Jump to content
mytek

The Worlds Smallest Atari 8-Bit?

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Atari8bitCarts said:

There are a couple outliner cart housing with non-XE carts.

Tennis and Football are example of the grey cart minus the ridge on the back. Then there is Final Legacy with the ridge.

 

I knew there were a couple of the gray carts with the grip ridges on the sides that had silver, XL-style labels, but I'd forgotten about Final Legacy using the other style. So, that's like 17 carts with that protrusion.

 

The other odd cart (not related to any problems with the Nuc's slot) is the XE release of Eastern Front 1941, which uses an old brown cart-style shell (seen above). It's stands out kind of oddly. Probably had something to do with using up old stock from the original release of it...

 

Edited by MrFish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a couple of XEGS carts that use the tiled background to the label rather than the flat blue as well. Maybe when I've finished documenting all the label variants on my website I should give them all the right cart shell as well :)

 

could somebody measure that weird xe cart for me? I need to know how far the ridge sticks out, how far it is from the cart edge connector how long it is how wide etc., in mm if possible

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, orpheuswaking said:

the best part is that sometimes you can find the same game in both cart styles

True... I remember having a few like that.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Mr Robot said:

could somebody measure that weird xe cart for me? I need to know how far the ridge sticks out, how far it is from the cart edge connector how long it is how wide etc., in mm if possible

@Mr Robot I hope this helps. If you would like any further information measurements etc.   let me know.

 

On the two cart's I have, the ridge is 3.66mm square bar, setback fron the plastic case by the edge connector 69.2mm  

e|                                                                  |B|

d|----------------------69.2mm ---------------|A|-6.48mm-|   

g|                                                                  |R|

e|                                                                  |  |

                                                                     3.66mm

 

69.2mm  Bar 3.66mm space to back edge 6.48mm

there is a 5.65mm gap at each end of the bar so dosen't extend the whole width of the cartridge.

Checked on 'FOOTBALL' RX8029 & 'LOAD RUNNER' RX8082

NOTE The PCB edge connector is set back from the plastic case by about 2mm on the carts with ridges in the side this is more like 5mm. pictures to come.#

 Edit 2.2mm setback and 6mm setback  on the ridged ones.

Edited by Simply_Graham
update measurements
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

note that due to the angle the photo of the two carts are taken, the gapping from PCB connector to plastic of cartridge edge looks all wrong. the PCB edge connectors are set back from the plastic edge. 2.2mm & 6mm

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

 

 

Edited by Simply_Graham
removed image
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the height of the bar sticking up from the cartridge?

we have length, width and position but not height...

Edited by _The Doctor__

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/7/2021 at 11:26 AM, mytek said:

The SD problem is very baffling.

Did you get anywhere with the SD card problem? I see you've got new boards incoming. What messages did you get about the SD card in debug output?

 

I notice you are using the WROVER-IE module which is setup to use an external antenna. If you plan to use it without external antenna you should move the 0 ohm resistor next to the antenna connector which puts the wifi signal on the pcb antenna instead. Alternatively, you could remove the resistor and solder blob the correct set of pads (for those not able to handle the tiny parts).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, _The Doctor__ said:

the height of the bar sticking up from the cartridge?

we have length, width and position but not height...

Hi Doc

Yes the plastic bar forms a square so it's 3.66mm x 3.66mm, Sorry didn't have enough hands to line up and take a photo :)   I did mention it in the first post just forgot to elucidate later on.

Would a better photo of the PCB edge connector to plastic case offset be of any use, or are you both happy about the differences I noted?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mozzwald said:

Did you get anywhere with the SD card problem? I see you've got new boards incoming. What messages did you get about the SD card in debug output?

Never did get it working, but I also didn't run a debug to find out what the ESP32 thinks (probably should, and will do soon). Since everything looked correct on the connections I figured I'd just go for a 2nd set of prototype boards to incorporate a few changes and keep my fingers crossed that it was just a damaged module causing the SD problem.

 

Quote

I notice you are using the WROVER-IE module which is setup to use an external antenna. If you plan to use it without external antenna you should move the 0 ohm resistor next to the antenna connector which puts the wifi signal on the pcb antenna instead. Alternatively, you could remove the resistor and solder blob the correct set of pads (for those not able to handle the tiny parts).

