begin with, I need a converter.  Would the one I found below be the equivalent of the one in your first link above? (found it for a few bucks cheaper, not sure why it didn't provide a link, but copy and paste always works) ?

  RCA to VGA Adapter, Composite AV S-Video RCA VGA Female Input to VGA Female Output Converter, Transfer Video Graphic Signal from CCTV PC Laptop DVD DVR VCR TVBox to VGA Monitor Projector Computer

 

2. The item in your second link above is needed to handle the red and white audio and the yellow video for the converter box

 

 

So... is the setup connection I need to do a combination of 1. and 2. above, which is:

 

my composite cable connected to back of c64, its ends connecting into the  NEORTX S-Video (4 Pin) to 3 RCA AV Female Cable Audio Video Adapter Conversion Laptop PC Computer Connector, with the 4 pin S video part of that cable connecting to the converter box, then finally out of the blue output port on the side of the converter box connecting via the monitor's blue VGA cable to the back of the monitor?

 

Whew... I hope that is it.

Please advise, thanks!

 

 

 

[carlsson]

The forum software seems to hate you. No links this time as well.

 

I suppose the S-Video to VGA adapter you found is this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Composite-Converter-Transfer-Projector-Computer/dp/B081SBNJ58

 

When it comes to the S-Video to RCA splitter cable, it strikes me that the 4-pin mini-DIN usually associated with S-Video has been reused for other purposes. Basically the original pinout has chrominance ground on pin 1, luminance ground on pin 2, chrominance on pin 3 and luminance on pin 4, no support for audio on the S-Video connection.

 

It means two things:

 

1. By using the above S-Video to VGA adapter, you will obviously not get any sound because neither "real" S-Video nor VGA supports it. You'd need to wire up audio through some other means.

 

2. All those RCA to S-Video splitter cables found on eBay and Amazon, including the one I linked to above, are non-standard and somehow intended for some kind of laptops which have 4-pin mini-DIN connectors for composite video + stereo audio, deceivingly alike S-Video while they aren't.

 

I know from similar personal experience with those 3.5 mm plugs with three bands that also carry video + stereo audio that the pinout of which band has video, which two have audio and which band has common ground differs for each major manufacturer! In principle I think luminance ground and chrominance ground are the same thing, at least from the C64 side of things, but could be a hit and miss using an above splitter cable.

 

If you would be to solder your own adapter, it would look like this one: http://sta.c64.org/cbmsvideo.html

 

Even if you go back to using the Magnavox 15MF400T/37 you mentioned in the other thread, you would need the above type of adapter unless you put your old C64 video cable aside and buy a ready-made composite video cable instead. This is the cheapest two I could find on eBay:

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/223710622233 (China)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/333308124696 (Italy)

 

This cable has slightly lower video quality than the S-Video cable, but would be far easier to connect to the Magnavox, or even the VGA adapter above but yet again you would need to find a separate solution for the audio.

 

Sorry for this being quite complicated, but that is what happens when you try to put a square bolt into a round hole.

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by carlsson

[newTIboyRob]

Wow, thank you for the explanation.  This is both depressing and discouraging.

 

Simple question:  what is the way many people today hook up all the computers I have:  C64, Atari 800 XL, TI99 4/A .... if it is this confusing?  I have some old small tv's which I am about to trash because they are barely viewable.

 

What do people today often use as monitors with these computers???

[newTIboyRob]

And is there a relatively inexpensive, simple, direct way to do so?

[mr_me]

People just use a TV that has composite or RF input.  Some do a better job than others but they should all provide a picture.

[carlsson]

I think people either use a flat screen TV like the Magnavox (or newer) that still has inputs for composite video, in Europe also SCART with RGB, or they use a HDMI capable TV and an upscaler similar to the VGA converter but one that outputs HDMI instead. Yet again those come in different price ranges with varying degree of how good they are.

 

The S-Video is kind of a special case, in particular in the context of Commodore monitors as those take the signal through two separate RCA connectors (like your existing cable) rather than the 4-pin mini-DIN which became more popular later on.

