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Caribeno

Question about Side2 + U1MB

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Posted (edited)

Hi,

I'm very new in this Side2 + Ultimate 1MB world (literally, I just got it 2 days ago and installed it yesterday), so this may be a stupid question, but I cannot figure it out:

 

My setup: 65XE (no ECI), Sophia rev.C, Rapidus, Ultimate 1MB, Side2

Configuration:

  • Rapidus: 6502C
  • Ultimate 1MB: 1088K, XL OS 1.3, SpartaDOS X disabled, Boot to Loader disabled, PBI BIOS disabled
  • Side2: switch down, CF SanDisk Ultra 16 GB

 

When I boot the computer, I get this screen:

IMG_20200524_153415.thumb.jpg.8e2a92e2db53b969fd871edd8a41ca8e.jpg

that seems to imply it is detecting some CF media. Because this is the first time using this CF, I ran FDISK, go to Initialize and I get:

IMG_20200524_153437.thumb.jpg.19303e57d9a3df3a19b0b7a5f096c78d.jpg

 

I After choosing that device, I get this screen:

IMG_20200524_160856.thumb.jpg.a1d99d029728c2c587be746c8760bbac.jpg

 

I enter some values in FAT and APT, it goes to a confirmation screen, press Save and get a message saying that the disk requires initialization. If I go to the Properties option, I get:

IMG_20200524_161510.thumb.jpg.106c5cd7b7070cb00683c8f7826d1fee.jpg

 

Any ideas on what could be happening? Is the CF card not being recognized properly? Is there are a limit in the size of the CF, and 16GB is too big?

 

The same CF, in Linux, works fine. In fact, I created a FAT32 partition, copied some ROMs and ATRs but, when I start the computer with the same configuration, but the SIDE2 switch in the up position, the Side Loader says "No media".

 

Thanks for any tips and info!

 

Andres.

 

P.S.: I just tried the LSDEV command, and I get:

Device: 2.0.1

Media:

Controller: SIDE Driver v.4.0

Size: 0KB 512bps

 

the LSDSK command says "No devices found"

 

Edited by Caribeno

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7 minutes ago, Caribeno said:

Any ideas on what could be happening? Is the CF card not being recognized properly? Is there are a limit in the size of the CF, and 16GB is too big?

16GB is not too big, but the speed rating of it might be too fast for the SIDE2, or it just doesn't like that particular card (some manufacturers are not supported). Can you take a picture of the CF card and post it here?

 

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Looks like it's not recognising your CF card, it should show the size, see attached photo.

It is know that some CF cards do not work in the SIDE2, usually SANDISK are the best choice

 

 

 

 

 

image.png

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7 minutes ago, Caribeno said:

Is the CF card not being recognized properly?

Apparently it is not. Things appear to be all kinds of messed up.

9 minutes ago, Caribeno said:

Is there are a limit in the size of the CF, and 16GB is too big?

16GB is absolutely fine - no problems there. On an U1MB machine, there is absolutely no need to use the SIDE driver to run the hard disk, though. You should ENABLE the PBI BIOS and turn on the PBI HDD (enable the HSIO driver as well if you wish). Put the SIDE switch in the UP position and enable SDX in the U1MB setup. Neither SDX nor the loader on the SIDE cart itself need to be used when the cart is plugged into an U1MB machine.

 

Not that this may make much difference to the reliability of the system. My pat diagnosis would be 'Rapidus: take it out', but - as mytek suggested - there could be more subtle reasons for such highly disruptive IO errors.

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2 minutes ago, mytek said:

16GB is not too big, but the speed rating of it might be too fast for the SIDE2, or it just doesn't like that particular card (some manufacturers are not supported). Can you take a picture of the CF card and post it here?

 

Thanks! This is the one:

IMG_20200524_165240.thumb.jpg.a7aba9ad9a4153d80b4efde438964bbb.jpg

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1 minute ago, flashjazzcat said:

Apparently it is not. Things appear to be all kinds of messed up.

16GB is absolutely fine - no problems there. On an U1MB machine, there is absolutely no need to use the SIDE driver to run the hard disk, though. You should ENABLE the PBI BIOS and turn on the PBI HDD (enable the HSIO driver as well if you wish). Put the SIDE switch in the UP position and enable SDX in the U1MB setup. Neither SDX nor the loader on the SIDE cart itself need to be used when the cart is plugged into an U1MB machine.

 

Not that this may make much difference to the reliability of the system. My pat diagnosis would be 'Rapidus: take it out', but - as mytek suggested - there could be more subtle reasons for such highly disruptive IO errors.

Thank you very much for that! I will correct the configuration. 🙂

 

I'm trying to get a different CF card (somewhat difficult on a Sunday afternoon on quarantine), and will see how it goes. If it does not work, I will remove Rapidus.

 

Thanks again!

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Posted (edited)

I had the same issue with a SanDisk Ultra 16GB CF card.  That card just does not work with the Side2 cart.

 

 

Edited by Colleton
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Problem solved! I got a 1GB SanDisk card, and that worked fine... I guess those new SanDisk 16GB with silver label are not good for the SIDE2.

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Just now, Caribeno said:

Problem solved! I got a 1GB SanDisk card, and that worked fine... I guess those new SanDisk 16GB with silver label are not good for the SIDE2.

Yep. I noted the same last year in a different thread. The 8BG version of the same card worked fine in my SIDE2 cartridge but the 16GB version does not. 