Didn't realize there was a version with a PCB antenna only (found it: ESP32-WROVER-E). Thus far it's been working, but I guess it'd be much better signal strength with the internal antenna connected. Any pics showing the resistor mod?

 

Edit: Found this reference in the datasheet that clarifies what you were suggesting (move resistor from R14 to R15). I think I'd have better luck with the solder blob method, now I just need to get out my magnifiers ;)

 

ESP32_antenna_select.png.88b07b845f9242baf5418c111126c070.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mytek said:

Didn't realize there was a version with a PCB antenna only (found it: ESP32-WROVER-E). Thus far it's been working, but I guess it'd be much better signal strength with the internal antenna connected. Any pics showing the resistor mod?

 

Edit: Found this reference in the datasheet that clarifies what you were suggesting (move resistor from R14 to R15). I think I'd have better luck with the solder blob method, now I just need to get out my magnifiers ;)

If it helps, here's a picture of the resistor and which two pads to short for which antenna. It's a simple fix, but not easy for everyone ;) 

IMG_20210313_125223030_1.thumb.jpg.6be5805d4577863c4b1f975d5ee7f43e.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, mozzwald said:

Did you get anywhere with the SD card problem? I see you've got new boards incoming. What messages did you get about the SD card in debug output?

Using '/dev/ttyUSB0' as serial port.
Showing logs:
[18:22:39]
[18:22:39]CF: 70 f9 00 00 6a
[18:22:39]sioFuji::sio_process() called
[18:22:39]ACK!
[18:22:39]Fuji cmd: MOUNT HOST
[18:22:39]::mount {0} "SD"
[18:22:39]::mount_local Attempting mount of "SD"
[18:22:39]Type is already LOCAL
[18:22:39]COMPLETE!
[18:22:39]
[18:22:39]CF: 70 f7 00 00 68
[18:22:39]sioFuji::sio_process() called
[18:22:39]ACK!
[18:22:39]Fuji cmd: OPEN DIRECTORY
[18:22:39]<-SIO read 256 bytes
[18:22:39]ACK!
[18:22:39]Opening directory: "/", pattern: ""
[18:22:39]::dir_open {0:1} "/", pattern ""
[18:22:39]::dir_open actual path = "/"
[18:22:39]ERROR!
[18:22:39]
[18:22:39]CF: 70 f7 00 00 68
[18:22:39]sioFuji::sio_process() called
[18:22:39]ACK!
[18:22:39]Fuji cmd: OPEN DIRECTORY
[18:22:39]<-SIO read 256 bytes
[18:22:39]ACK!
[18:22:39]Opening directory: "/", pattern: ""
[18:22:39]::dir_open {0:1} "/", pattern ""
[18:22:39]::dir_open actual path = "/"
[18:22:39]ERROR!
[18:22:39]
[18:22:39]CF: 70 f7 00 00 68
[18:22:39]sioFuji::sio_process() called
[18:22:39]ACK!
[18:22:39]Fuji cmd: OPEN DIRECTORY
[18:22:39]<-SIO read 256 bytes
[18:22:39]ACK!
[18:22:39]Opening directory: "/", pattern: ""
[18:22:40]::dir_open {0:1} "/", pattern ""
[18:22:40]::dir_open actual path = "/"
[18:22:40]ERROR!
[18:22:40]
[18:22:40]CF: 70 f7 00 00 68
[18:22:40]sioFuji::sio_process() called
[18:22:40]ACK!
[18:22:40]Fuji cmd: OPEN DIRECTORY
[18:22:40]<-SIO read 256 bytes
[18:22:40]ACK!
[18:22:40]Opening directory: "/", pattern: ""
[18:22:40]::dir_open {0:1} "/", pattern ""
[18:22:40]::dir_open actual path = "/"
[18:22:40]ERROR!
[18:22:40]
[18:22:40]CF: 70 f7 00 00 68
[18:22:40]sioFuji::sio_process() called
[18:22:40]ACK!
[18:22:40]Fuji cmd: OPEN DIRECTORY
[18:22:40]<-SIO read 256 bytes
[18:22:40]ACK!
[18:22:40]Opening directory: "/", pattern: ""
[18:22:40]::dir_open {0:1} "/", pattern ""
[18:22:40]::dir_open actual path = "/"
[18:22:40]ERROR!
[18:22:40]
[18:22:40]CF: 70 f7 00 00 68
[18:22:40]sioFuji::sio_process() called
[18:22:40]ACK!
[18:22:40]Fuji cmd: OPEN DIRECTORY
[18:22:40]<-SIO read 256 bytes
[18:22:40]ACK!
[18:22:40]Opening directory: "/", pattern: ""
[18:22:40]::dir_open {0:1} "/", pattern ""
[18:22:40]::dir_open actual path = "/"
[18:22:40]ERROR!
[18:22:40]
[18:22:40]CF: 70 f7 00 00 68
[18:22:40]sioFuji::sio_process() called
[18:22:40]ACK!
[18:22:40]Fuji cmd: OPEN DIRECTORY
[18:22:40]<-SIO read 256 bytes
[18:22:40]ACK!
[18:22:40]Opening directory: "/", pattern: ""
[18:22:40]::dir_open {0:1} "/", pattern ""
[18:22:40]::dir_open actual path = "/"
[18:22:40]ERROR!
[18:22:40]
[18:22:40]CF: 70 f7 00 00 68
[18:22:40]sioFuji::sio_process() called
[18:22:40]ACK!
[18:22:40]Fuji cmd: OPEN DIRECTORY
[18:22:40]<-SIO read 256 bytes
[18:22:40]ACK!
[18:22:40]Opening directory: "/", pattern: ""
[18:22:40]::dir_open {0:1} "/", pattern ""
[18:22:40]::dir_open actual path = "/"
[18:22:40]ERROR!
[18:22:40]
[18:22:40]CF: 70 f7 00 00 68
[18:22:40]sioFuji::sio_process() called
[18:22:40]ACK!
[18:22:40]Fuji cmd: OPEN DIRECTORY
[18:22:40]<-SIO read 256 bytes
[18:22:40]ACK!
[18:22:40]Opening directory: "/", pattern: ""
[18:22:40]::dir_open {0:1} "/", pattern ""
[18:22:40]::dir_open actual path = "/"
[18:22:40]ERROR!
[18:22:40]
[18:22:40]CF: 70 f7 00 00 68
[18:22:40]sioFuji::sio_process() called
[18:22:40]ACK!
[18:22:40]Fuji cmd: OPEN DIRECTORY
[18:22:40]<-SIO read 256 bytes
[18:22:41]ACK!
[18:22:41]Opening directory: "/", pattern: ""
[18:22:41]::dir_open {0:1} "/", pattern ""
[18:22:41]::dir_open actual path = "/"
[18:22:41]ERROR!

