Jump to content
Simius

Sophia 2 - improved GTIA replacement

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Rybags said:

A question for PAL machine owners who already have DVI capability:  Do LCD monitors generally accept a 50 Hz signal or is it a roll of the dice?

Well, my Viewsonic 950b Pro (Monitor) does... I bought this one for $40, from a surplus vendor... and this monitor is rather old, by today standards.

 

Normally, when it comes to MONITORS (not LCD-TVs) supported frame-rates are stated on the spec. If 50Hz does not show up anywhere, you can assume it won't. In the case of VP930B, it pretty much takes everything (overlay screen is the video processor, from where I can rate-adapt any of my inputs to pretty much anything I want, out through DVI):

 

50BFD8F1-0905-4034-BEDF-82961B9C7FAC.thumb.jpeg.5507d222854608851168a77f4661a874.jpeg

 

Actual image source is a PAL (analog) output from XEP80 (which is a heart-braker for almost any CRT out-there) landing on DVDO iScan and then rate-shaped with on-board time-base conversion, then out through DVI to VP950b, unlocked below 50 Hz, just for testing...)

Edited by Faicuai
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, youxia said:

So is it possible to connect this new board to a PAL CRT TV with RGB SCART socket?

 

Yes, it is possible. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/23/2020 at 7:36 AM, Simius said:

The new Sophia 2 board will be available soon.

Feaures:

- 100% compatible GTIA replacement

- PAL/NTSC encoding

- Independent RGB/YPbPr/VGA and DVI outputs

- eight selectable DVI modes

- 15 loadable 18-bit color palettes

 

 

Sophia2.thumb.jpg.914b1dc8d0200632b1291fe36a29bfab.jpg

 

 

 

palette.jpg

SOPHIA2en_1_1.pdf 75.91 kB · 230 downloads

Simius, is it possible to reflash the FPGA in the Sophia 1 to bring over some and / or all of the new hardware features on the Sophia 2?  If possible, this would provide a "hardware-feature upgrade path" for current Sophia 1 owners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An additional advantage is a simplicity of the color system change (NTSC to PAL or vice versa). All you need is to change ANTIC and the main crystal/oscillator. A 4.433MHz crystal and 74LS74 IC are not needed. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Simius said:

 

Yes, it is possible. 

Thank you. You can count my pledge from the pre-order thread as valid.

 

Could you give us any estimate of when they will be available? Even a very rough one would do...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I get this installed in my 5200, will it be compatible with my Sony 4K TV? I hear that the Sophia 1 had compatibility issues with TVs as opposed to VGA monitors, so I’m really hoping this new model fixes that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Excuse my ignorance but when I have seen installs I saw that the modulator had been removed, is this a must do or can it be left on the board?

 

If its just to make room for mounting the socket then I'd rather have the socket floating

Edited by Mclaneinc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said:

Excuse my ignorance but when I have seen installs I saw that the modulator had been removed, is this a must do or can it be left on the board?

 

If its just to make room for mounting the socket then I'd rather have the socket floating

I think this is purely so you can use the port area for the new socket. Certainly that was the case with mine. I was never going to use the modulator again ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah, thank you...I'm just think of keeping it fairly stock should I ever need to sell it and it might as well have a working modulator just in case someone likes a horrible RF display :)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Mclaneinc said:

Excuse my ignorance but when I have seen installs I saw that the modulator had been removed, is this a must do or can it be left on the board?

 

If its just to make room for mounting the socket then I'd rather have the socket floating

Yep as Ely stated, The original Atari will work exactly the same as it did before, all the original Video processing is still onboard, and remains working. The Sophia2 will sit underneath the original GTIA chip, and processes the  video for DVI / RGB all will be done on its board, the only requirement is to get the signals out of the computer.

I've two of the original Sophia's and I think their brilliant, although I really need to re-program one of them as although it shows up, the display is very wide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, WaverBoy said:

If I get this installed in my 5200, will it be compatible with my Sony 4K TV? I hear that the Sophia 1 had compatibility issues with TVs as opposed to VGA monitors, so I’m really hoping this new model fixes that.

That I think would be a difficult answer to confirm, all TV's appear to cope in different ways when seeing a sub 4K signal. (although usually perfectly able to handel 1080 fine.)

These flags sets the DVI output resolution as follows:
RES2 RES1 RES0 Resolution Aspect Ratio
0 0 0 480p/576p 3:2/5:4
0 0 1 1280x960 4:3
0 1 0 1280x1024 5:4
0 1 1 1344x960 14:10
1 0 0 1440x900 16:10
1 0 1 1536x960 16:10
1 1 0 1600x900 16:9
1 1 1 1704x960 16:9

with the highest being 1704x960 so entirely down to how Sony handle this in their products, and may even differ from one model to the next.

Just remember the original Atari resolution still in effect remains at 384 pixels wide, Sophia, and the TV both have to use more pixels to get to 3840 of a 4K seems easy multiply Atari's one pixel to show 10 on the 4K screen, however this is unlikely to look very nice. Better with a black edge, Atari output screen, followed by another black edge to the TV's edge.

also the height needs to look about right .

