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Loco-Motion (M-Network) does anyone on the board have it?

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its out there but not traded in vcs networks as vast as this-- 

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Quickest and most forward answer is that yes it exists and no you can't have it.

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is it traded among a small elite group of atari collectors, a small elite group?

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just was wondering- so fascinating story!  was reading about it on the m-network history page

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im sure the small circle of elite atari collectors wouldn't even accept me- my post history has way too much about how i love the sega 1650 as the vcs godsend.....

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Last I heard Blue Sky Rangers have it safely locked away along with all the other M-Network protos that exist.

 

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A pity that the prototype version is not released to the public!😐

The alternative would be to start a new version of Locomotion from scratch!
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Blue Sky Rangers haven’t released any of their protos that are licensed - too much legal risk.

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14 hours ago, alfredtdk said:
The alternative would be to start a new version of Locomotion from scratch!

 

I think that this is an excellent idea -- if the game is created without any access to the original code, there will be no copyright infringement. Look at the "clean room" technique used to create the Phoenix BIOS for PC clones. One is creating an entirely new game, based on a description (and screenshots) of an existing game, but without having seen/played the original. The underlying code base will, necessarily, be completely different. 

 

Many years ago, I developed a game for the Coco based upon a game on (IIRC) the Timex Sinclair 1000. I never saw or played the original, but there was a detailed write-up in a magazine that discussed the game mechanics and showed the screens. I used those specifications as the design document for my game.   

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14 hours ago, ubersaurus said:

Blue Sky Rangers haven’t released any of their protos that are licensed - too much legal risk.

This hasn't stopped others to release their protos. And AFAIK there were no problems. And even if you are afraid of an official release due to these risks, you can still silently leak the ROMs.

 

I have the (subjective) feeling that the motivation is different.

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It would be nice to see some of those titles. I'm especially interested in Tower of Mystery and Treasure of Tarmin.

 

And wasn't Rocky & Bullwinkle a BSR title? That one's out there isn't it?

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Rocky & Bullwinkle slipped by before they vaulted everything. Sword Fight and Sea Battle have also been publicly available as well, since long ago.

 

What your describing regarding “homebrewing” LocoMotion has also already been done with AntEater.

 

It’s not like they have some huge amazing cache. Half their protos are out already. What’s left in that vault? A crappier version of Ant Eater that nobody cares about now. And LocoMotion, which will likely suffer the same fate now that you’ve brought it some more attention.

 

Besides that, it’s just 3 incomplete, buggy as hell, practically unplayable “adventure quest” games. (Golden Skull and the 2 AD&D titles) Hardly worth the effort really. (2600 wise anyhow, as their ColecoVision HeMan does cause some people to salivate) 

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8 hours ago, Thomas Jentzsch said:

This hasn't stopped others to release their protos. And AFAIK there were no problems. And even if you are afraid of an official release due to these risks, you can still silently leak the ROMs.

 

I have the (subjective) feeling that the motivation is different.

Well sure - other people have found copies of some of their unreleased games and released the roms. It’s deeply unlikely anyone cares about Rocky and Bullwinkle or Anteater or whatever, but they’ve been up front for years that they don’t want to expose themselves legally regardless of how unlikely it is (especially since the games of theirs they did put out were sold on cart). I don’t see any reason to suspect otherwise.

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Look at the Zoo Keepers case, there was only sound, no graphics!
And now a totally incredible and faithful version of Arcade is coming out!
I hope that Loco-Motion can follow the same path of this new wave of remakes for the Atari 2600!
Who knows, maybe Elevator Action will also get a totally new version with new graphics and sound!

Dreaming doesn't cost!😃

 

 

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On 4/13/2020 at 1:12 AM, Foxsolo2000 said:

Last I heard Blue Sky Rangers have it safely locked away along with all the other M-Network protos that exist.

 

 

Yup.

 

locomotion_front.png

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Holy Cow!

 

128kb of rom data AND two additional IC’s!

 

I totally take back what I said about the games being crappy; well, at least in regards to LocoMotion!

 

That’s a bad ass cart man!

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1 hour ago, Supergun said:

Holy Cow!

 

128kb of rom data AND two additional IC’s!

 

I totally take back what I said about the games being crappy; well, at least in regards to LocoMotion!

 

That’s a bad ass cart man!

