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ave1

Got the X-Arcade Tankstick and PC mice/PC trackballs working with the 5200

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Posted (edited)

I've had some good fortune getting PC mouse compatibility with Ikonsgr's USB mouse to 9 pin systems adapter connected to the 9 pin to 5200 controller adapter that he makes.

 

The catch is that:

#1) only mice and trackballs that have PS/2 compatibility will work (and those that have PS/2 plugs need to be adapted to USB with a cheap little green PS/2 to USB adapter).

#2) This only works with the digital games (not the 6 analog-only games like Missile Command).  Also, it won't work well with 2012's Tempest- so now we're up to 7 games with issues. Dreadnaught Factor also has an issue with setting the forward speed of your ship, so that would make it 8.  62 games can work with it,  though... so that's a little over 90% of them.

 

The really great news is that #1 can be remedied by buying an Aten KVM switch that converts USB (non-PS/2) mice and trackballs into PS/2 compatible devices.  These are not cheap (over $50), but can open up possibilities of playing your 5200 with some quite interesting controllers, including the X-Arcade Tankstick which has a trackball (shown in the picture below) and this as well: https://www.ign.com/articles/2006/02/03/x-arcade-trackball-review

 

The video below starts with using the 2600 and then goes on to the 7800.  The 5200 part (with full explanation on how you connect the Tankstick up) starts a little after you reach the 20 minute point and lasts about 10 minutes with gameplay of Gyruss, Meteorites, and Beamrider included. I also play Robotron 2084 with the dual sticks (I've described the adapters used to accomplish that in the description of the video- which requires watching it on the actual YouTube website).   Hope you get something good out of this :)

 

 

When it comes to Ikonsgr's products, they get bought up quickly and then he restocks them. So if you notice something is out of stock, keep checking back.

 

Here are appropriate links fo the products:

 

The PC USB mouse/trackball to 9 pin Atari adapter:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Mouse-Adapter-For-Atari-ST-Amiga-Amstrad-Commodore-9pin-DB9-Joystick-Port/274204936054

 

The Atari 5200 adapter for 9 pin controller compatibility (2600 and Sega Genesis controllers):  https://ebay.us/st9QHv

 

Here are two links for the PS/2 to USB mini green adapter (1st one may not be based in the U.S. & is cheaper):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00UMX89XA#Ask


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009GUV4UK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_MOoDEb7Y5HZVV

 

The Aten KVM Switch (Model CS82U) is necessary to get non-PS/2 mice and trackballs working on your Atari systems and is found here: 

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004QOBZXM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_ZgpDEbQPRJ199

Edited by ave1
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On 3/20/2020 at 10:20 PM, ave1 said:

I've had some good fortune getting PC mouse compatibility with Ikonsgr's USB mouse to 9 pin systems adapter connected to the 9 pin to 5200 controller adapter that he makes.

 

The catch is that:

#1) only mice and trackballs that have PS/2 compatibility will work (and those that have PS/2 plugs need to be adapted to USB with a cheap little green PS/2 to USB adapter).

#2) This only works with the digital games (not the 6 analog-only games like Missile Command).  Also, it won't work well with 2012's Tempest- so now we're up to 7 games with issues. Dreadnaught Factor also has an issue with setting the forward speed of your ship, so that would make it 8.  62 games can work with it,  though... so that's a little over 90% of them.

 

The really great news is that #1 can be remedied by buying an Aten KVM switch that converts USB (non-PS/2) mice and trackballs into PS/2 compatible devices.  These are not cheap (over $50), but can open up possibilities of playing your 5200 with some quite interesting controllers, including the X-Arcade Tankstick which has a trackball (shown in the picture below) and this as well: https://www.ign.com/articles/2006/02/03/x-arcade-trackball-review

 

The video below starts with using the 2600 and then goes on to the 7800.  The 5200 part (with full explanation on how you connect the Tankstick up) starts a little after you reach the 20 minute point and lasts about 10 minutes with gameplay of Gyruss, Meteorites, and Beamrider included. I also play Robotron 2084 with the dual sticks (I've described the adapters used to accomplish that in the description of the video- which requires watching it on the actual YouTube website).   Hope you get something good out of this :)

 

 

When it comes to Ikonsgr's products, they get bought up quickly and then he restocks them. So if you notice something is out of stock, keep checking back.

