Best way to play Atari 2600 for me?

[donjn]

I am currently having issues coming up with the best way to play the 2600.

 

Maybe someone could help as I tell you what I have. I have an Atari 800 xl with UnoCart which I love. A lot of those games have the great sound effects like the 2600 and some games have been recreated to match the 2600 (Raiders, etc). I play my Atari 800 xl through a Commodore monitor because I can't stand joystick delay.

 

So here is what I've been looking at:

 

Real Atari 2600

Get Harmony cart. Only works through RF and worried it will look crappy on an LCD TV.

 

Atari Flashback 2

Looked at this because it had composite out so I can hook it up to my Commodore monitor. But only 40 games and I don't like soldering to add more.

 

Atari Flashback 9 or X

You can easily add the whole library to these. How is the input lag? Do they look okay on an HDTV? Non gold right? If I am sensitive to response time would wired be better than wireless? Would there be a reason to choose X over 9? Which one has paddle issues?

 

Retron 77

Not sure I trust that controller. Is the input lag better or worse compared to the Flashback series? Looks like you can easily add games though.

 

Stella Emulation

This is what I do now and it works fine. Almost no input lag and I use the 2600-daptor with 2600 controllers. Maybe between this and my real Atari 800 that should be enough for me?

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Edited June 15, 2020 by donjn
...

[davyK]

Stella+control adaptors or real hardware+Harmony. If you don't have a CRT then Stella.

[Voxel]

Well you've got a real A8, so at some point you'll want a real VCS/2600 to go with it.  You can get cloned hardware for sure, but you'll always want the real thing.  Most folks would have started with an RF TV signal and back then would not have known any better.  If you get a good clean signal via RF you'll not complain, but that means a well kept VCS/2600 (or getting to work on the board).  As long as your LCD TV has anologue input you can manually tune in a VCS/2600.  The video response is acceptable for casual gaming (I'm thinking the older LCD TV's are better from memory).  However if you're competitive you'll, want a CRT.  From the used CRT's available, I'm using a 14inch VCR TV combo giving RF/AV/Scart (Peritel) connections.

 

Your current Stella emulation should keep you until you get a real VCS/2600 and there are many for sale to choose from.

 

Get cloned hardware if you can't get the real thing, or if it's right for you (i.e. Retron 77 puts out 720p).

[+SpiceWare]

8 hours ago, donjn said:

Real Atari 2600

Get Harmony cart. Only works through RF and worried it will look crappy on an LCD TV.

 

 

get a modded Atari 2600, this is what mine looks like using S-Video on my C= 1084S monitor.

 

 

Note the fading at the top is due to the camera in my iPhone, I think the problem is the newer cameras are just too fast to take photos of CRTs. For comparison, this is a photo taken of my 2600 with an older camera:

 

[Keatah]

Those C= monitors look really nice. I have 2 of the 1084s units myself. Not used them in ages so the tube should be good. Maybe need a re-cap in good time.

 

Anyhow to answer the OP's question with my opinion.

 

I believe it best to match whatever hardware you're using with the display device's most-native input. If it means modding or converting then so be it.

 

I prefer emulation myself for the consistency, reliability, and versatility. Not to mention I can bring my "setup" over to friends' houses and game there just as well.

 

In thinking about how I do gaming on the PC and Apple II platforms I'm finding a mixture of software emulation and real hardware to be a good balance. There's a few times when doing utility/disk work that a "500MHz 6502" comes in handy. Read that as emulator in turbo-speed mode. And other times when you want the authentic back-in-the-day experience.

 

So for me it's all about balance with a bias toward emulation.

 

[Crazy Climber]

Get yourself some old TV's, totally worth it...

[gilsaluki]

I too prefer the CRTs.  You can take advantage of the lightgun games (a few were even made for the 2600).  I have a 7800 and a 2600 hooked to the same CRT TV.  The later TVs (Samsungs, etc.) have really brilliant picture displays.  They are easily tuned to the correct color/brightness values.  I still use the RFs, and I am pretty happy with the output from the 2600 and especially my 7800.  Thing is, a lot of thrift stores no longer support the tube TVs.  

[christo930]

12 hours ago, donjn said:

I am currently having issues coming up with the best way to play the 2600.

 

Maybe someone could help as I tell you what I have. I have an Atari 800 xl with UnoCart which I love. A lot of those games have the great sound effects like the 2600 and some games have been recreated to match the 2600 (Raiders, etc). I play my Atari 800 xl through a Commodore monitor because I can't stand joystick delay.

 

So here is what I've been looking at:

 

Real Atari 2600

Get Harmony cart. Only works through RF and worried it will look crappy on an LCD TV.

 

Atari Flashback 2

Looked at this because it had composite out so I can hook it up to my Commodore monitor. But only 40 games and I don't like soldering to add more.