Atari 192 scan lines don't easily fit into 2160 you need 11.25 lines again usual to cut off top and bottom of screen and leave something that looks o.k in the middle. 

You could in theory fit in 112 full Atari resolution screens on a 4K TV ..    8294400/73728 =112.5

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cool, so placing the sophia connection anywhere is the way to go, when they unearth these machines 150 years or a thousand years from now, I'd like to give them every chance  to get it up and running, figuring out all the displays as they go. Chopping stuff out when not an absolute necessity kind of destroys possibilities and character of the machines

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Simply_Graham said:

The Sophia2 will sit underneath the original GTIA chip

I don't think so, look at the  board and you'll see there is no place for the original GTIA to plug into.

Sophia2.thumb.jpg.718ea4c88335ec7b1f7736d8c54deead.jpg

This new version is completely replacing the original GTIA, so as Simius stated just recently when going from NTSC to PAL, all that is required is to change the Antic and primary oscillator crystal.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/29/2020 at 12:51 PM, Simius said:

An additional advantage is a simplicity of the color system change (NTSC to PAL or vice versa). All you need is to change ANTIC and the main crystal/oscillator. A 4.433MHz crystal and 74LS74 IC are not needed. 

Simius, if the Antic and primary crystal has been changed to PAL after installing the Sophia2, does the stock video automatically also work in full color PAL mode without having the 4.443MHz crystal and 74LS74 circuit present (e.g., original NTSC machine)?

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Simply_Graham said:

Yep as Ely stated, The original Atari will work exactly the same as it did before, all the original Video processing is still onboard, and remains working. The Sophia2 will sit underneath the original GTIA chip, and processes the  video for DVI / RGB all will be done on its board, the only requirement is to get the signals out of the computer.

I've two of the original Sophia's and I think their brilliant, although I really need to re-program one of them as although it shows up, the display is very wide.

Cheers Graham...

 

Looking forward to a neat clean display..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, mytek said:

Simius, if the Antic and primary crystal has been changed to PAL after installing the Sophia2, does the stock video automatically also work in full color PAL mode without having the 4.443MHz crystal and 74LS74 circuit present (e.g., original NTSC machine)?

 

Yes

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the quick reply Simius 👍 .

 

I suspected that would be the case, but just wanted to confirm.

 

Thank you :) .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Simius:

 

1. What are the clearance requirements (thickness) for installing SOPHIA-2 directly on 800's CPU board, INSIDE of CPU-slot shield-frame?

2. What is the mac. length (and width) of the video ribbon going from SOPHIA to DVI-interface?

 

These are two key info. pieces to properly install SOPHIA-2 on the 800...

Edited by Faicuai
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1. Sophia2 requires 5.5mm space above the top surface of the GTIA socket.

2. 0.8" width. What is a max. lenght - hard to say. I didn't check. What is the criterion? Presence of the image or recognizability? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Simius said:

1. Sophia2 requires 5.5mm space above the top surface of the GTIA socket.

2. 0.8" width. What is a max. lenght - hard to say. I didn't check. What is the criterion? Presence of the image or recognizability? :)

THANKS!

 

Well, here's the deal:

  1. The CPU board stands upright between two aluminum walls:one is next to the expansion bay, and the other is on the back-end.
  2. Per your comment, we need 5.5mm between GTIA surface and the BACK wall (seems like 6.00 to be safe)
  3. HOWEVER (and assuming that the video-header on SOPHIA clears the right-edge of the CPU board), we will need X.YYmm between the under-side of Sofia and the FRONT wall (next to the expansion bay), so that [SOPHIA's header + ribbon's header] fully clear the board and the front-wall.
  4. So the question is: what is that X.YYmm of clearance needed? (this can be measured directly on your prototype and the  recommended video-ribbon/header for it).

As for the length of the video-ribbon, I should have been more specific: can we get a 12-inches or 16-inches ribbon for the video output? That would give sufficient length to bend-and-route (carefully) the cable out of the CPU-slot, into the expansion-bay, and then out of the expansion-bay.

 

Sorry for the lengthy reply, but this will be critical for a smooth install on the 800.

 

Edited by Faicuai
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Faicuai said:

Sorry for the lengthy reply, but this will be critical for a smooth install on the 800.

 

For 800, you may want to wait a little bit for the Super Color CPU Card V2.0 with Sophia 2 onboard:

 

https://translate.google.de/translate?hl=de&tab=wT&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.abbuc.de%2Fcommunity%2Fforum%2Fviewtopic.php%3Ff%3D15%26t%3D10343%23p86134

 

Edited by TheMontezuma
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, mimo said:

Oh boy, this could be an expensive year 

Already has been for me, got my inheritance and the Uni took it away :)

 

Its for a great cause, my daughter so money well spent!

 

Never has 2K come and gone so fast...

Edited by Mclaneinc
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SCCC with some high 816 RAM would be sweet.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...