I don't know if that tells you much.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, mytek said:

I don't know if that tells you much.

Can you capture the FujiNet startup logs? Open the debug monitor, then reset the FujiNet to get it's bootup messages

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, mozzwald said:

Can you capture the FujiNet startup logs? Open the debug monitor, then reset the FujiNet to get it's bootup messages

Using '/dev/ttyUSB0' as serial port.
Showing logs:
[18:52:38][18:52:38]
[18:52:38]--~--~--~--
[18:52:38]FujiNet 0.5.043f69be 2021-03-11 02:29:28 Started @ 4
[18:52:38]Starting heap: 4056756
[18:52:38]PsramSize 3917592
[18:52:38]himem phys 4456448
[18:52:38]himem free 4456448
[18:52:38]himem reserved 262144
[18:52:38]FujiNet Hardware v1.1 and up
[18:52:38]SPIFFS mounted.
[18:52:38]E (1310) vfs_fat_sdmmc: mount_to_vfs failed (0xffffffff).
[18:52:38]SD mount failed with code #-1, "ESP_FAIL"
[18:52:38]fnConfig::load
[18:52:38]fnConfig::load read 576 bytes from config file
[18:52:38]WIFI_EVENT_STA_START
[18:52:38]WiFi connect attempt to SSID "ATTcNjZeQs"
[18:52:38]esp_wifi_connect returned 0
[18:52:38]disk UNMOUNT
[18:52:38]disk MOUNT
[18:52:38]ATR MOUNT
[18:52:38]mounted ATR: paragraphs=5760, sect_size=128, sect_count=720, disk_size=0
[18:52:38]Creating a default printer using FS_SPIFFS storage and type 1
[18:52:38]SSH client initialized.
[18:52:38]ModemSniffer::ModemSniffer(FS_SPIFFS)
[18:52:38]SIO SETUP
[18:52:38]Set HSIO baud from 0 to 124017 (index 0), alt=126674
[18:52:38]Available heap: 3969404
[18:52:38]Setup complete @ 554 (550ms)
[18:52:38]WIFI_EVENT_STA_CONNECTED
[18:52:40]IP_EVENT_STA_GOT_IP
[18:52:40]Obtained IP address: 192.168.1.172
[18:52:40]SNTP client start
[18:52:40]Starting web server on port 80
[18:52:42]SNTP time sync event: Sat Mar 13, 18:52:42 2021 -0800