 

Atari Flashback 9 or X

You can easily add the whole library to these. How is the input lag? Do they look okay on an HDTV? Non gold right? If I am sensitive to response time would wired be better than wireless? Would there be a reason to choose X over 9? Which one has paddle issues?

 

Retron 77

Not sure I trust that controller. Is the input lag better or worse compared to the Flashback series? Looks like you can easily add games though.

 

Stella Emulation

This is what I do now and it works fine. Almost no input lag and I use the 2600-daptor with 2600 controllers. Maybe between this and my real Atari 800 that should be enough for me?

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

Real 2600 with a harmony cart and a VCR (just set the VCR channel to whatever channel the Atari is outputting on) or other method of outputting composite video on the Commodore monitor.

2600 games are meant to be played on a CRT through NTSC.  I don't like how they look on an LCD screen, but presumably it should look like stella looks when displayed to an LCD monitor.

[donjn]

I have a Commodore 1702 monitor. If I run the Atari through a VCR will the input response time be acceptable as well as the picture? I worry about losing some response time by running it through the VCR.

[donjn]

Also, I haven't purchased the 2600 yet. Any reason to not get a 7800 instead and get the UnoCart 2600/7600 for $40?

[+DrVenkman]

10 minutes ago, donjn said:

I have a Commodore 1702 monitor. If I run the Atari through a VCR will the input response time be acceptable as well as the picture? I worry about losing some response time by running it through the VCR.

No you won't notice any difference. The signal path is still entirely analog, with no conversion to digital and resultant need to sync up frames. If you can detect the difference made by the time it take the analog signals to travel through a foot or two of additional RCA cabling, you'd be a superhero. 

[christo930]

4 hours ago, donjn said:

I have a Commodore 1702 monitor. If I run the Atari through a VCR will the input response time be acceptable as well as the picture? I worry about losing some response time by running it through the VCR.

There should not be any lag time at all.  I have done this before and I don't recall anything like that.  Most VCRs cannot buffer anyway.

 

My recommendation is to get a 7800. That way you can play all the 2600 games and the 7800 games.  The 7800 has very good RF video as well.  If you don't already have a VCR, you should be able to get one dirt cheap. It doesn't even need to work, it just needs to work well enough to turn on and set the TV/VCR setting to VCR.

[+DrVenkman]

6 hours ago, christo930 said:

The 7800 has very good RF video as well.

Not my current two units - their RF is/was terrible. I broke down a year or more ago and finally put a UAV board into my daily-driver. SO much better picture! The RF on my Heavy and Light Sixers and 5200 are worlds better than my 7800’s. Ugh. 

[Rogerpoco]

I think the Flashbacks are neat to have, but for scoring well they simply do not play quite the same-the sticks really don't register directional inputs in a timely manner, something like Dragster is nearly(but not)impossible, is a huge difference.

 

I've heard of people having perfect results with Stella, but I do get a bit of lag, which I can account for, it's consistent, unlike the Flashbacks.

 

But a real 2600 and a Harmony, definitely!!!

 

I'd almost even say just get a 7800, so you have that compatibility as well, but it's hard to beat the "look" of a 2600 sitting on the floor.

[christo930]

On 6/16/2020 at 7:40 AM, DrVenkman said:

Not my current two units - their RF is/was terrible. I broke down a year or more ago and finally put a UAV board into my daily-driver. SO much better picture! The RF on my Heavy and Light Sixers and 5200 are worlds better than my 7800’s. Ugh. 

My heavy and light sixers were terrible until I cleaned the switches out.  But the best RF output in any Atari is the Jr.  It is by far the best.  But the Jr doesn't play 7800 games.  The main Atari I try to use is my 7800, specifically for the reason that it can play more games. (the uno cart works with a 7800, but won't play 7800 games). I don't know if the uno cart can play dpc+ games. My Cuttle Cart would not.

Edited June 18, 2020 by christo930

[donjn]

I ended up getting a modded 4 switch Ben Heck s-video and LED power light one on Ebay. Set me back $120 but cant wait until it gets here.

 

Then I bought an s-video to chroma / luma cable and I am going to run it through the back of my Commodore 1702 monitor. I should be fine!!

 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by donjn

[Voxel]

Very nice!

 

Sometimes it makes sense when you're starting out to pay a bit more, you're experience will be so much better.

 

I'm very happy for you.

[donjn]

1 hour ago, Voxel said:

Very nice!

 

Sometimes it makes sense when you're starting out to pay a bit more, you're experience will be so much better.

 

I'm very happy for you.

Thanks, I cant wait to see an s-video Atari on a Commodore monitor. Its gonna look great.

[christo930]

Cool.  Good luck with the new set up.