Are you impressed by the PS5 or the XSX so far?

[IntelliMission]

There has been quite a bit of controversy this week because it's not clear that the Demon's Souls remake actually uses Ray Tracing, even if it looks gorgeous.

 

Some interviews with the creators of the game included quotes speaking about this graphical feature, but the same guys just confirmed that they had to drop it in a more recent interview.

 

That's definitely one of the reasons most people in this site are not too interested in these consoles: the selling points appear to be concepts like Ray Tracing or RDNA2.

Edited October 31, 2020 by IntelliMission

[adamchevy]

There has been quite a bit of controversy this week because it's not clear that the Demon's Souls remake actually uses Ray Tracing, even if it looks gorgeous.

 

Some interviews with the creators of the game included quotes speaking about this graphical feature, but the same guys just confirmed that they had to drop it in a more recent interview.

 

That's definitely one of the reasons most people in this site are not too interested in these consoles: the selling points appear to be concepts like Ray Tracing or RDNA2.

 

I’m very interested in ray tracing and the new processes their using to make these new 7nm cpus/SoC.

[adamchevy]

Looking at both consoles a bit more
Closely over the past week I think they both look great. I would be happy to have either.

[IntelliMission]

A new Assassin's Creed: Valhalla comparison video between the four currently available Xboxes (2 current gen, 2 next gen) shows that Series S (next gen, cheap model) version looks very close to the Xbox X version (the advanced, current gen model). Among these 4 versions, the plain Xbox One graphics are clearly the ones that stand out the most as being much more blurry, with Xbox X looking surprisingly similar to the next gen.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2020 by IntelliMission

[Mockduck]

Either console will be great, so no console war from this person. That said, I have been messing with the DualSense controller for PS5 for a couple of weeks now, and it's the super hotness. The hype has proven real for me so far at least on the PS5 controller, better than the DualShock 4, more comfortable, great tech, seems near perfect for me and my hands. Anyone who's been using Dualshocks for decades can expect to be thrilled IMO. Console aside, and who'da thunk, the controller is a big deal. Final caveats are I don't have a PS5 yet nor active DualSense drivers. 

[carlsson]

Ok, so I'm entirely clueless about modern consoles but I just heard this definition on the radio and without bothering researching, wonder if it holds true.

 

Microsoft Xbox = Maximum resolution, maximum number of frames per second

Sony PlayStation = Fastest possible storage, fastest possible loading times

 

Edited November 13, 2020 by carlsson

[zzip]

20 minutes ago, carlsson said:

Sony PlayStation = Fastest possible storage, fastest possible loading times

The vision that Mark Cerny laid out for PS5 storage is that the PS5 storage is so fast, and it's not just to reduce loading times, it's to change how games are designed.

 

He gave examples of in the time it takes to turn your game character around 180 degrees,  the PS5 could load in an entirely new set of assets--  so you are no longer limited to what fits into memory for a given level.   This will allow much more detailed worlds.   It would also eliminate elevator rides, subway rides, dark passages--  anything the developers put in the game to kill time while they load in new assets.

 

So it will be interesting to see how this ends up working out.   The PS5 SSD is definitely faster than most SSDs on the PC market, so they must have felt the expense of such a fast drive would be worth it.

[IntelliMission]

27 minutes ago, carlsson said:

Ok, so I'm entirely clueless about modern consoles but I just heard this definition on the radio and without bothering researching, wonder if it holds true.

 

Microsoft Xbox = Maximum resolution, maximum number of frames per second

Sony PlayStation = Fastest possible storage, fastest possible loading times

 

In one of the recent comparisons, the same game ran at more frames per second on the PS5 and both versions had the same resolution.

[adamchevy]

It all comes back to games and speed for me. The Xbox Series X is still seriously lacking in next gen content. I appreciate the backwards compatibility, but honestly I’m an old retro gamer that’s played most of the games I love to death on previous Gen consoles. The occasional look back and new UpRez features are a nice nostalgic momentary kick. But honestly I don’t buy Next Gen for that reason.

I want to see some Next Gen games taking full advantage of Next Gen hardware.

 

I’m sorry but a few FPS difference isn’t going to make up for half of the speed in your SSD. Look at the Nintendo Switch. Do you think a half a Teraflop and 5-10fps would make you buy the competitors mostly identical device?

 

I’m a huge Xbox fan and Sony fan, but mainly I play games on a PC. I’ve been building PCs since I was 12 years old(27 years ago now). And many on this site for a lot longer than that. The extra little bit of grunt the Xbox Series X has in Teraflops will not be enough of a defining difference VS Sony’s SSD speed.