 

Previously you wrote that you "have the white C64 and found I had the composite video cable for use with a modern flat screen monitor (cable with din on one end for the back of the C64 ending with RCA red, white audio and yellow video cable on other end" but it didn't become clear if this is equipment you've owned for decades or something you just recently bought. If you look at the big DIN connector on the video cable, does it have eight pins or just five pins? It strikes me that if you bought it recently, you might already have a cable wired for composite video only plus that someone thought it is better to split the mono audio into left + right. I know such cables also float around, so without a detailed image of the cable I have for the past four days assumed your existing cable is for S-Video but perhaps it isn't...

[newTIboyRob]

I found the composite cable's package. I bought it in february 2015 and is a 5 pin DIN

[carlsson]

Oh, great! That makes things easier as we can completely eliminate both the S-Video aspect and the need for another cable.

 

It brings us back to the VGA adapter as linked on Amazon. It would allow you to display the video on one of your PC monitors, probably with some lag and perhaps not a perfect image. If your PC monitor is of the kind to have speakers and a separate audio input, you could find a cheap adapter (if required) to connect the fake stereo audio to it, and you're done. If it doesn't have speakers, you should see if you can find some small amplifyer or active speakers that let you connect the audio signal.

[newTIboyRob]

When you mention VGA adapter, you are referring to the first link in post #5 above, or which exactly?

[newTIboyRob]

And would I still need the NEORTX in post #2's link?

[carlsson]

Yes, the VGA adapter in post #5 and you don't need any additional RCA adapter cables because your cable after all turns out to have composite video + (fake) stereo sound. So only one purchase to do if you want to try to use one of your PC screens for the C64, TI-99/4A, Atari 800XL etc.

[newTIboyRob]

excellent, and thank you for all your help on this journey!

[newTIboyRob]

ok, so I ordered the VGA adapter like we said in post #5, and not any additional RCA adapter cable.

 

So this means that the red and white audio jacks of my composite cable will not be plugged in anywhere at all, just sitting on the table unused, since the "fake" stereo audio is accounted for in the composite cable?

 

[Isn't this the situation here since the 5 pin DIN of my composite cable connects to the back of the c64, its yellow video RCA goes into the VGA adapter's "IN" port located at the side of the VGA adapter box, and a VGA cable runs from the VGA "OUT" port of the VGA adapter into the VGA "IN" port on the monitor?]

 

Can you just verify if everything I mentioned in this post is correct?

[newTIboyRob]

*** oops, above should have been... the yellow video RCA port at the back, not the side, of the adapter box.

 

But still, is all my information otherwise correct about the unused red and white audio RCA plugs?

[mr_me]

If you want sound, the red/white jacks should go to an audio receiver.  Composite video does not carry audio.  Does your monitor have speakers and audio input?

[newTIboyRob]

Oh, I thought a previous post mentioned that my composite cable did carry stereo sound?  I thought it was equivalent to the standard video cable from c64 connecting to RF switch on an old tv which always had sound?

[mr_me]

An rf signal would have audio and video combined but you would need a television tuner to receive it.  The c64 has an rf output but it's not in the din connector.  A display with vga input would have to have separate audio input anyway.

Edited March 7, 2020 by mr_me

[carlsson]

mr_me is correct. You will get video through the yellow composite video cable, but in order to get any sound you will need to either plug that directly into your monitor, in case it has speakers at all (uncommon, but not unheard of) or find another solution like an amplifier or active speakers.

[newTIboyRob]

Oh I see, I wasn't aware that the c64 's rf output is not in the din connector, and true, it does make sense that the vga input monitor would in fact need separate audio.

Ok, very well, thank you mr_me and carlsson, I'll get something to complete this situation 

[carlsson]

A set of PC speakers, perhaps something you can find at a thrift store for $5, could do the job but you might need some cheap, passive adapter from the two male RCA on the cable to whatever the speaker set would require.