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I'm told some newer CF cards dropped 8-bit PIO mode entirely. If this is true, they would indeed be rendered useless with SIDE2.

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1 hour ago, Caribeno said:

Thanks! This is the one:

IMG_20200524_165240.thumb.jpg.a7aba9ad9a4153d80b4efde438964bbb.jpg

That card is 50 MB/Sec one which will not work with the SIDE2. Preferably you should stick to cards rated for <= 30 MB/Sec. However with that said, that card will work in an XEL or XLD, and does so quite reliably albeit without the ability to hot plug (meaning don't try inserting it after the power has already been applied).

 

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1 hour ago, flashjazzcat said:

I'm told some newer CF cards dropped 8-bit PIO mode entirely. If this is true, they would indeed be rendered useless with SIDE2.

Ah! Unfortunately, it is not that easy to know, beforehand which ones have the 8-bit PIO removed. 😞

 

Have another question: you mentioned in your previous response that the ideal setting to use SIDE2 + U1MB is to enable the PBI BIOS. turn on the PBI HDD, put the side switch up and enable SDX in the U1MB. But after I created the partitions and formatted them, and verified they are working, if I boot the SDX from U1MB it does not recognize the CF card. If I load the SIDE.SYS driver, then I can see the partitions and use them. What am I missing?

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3 hours ago, Caribeno said:

Have another question: you mentioned in your previous response that the ideal setting to use SIDE2 + U1MB is to enable the PBI BIOS. turn on the PBI HDD, put the side switch up and enable SDX in the U1MB. But after I created the partitions and formatted them, and verified they are working, if I boot the SDX from U1MB it does not recognize the CF card. If I load the SIDE.SYS driver, then I can see the partitions and use them. What am I missing?

OK, I think I'm closer, but still confused: I guess I need to mount the APT partitions in the SIDE LOADER. If I go to the APT tab (the one with the rocket ship), I can see both partitions I created, but neither of them can be selected.

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8 hours ago, Caribeno said:

But after I created the partitions and formatted them, and verified they are working, if I boot the SDX from U1MB it does not recognize the CF card. If I load the SIDE.SYS driver, then I can see the partitions and use them.

SDX should have no impact whatsoever on functionality of the PBI HDD, since the HDD works independently of DOS in these circumstances. Is this behaviour also exhibited when Rapidus is removed from the machine? Honestly: I see so much crazy behaviour when Rapidus and U1MB are present in the same computer, until hardware instability is eliminated, I am disinclined to start troubleshooting the situation (since the reasons for the issues may be beyond anyone's control). Spontaneous disappearance of the hard disk is not exactly unprecedented behaviour on such setups.

4 hours ago, Caribeno said:

I guess I need to mount the APT partitions in the SIDE LOADER. If I go to the APT tab (the one with the rocket ship), I can see both partitions I created, but neither of them can be selected.

No: with the PBI HDD enabled, the partitions will auto-mount when the computer is powered on. If the APT partitions are greyed out, it means the PBI HDD is disabled (and the computer therefore has no access to the HDD other than via the SDX SIDE driver).

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, flashjazzcat said:

SDX should have no impact whatsoever on functionality of the PBI HDD, since the HDD works independently of DOS in these circumstances. Is this behaviour also exhibited when Rapidus is removed from the machine? Honestly: I see so much crazy behaviour when Rapidus and U1MB are present in the same computer, until hardware instability is eliminated, I am disinclined to start troubleshooting the situation (since the reasons for the issues may be beyond anyone's control). Spontaneous disappearance of the hard disk is not exactly unprecedented behaviour on such setups.

No: with the PBI HDD enabled, the partitions will auto-mount when the computer is powered on. If the APT partitions are greyed out, it means the PBI HDD is disabled (and the computer therefore has no access to the HDD other than via the SDX SIDE driver).

Exactly as you said: as soon as I removed Rapidus, the SDX from U1MB loaded the PBI BIOS and all the partitions in the SIDE2 are ready available. Thank you so much!

 

Now: Do you know where I can start to look at what's the problem with Rapidus?

 

Take care, and thank you again.

 

Andres.

 

P.S.: I will watch your video about stability of those two after lunch.

Edited by Caribeno
Adding more info.
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43 minutes ago, Caribeno said:

Now: Do you know where I can start to look at what's the problem with Rapidus

Email Pasiu or Lotharek would be my suggestion, since no known solutions exist. U1MB firmware appears vindicated now despite being a persistent default scapegoat. Ideas such as pumping excess voltage into the machine have been bandied around, and one commentator - having schooled me elaborately on high speed circuits - pledged to find definitive answers. But nothing has been heard yet. Since I don't feel obliged to spearhead the investigation, I have given up.

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I do not know if this could be the case, but one (and often being forgotten) source of problems with PBI devices may be a conflict of the IDs. Now Rapidus (even in the Classic mode) is a PBI device occupying ID #0. So any HDD or such should be relocated to higher IDs when the board is present.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, drac030 said:

I do not know if this could be the case, but one (and often being forgotten) source of problems with PBI devices may be a conflict of the IDs. Now Rapidus (even in the Classic mode) is a PBI device occupying ID #0. So any HDD or such should be relocated to higher IDs when the board is present.

That was it!!! 🙂 I did not know that Rapidus was also a PBI device (seems obvious now). After changing PBI Device ID to 2 in the U1MB everything works.

 

Thank you so much!

 

Andres.

Edited by Caribeno
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