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/13/2021 at 8:53 PM, mytek said:

[18:52:38]E (1310) vfs_fat_sdmmc: mount_to_vfs failed (0xffffffff).

[18:52:38]SD mount failed with code #-1, "ESP_FAIL"

Not really sure what's happening. This page states the "partition cannot be mounted." Not really sure if the card is detected or if it just doesn't like the partition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mozzwald said:

Not really sure what's happening. This page states the "partition cannot be mounted." Not really sure if the card is detected or if it just doesn't like the partition.

I really think there's something wrong with my ESP because when I scope the lines to the SD the CS remains high, and I see no attempt to access the SD. I'll know more when I build a 2nd prototype with fresh parts. Thanks for checking :)

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/13/2021 at 11:11 AM, mozzwald said:

If it helps, here's a picture of the resistor and which two pads to short for which antenna. It's a simple fix, but not easy for everyone ;) 

IMG_20210313_125223030_1.thumb.jpg.6be5805d4577863c4b1f975d5ee7f43e.jpg

This made a tremendous difference in the reliability to download large files. Prior to enabling the PCB antenna, I was only seeing one bar in the wireless scan next to my WiFi SSID. Now I see the maximum bars, and as a result the file transfer has become much more reliable. Thanks again for not only spotting this, but also helping me out as well :)

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A real antennae can only make things better. Getting the pcb clear of stuff and allowing the fujinet to be shielded helps with killing the birdies and squeals a number of people have had. That also increases reliability. It's great that there is an internal one to get by with... though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, _The Doctor__ said:

A real antennae can only make things better. Getting the pcb clear of stuff and allowing the fujinet to be shielded helps with killing the birdies and squeals a number of people have had. That also increases reliability. It's great that there is an internal one to get by with... though.

With maximum bars, I don't think an external antenna would really do much more for me unless the distance were greatly increased from the WiFi router. Presently I am almost 30 feet away, but I could see people being in a separate room, or even downstairs from the router where this would be a great help.

 

As for interference, I thought I saw some at one time, but that was due to my video cable loosing a shield connection on one of the wires. After I fixed that the picture looks crystal clear. Never heard any birdies (except the ones outside), and not being by a pig farm I haven't heard any squealing either ;) .

 

I should have the next round of NUC-FujiNet prototype boards arriving tomorrow. Be interesting and exciting to get one of those assembled to see if my SD card will finally work. I also ordered some of the ESP32-WROVER-E modules, so pretty soon I can stop modding the antenna connection.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, mytek said:

Thanks again for not only spotting this, but also helping me out as well :)

Happy to help!

25 minutes ago, mytek said:

Never heard any birdies (except the ones outside), and not being by a pig farm I haven't heard any squealing either

:rolling:

34 minutes ago, mytek said:

but I could see people being in a separate room, or even downstairs from the router where this would be a great help.

I like the option for external antenna on the NUC since there's probably room for the external connector somewhere on the case. The IE module is nice for that since it can be used both ways if you can bodge the resistor.