 

Here are appropriate links fo the products:

 

The PC USB mouse/trackball to 9 pin Atari adapter:  https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-Mouse-Adapter-For-Atari-ST-Amiga-Amstrad-Commodore-9pin-DB9-Joystick-Port/274204936054

 

The Atari 5200 adapter for 9 pin controller compatibility (2600 and Sega Genesis controllers):  https://ebay.us/st9QHv

 

Here are two links for the PS/2 to USB mini green adapter (1st one may not be based in the U.S. & is cheaper):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00UMX89XA#Ask


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009GUV4UK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_MOoDEb7Y5HZVV

 

The Aten KVM Switch (Model CS82U) is necessary to get non-PS/2 mice and trackballs working on your Atari systems and is found here: 

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004QOBZXM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_ZgpDEbQPRJ199

Great video! I've got one of the mouse to joystick adapters from ikonsgr and a KVM switch around here somewhere. I'd like to try it out with my Kensington Expert mouse which is USB only with the KVM switch. I'll have to try out some configurations with it and see what I come up with on the 7800 and 5200.

 

BTW, Centipede is king of a strange type of analog setup as it has only two analog speeds: slow at about 50% of the joystick range in a direction and fast at 100%, there is no real continuum of analog speeds as you move the stick further in a direction, just the two. When you use a digital controller, you only get the fast speed. I imagine on the 5200 trak-ball you only get the two speeds as well. So, it works with the mouse as a joystick mouse method you are using, but only has fast speed. As far as the 2600 trak-ball or C64 mouse, not sure what would happen - if you get variable speed on centipede or not.

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6 hours ago, 0078265317 said:

Also if could ask ikons to rewire this adapter you mentioned to get the genesis 8bitdo adapter working that would be awesome.

 

https://ebay.us/st9QHv

Since he doesn't have a 5200 to experiment with, that might not be happening... but maybe he can figure out whatever the issue happens to be empirically and then send the redesigned adapter to you or me for testing.  Not sure that'll happen, but you never know.

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Swami- I'm glad you have a KVM switch- hopefully with both USB input and PS/2 output.   Let me know how it goes.

 

I think 7800 Centipede plays better than the 5200 version with the Tankstick trackball because the movement is not extremely fast. 

 

When it comes to your question of using the 2600 trakball on 5200 Centipede with adapters (or the Commodore 1351 mouse), I'll check today to see if the speed is variable.

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18 hours ago, ave1 said:

Swami- I'm glad you have a KVM switch- hopefully with both USB input and PS/2 output.   Let me know how it goes.

 

I think 7800 Centipede plays better than the 5200 version with the Tankstick trackball because the movement is not extremely fast. 

 

When it comes to your question of using the 2600 trakball on 5200 Centipede with adapters (or the Commodore 1351 mouse), I'll check today to see if the speed is variable.

It does work with 1 button 7800 games but goes kind of crazy with two button games, neither works with a straight hook-up and going between auto-firing on both buttons with the Seagull78. I don't think it likes the way pins 5 and 9 are tied to 6 with resistors. Microcontroller firmware can be finicky in my experience. I've thought about trying the SMS auto-fire adapter method you tried once for SMS sticks on the 7800, but I can't seem to find it, so, will have to hunt around.:? 

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On 3/22/2020 at 7:43 AM, ave1 said:

Since he doesn't have a 5200 to experiment with, that might not be happening...

Or lets find him a cheap 5200 he can buy so he can test finally.  What country is he?

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On 3/22/2020 at 7:59 AM, ave1 said:

Swami- I'm glad you have a KVM switch- hopefully with both USB input and PS/2 output.   Let me know how it goes.

 

I think 7800 Centipede plays better than the 5200 version with the Tankstick trackball because the movement is not extremely fast. 

 

When it comes to your question of using the 2600 trakball on 5200 Centipede with adapters (or the Commodore 1351 mouse), I'll check today to see if the speed is variable.

Okay. So I found that by combining the Seagull78 and sega rapid fire between the 7800 and the mouse joystick adapter, it now works on the 7800 with both buttons, like an SMS controller would. I guess that indicates the Amiga outputs on the mouse/joystick adapter are more like a Sega Master System controller than a Genesis controller., which makes sense.