 

I also don’t think the SSD speed disparity will be that impactful either, but it matters more than a couple Teraflops considering both consoles nearly identical specs. As usual it comes down to games, but also the innovation of the PS5 controller if utilized is also a big factor. I can see Microsoft releasing a similar controller if Developers start Utilizing the new PS5 controller.

 

I watched almost every Phil Spencer interview over the past year. I was very excited to purchase a Series X up until I saw what games the PS5 had prepared for launch. Also after closely looking at the Specs of each device it turns out the differences are marginal. I really just want my consoles to have as fast as possible load times and act closer to the cartridge based systems I grew up with. It looks like Sony is closer to that goal. I think Phil is an upstanding gamer that really loves what he does. But he also works for the deepest pockets in the business that couldn’t purchase a good game for launch with all of their billions for some reason.

[0078265317]

As stated here PS5 has freezing issues.  And XBOX has disk issues.  So I am holding off for now.

[adamchevy]

I can tell you I’m not impressed with the availability of either one of these consoles so far. But that’s to be expected, especially this year.

[IntelliMission]

I know I will not buy any next gen console, but I admit these images from the Demon's Soul remake on PS5 look pretty good:

 

[IntelliMission]

The graphical improvements from the previous gen seem more visible as you get closer to the models:

 

 

About the PS5 controller, everyone is talking wonders but nobody has been able to really express how it feels. This video may change that:

 

 

[DJ Clae]

I can't find the post you refer to about the PS5 freezing, but yeah, I played the PS5 for one night, and managed to crash Spiderman Miles Morales twice. The second time the whole console locked up, I had to hard power off, and the console went through the hard drive repair sequence. Crashes where you have to hard power off the whole console are rare on Xbox platforms, supposedly because games run inside a virtual container. On the plus side, the hard drive repair sequence was lightning fast on PS5.

[IntelliMission]

I'm not going to buy any of these consoles, but I think we should clarify this misinformation: only around 0,01% PS5 and XSX/XSX consoles are having issues. To say that one of these consoles "has a problem" can be misleading, as it's most likely due to a rare case of defective parts and not to the design of the console, as the wording seems to imply.

[zzip]

2 hours ago, IntelliMission said:

The graphical improvements from the previous gen seem more visible as you get closer to the models:

 

But here's the thing..  when the game is in motion, are you really going to notice these differences?

 

I've got a PS4 and a PC that can play 1440p/Ultra settings.   I have Witcher 3 and a couple other games on both platforms.    Overall it's hard to say that the PC games look much better.   I'm sure if placed them side by side, I would see differences.   But just playing the games normally, they feel identical on both.

[youxia]

15 minutes ago, zzip said:

I've got a PS4 and a PC that can play 1440p/Ultra settings.   I have Witcher 3 and a couple other games on both platforms.    Overall it's hard to say that the PC games look much better.   I'm sure if placed them side by side, I would see differences.   But just playing the games normally, they feel identical on both.

I agree that in general when you actually play games, and not look at them side by side, you might forget about these differences. But  taking it to an extreme, I could say that about playing San Andreas on PS2 vs GTA V on my PC. Both are incredibly fun, and in a way gfx is quite good even on PS2 too.

 

However, there actually is a world of difference between high end PC and a PS4, perhaps most visible when things start to move, vs static display. The framerates matter a lot.  Lack of antialiasing and lower quality textures are also quite visible , even from a distance.

[zzip]

1 hour ago, youxia said:

I agree that in general when you actually play games, and not look at them side by side, you might forget about these differences. But  taking it to an extreme, I could say that about playing San Andreas on PS2 vs GTA V on my PC. Both are incredibly fun, and in a way gfx is quite good even on PS2 too.

But those are games from different generations.

 

I'm talking about games from the current generation.  (PS4/XB1).   The difference between the PS4 versions and PC versions are not as big as everyone makes them out to be.   They use the same assets, maps and most of the same code.   The higher graphical settings on PC give higher texture levels, maybe more draw distance etc.   If you freeze the game and look close, you can see differences in textures and shadows, etc.   When the game is in motion, these differences are hard to spot.   Console games are typically played several feet away from the TV so you are not going to notice these micro details.

 

1 hour ago, youxia said:

However, there actually is a world of difference between high end PC and a PS4, perhaps most visible when things start to move, vs static display. The framerates matter a lot.  Lack of antialiasing and lower quality textures are also quite visible , even from a distance.

True, PC can give you better frame rates if that's your thing.   I much prefer visual quality, and my PC settings reflect that.

 

Antialiasing-  depends on the game.   I just have a handful of games that I have on both PC and PS4,  and I haven't seen anything so far that really justifies spending hundreds of dollars on PC GPUs,  maybe once the next-gen games start to drop on PC, this hardware will start to shine and not be held back by what the PS4/XB1 can do.