 

For funsies I made this thing up. It's non-functional. (and no, I will not be actually designing this) :D 

IMG_20210224_191021465_1.thumb.jpg.007a653380303440ecddae678f69c227.jpg

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, mozzwald said:

I like the option for external antenna on the NUC since there's probably room for the external connector somewhere on the case. The IE module is nice for that since it can be used both ways if you can bodge the resistor.

If the NUC were to be encased in metal, the external would be a definite yes. However with the intention to use a 3D printed plastic case, and looking at the results I'm getting with just the PCB antenna, it's not going to be something that many would need. Although for those that do need it, perhaps a hole could be provided on the back of the case for an antenna similar to your mock-up. Speaking of which if your mock-up was unplugged from the 800XL it would look like one of those small 2-way radios 👍

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem I was experiencing with the NUC-FujiNet prototype not seeing my SD drive has been solved. First of all it was partly due to my newbi-ness at using FujiNet, where I didn't realize that the SD card wouldn't get mounted if you plug it in after the FujiNet is already powered up. Pressing the Safe Reset button will solve that, or powering down and back up with the card already inserted.

 

Now as to why I didn't catch this early on has to do with an SD card that for whatever reason just don't work with FujiNet, It wasn't until I temporarily wired in a MicroSD directly which worked, that I started to do some further investigation. So the card that fails to be read is the SanDisk 2GB pictured below.

SanDisk_2GB_SDcard.jpeg.122eaa10bfec739cb0d59c2890a2ef27.jpeg

When I changed to a SanDisk 8GB Ultra, all was well.

 

SanDisk_8GB_Ultra_SDcard.jpeg.c05e912d8e7ab79ccc01da4741e5bd96.jpeg

 

First time I've seen that with an Atari memory card reader where an older slower card doesn't work, but a faster one does.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cart port updates...

 

XE Cart

1712531376_ScreenShot2021-03-28at10_48_18.thumb.png.8c9153839a8489207dcff025d31d734c.png

 

XE Rounded Cart

949515245_ScreenShot2021-03-28at10_49_40.thumb.png.74a53180b32a31b9b0c7b047e07e2404.png

 

AVG Cart

1936014334_ScreenShot2021-03-28at10_51_48.thumb.png.4d2733c8d820d1bdc5ab5984352450b0.png

 

Empty

912145516_ScreenShot2021-03-28at10_53_48.thumb.png.443241521c33063bfb03732b4971420d.png

 

Lid still has work and refining to do but mechanically it is done.

 

The NUC+ Fujinet daughterboard has undergone some significant changes, it is now almost entirely through hole, just the SD card and one other easy to solder component is SMD. There is a location for the ESP32 which can accept the SMD part or a dev board. Currently there isn't a 16MB dev board but we're ready for it when there is.

 

The FN daughterboard will now have the required stuff for the cart port but it will be unpopulated by default, it's just a few headers and sockets which will be available with the lid (which has the cart port itself built into it) as a DIY kit. Some simple soldering will be required. NUC+'s with the cart port pre-installed will be available if there is enough demand I think, but that is up to MacRorie.

 

This all still needs refining, routing and testing but here's the current progress.

 

113578027_ScreenShot2021-03-28at11_08_50.thumb.png.d32822f622dd38350eebe32e153ba260.png

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/13/2021 at 4:37 AM, Simply_Graham said:

@Mr Robot I hope this helps. If you would like any further information measurements etc.   let me know.

 

On the two cart's I have, the ridge is 3.66mm square bar, setback fron the plastic case by the edge connector 69.2mm  

e|                                                                  |B|

d|----------------------69.2mm ---------------|A|-6.48mm-|   

g|                                                                  |R|

e|                                                                  |  |

                                                                     3.66mm

 

69.2mm  Bar 3.66mm space to back edge 6.48mm

there is a 5.65mm gap at each end of the bar so dosen't extend the whole width of the cartridge.

Checked on 'FOOTBALL' RX8029 & 'LOAD RUNNER' RX8082

NOTE The PCB edge connector is set back from the plastic case by about 2mm on the carts with ridges in the side this is more like 5mm. pictures to come.#

 Edit 2.2mm setback and 6mm setback  on the ridged ones.

Thanks for your help with this  @Simply_Graham, if the real thing doesn't fit, I'll be holding you responsible ;) 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   1 member

×
×
  • Create New...