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On 3/22/2020 at 7:59 AM, ave1 said:

Swami- I'm glad you have a KVM switch- hopefully with both USB input and PS/2 output.   Let me know how it goes.

 

I think 7800 Centipede plays better than the 5200 version with the Tankstick trackball because the movement is not extremely fast. 

 

When it comes to your question of using the 2600 trakball on 5200 Centipede with adapters (or the Commodore 1351 mouse), I'll check today to see if the speed is variable.

Unfortunately, I seem to have hidden my KVM switch really well, probably thinking I had little use for it, like you. So, I probably won't be testing it with the usb Kensington Expert mouse anytime soon. The Kensington Expert Mouse seems to have skipped over the ps/2 era completely, somehow, going directly from serial to USB.

 

update: found it

update2: This is the KVM I have.

https://www.amazon.com/Linkskey-Adapter-Keyboard-Mouse-LKV-PUC01/dp/B00FWK3YHE/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

It is pretty pricey at $80, especially as it doesn't seem to work all that well. In centipede the movement was laggy and like the wand is moving on slippery ice. Also, I don't know if it's just my 5200, but the pin9 power could not power both the ikonsgr 9pin to 5200 adapter, mouse/joystick converter and the KVM, so I had to use my homemade one with power on pin12. Hopefully, your KVM works better.

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On 3/22/2020 at 7:59 AM, ave1 said:

Swami- I'm glad you have a KVM switch- hopefully with both USB input and PS/2 output.   Let me know how it goes.

 

I think 7800 Centipede plays better than the 5200 version with the Tankstick trackball because the movement is not extremely fast. 

 

When it comes to your question of using the 2600 trakball on 5200 Centipede with adapters (or the Commodore 1351 mouse), I'll check today to see if the speed is variable.

I saw a KVM like yours on eBay for $15, so I nabbed it. Does this one plug into the wall?

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14 hours ago, Swami said:

I saw a KVM like yours on eBay for $15, so I nabbed it. Does this one plug into the wall?

It does plug into the wall- but I had to use a power supply of my own for it (since it didn't come with one)- my video has the info in the description on what the power specifications are.  That's great you found the one I have for such a great price :)

 

I did try Centipede with the C64 mouse (model 1351) as well as the Atari CX-22 Trakball connected to my Atariguy1021 Masterplay Clone and got equal results:  The movement is fast, but when I slow down you can tell there's pulse modulation going on (your shooter jitters from one position quickly to the next position, but the distance traveled is maybe a half a centimeter from position 1 to 2, and then to the next position that's another half centimeter away... so, in a way,  it's moving slow, while at the same time moving fast. 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/23/2020 at 11:59 PM, Swami said:

Okay. So I found that by combining the Seagull78 and sega rapid fire between the 7800 and the mouse joystick adapter, it now works on the 7800 with both buttons, like an SMS controller would. I guess that indicates the Amiga outputs on the mouse/joystick adapter are more like a Sega Master System controller than a Genesis controller., which makes sense.

Oh wow- cool!  I'll have to try that out sometime tomorrow and add a comment about it in the description of my video. Thanks for thinking to try that out!  Now Alien Brigade, Commando, Crack'd, and Planet Smashers might be a little extra fun :)

Edited by ave1

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Posted (edited)

I have actually enquired of the guy who runs the Blissbox company that he consider adding Sega mouse compatibility to his Sega Genesis-related 9 pin-to-USB adapter.  I sent my Sega Genesis Mouse to him so he could run some tests and see what he could do to implement some compatibility. In the end, he said it wasn't a viable project because of the way the electronics work in it, and he sent it right back to me. 

 

He later sent me an email letting me know that he may be able to get a Sega mouse working after all now that he had figured some things out.  I asked that he let me know if he decides to produce this new version. That was 3 and a half months ago and I still haven't heard back from him...

 

If he does end up succeeding, I may want to try that mouse out on my PS3 to see if some of my backward-compatible PS1 classic compilations discs like Konami Arcade Classics and Midway Collection 2 would have some interesting results.

Edited by ave1
forgot the source for mouse-testing was the maker of Blissbox... and not Raphnet

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