 

Well that 16k and extra support didn't do much for them as you mentioned. I've seen what it looks like on the 2600 and I totally understand why it wasn't released. It's a turd even by 2600 standards.

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Some games that the Intellivision could handle with ease just don't scale well to the 2600, no matter how much extra ROM and RAM you pack into the cartridge, and I think Loco-Motion is one of those.  BurgerTime was another, although I appreciate Ron Surratt's valiant effort with his 2600 version.

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26 minutes ago, jaybird3rd said:

Some games that the Intellivision could handle with ease just don't scale well to the 2600, no matter how much extra ROM and RAM you pack into the cartridge, and I think Loco-Motion is one of those.  BurgerTime was another, although I appreciate Ron Surratt's valiant effort with his 2600 version.

 

Burgertime is a masterpiece compared to locomotion! :lol:

 

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2 hours ago, jaybird3rd said:

Some games that the Intellivision could handle with ease just don't scale well to the 2600, no matter how much extra ROM and RAM you pack into the cartridge, and I think Loco-Motion is one of those. 

What I have seen and read doesn't look that bad.

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6 hours ago, Supergun said:

Holy Cow!

 

128kb of rom data AND two additional IC’s!

 

I totally take back what I said about the games being crappy; well, at least in regards to LocoMotion!

 

That’s a bad ass cart man!

 

Two EPROM's, totaling 16KB, their custom bankswitching chip and a SRAM chip (I think Toshiba 2KB).

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Posted (edited)
On 4/14/2020 at 12:45 PM, jhd said:

 

I think that this is an excellent idea -- if the game is created without any access to the original code, there will be no copyright infringement. Look at the "clean room" technique used to create the Phoenix BIOS for PC clones. One is creating an entirely new game, based on a description (and screenshots) of an existing game, but without having seen/played the original. The underlying code base will, necessarily, be completely different. 

 

Many years ago, I developed a game for the Coco based upon a game on (IIRC) the Timex Sinclair 1000. I never saw or played the original, but there was a detailed write-up in a magazine that discussed the game mechanics and showed the screens. I used those specifications as the design document for my game.   

If you make a new 2600 game that looks like locomotion, while you're not infringing intellivision entertainment's copyright on the program you're still infringing konami's copyright on the graphics.  Music is public domain.

 

On 4/14/2020 at 1:37 PM, Thomas Jentzsch said:

This hasn't stopped others to release their protos. And AFAIK there were no problems. And even if you are afraid of an official release due to these risks, you can still silently leak the ROMs.

 

I have the (subjective) feeling that the motivation is different.

What are you thinking is their motivation?  That they plan on one day licensing and selling the game?  They might be finally getting some licenses for some Intellivision games that they haven't been able to use in emulation compilations.  Or are you thinking of something else.

 

If somebody else has a prototype, why don't they share it.

Edited by mr_me

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6 minutes ago, mr_me said:

What are you thinking is their motivation? 

No clue, and I won't speculate here. But legal reasons alone do not explain it for me. And even if that is the sole reason, why not leaking them?

 

8 minutes ago, mr_me said:

If you make a new 2600 game that looks like locomotion, while you're not infringing intellivision entertainment's copyright on the program you're still infringing konami's copyright on the graphics.

I suppose the TIA graphics are abstract enough, no? And I cannot see anything in the existing prototype graphics which could be copyrighted. Everything looks very generic to me. 

 

Now, if e.g. an ARM based game would replicate the original look much more closely, that might result in some trouble.

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Well, for that matter, the “legal argument” itself has not only never explained the BSR position to me, it’s also never had any real foundation to it.

 

Say for example the case of Ant Eater. How does this old, out dated, and little known 80’s game even begin to compare to the likes of PacMan, Galaga, and Mappy?

 

And yet these hugely popular & well known 80’s games have had 2600 versions done and there was no drama from the likes of the NAMCO giant. So where does the argument even hold water to have a “fear” or “concern” of some LOSER NOBODY LONG GONE company like “Tago Electronics” that 99% of the public has never heard of!?

 

Now, mind you, Loco Motion is Konami. And Konami is indeed a giant. But LocoMotion ain’t no CastleVania, Contra, or Gradius! I don’t even think Konami themselves puts LocoMotion on their own classic compilations and re-releases. Do you honestly think they will notice or care if some barely recognizable 2600 version of their 40 year old game magically appears on the internet?

 

Puleeeaaassseee....

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