[youxia]

12 minutes ago, zzip said:

But those are games from different generations.

 

I'm talking about games from the current generation.  (PS4/XB1).   The difference between the PS4 versions and PC versions are not as big as everyone makes them out to be.   They use the same assets, maps and most of the same code.   The higher graphical settings on PC give higher texture levels, maybe more draw distance etc

These games are from different generations, but the logic is the same - once you start playing and enjoying the game, you might forget about the gfx differences.

 

Obviously,  same-gen games won't be totally different, unlike  Demon's Souls PS3 - PS5 for example. But even in case of the same-gen PC-console platform differences, the elements such as textures, draw distance, and a heap of other things are not "micro details" and are easily observable even when a game is in motion. Of course how important it is, or what it's worth in terms of hardware investment, depends on a person.  But, if somebody is after visual quality then these are its essential components. And so are the framerates, because what's the point of having high image quality if you can't really see it, unless standing still or moving very slowly?

[zzip]

16 minutes ago, youxia said:

These games are from different generations, but the logic is the same - once you start playing and enjoying the game, you might forget about the gfx differences.

Well yeah, when I went from playing Dark Souls 3 (PS4 era) to Dark Souls 2 (PS3 era),  my first reaction was "Wow this looks bad!",  but after playing the game for awhile, I decided it actually looked pretty good.   I suppose you get used to the graphics and style after awhile.   Then when I went back to DS3 after playing DS2, it looked amazing.

 

19 minutes ago, youxia said:

But even in case of the same-gen PC-console platform differences, the elements such as textures, draw distance, and a heap of other things are not "micro details" and are easily observable even when a game is in motion. Of course how important it is, or what it's worth in terms of hardware investment, depends on a person.

If I'm playing a multiplayer shooter,  what I'm focused on is spotting and shooting the other players before they spot me.  I'm not noticing the amazing creases in their uniform, their shadow quality or how their hair moves.   I don't have time to process that information because by then I'm dead!  

 

But even games that aren't so cutthroat.   When GoG was giving out free PC copies of Witcher 3 to people who owned copies on other platforms, I immdiately downloaded it thinking it was going to look amazing on my new 1440p monitor at ultra settings.   When I played it though, I was underwhelmed as it didn't look much different to PS4 at first glance.    Now obviously if I pulled my PS4 into the same room and ran them side by side, I would start finding differences.   But it's not like the old days where you compare a game on Atari 2600 vs Intellivision   or C64 game vs Amiga where the difference in graphics is night and day.   Improved graphics are becoming a diminishing return.

[DJ Clae]

These small details in the shots posted don't make a huge difference in the here and now. However, all these separate small incremental changes add up over time in creating a more convincingly realistic image.

 

I think that's the true generational difference. Who knows what kinds of graphics these next gen consoles will be producing when they reach end of life?

Edited November 16, 2020 by DJ Clae

[zzip]

2 minutes ago, DJ Clae said:

These small details in the shots posted don't make a huge difference in the here and now. However, all these separate small incremental changes add up over time in creating a more convincingly realistic image.

 

I think that's the true generational difference. Who knows what kinds of graphics these next gen consoles will be producing when they reach end of life?

These games run on both the PS4 and PS5 so they will be limited by PS4 to some extent.   Once we start seeing PS5 only games, then we will start seeing the true graphics jump I think.   Same thing happened at the start of the PS4/XB1 generation for games that also ran on PS3/XB360

[IntelliMission]

Games released for both consoles keep looking better for the PS5. Sometimes to a degree of ridiculousness, such as DiRT 5 (screenshots taken from the Digital Foundry comparison video) :

 

 

People are already theorizing what the issue with XSX could be. Some talk about a potential bottleneck, but others point out that the XSX developer tools arrived a bit late to developers. Another theory is that the Series S inferior capabilities are dragging Series X versions.

 

On the other hand, PS5 is having some bugs that are being fixed with patches. Regarding the controllers, the PS5 one is being unanimously praised, even if nobody is still able to actually describe how it feels.

Edited November 21, 2020 by IntelliMission

[adamchevy]

Games released for both consoles keep looking better for the PS5. Sometimes to a degree of ridiculousness, such as DiRT 5 (screenshots taken from the

video) :
 


 
People are already theorizing what the issue with XSX could be. Some talk about a potential bottleneck, but others point out that the XSX developer tools arrived a bit late to developers. Another theory is that the Series S inferior capabilities are dragging Series X versions.
 
On the other hand, PS5 is having some bugs that are being fixed with patches. Regarding the controllers, the PS5 one is being unanimously praised, even if nobody is still able to actually describe how it feels.

I’m totally surprised by how much better the PS5 is doing in direct comparisons like these. It’s strange how much better it performs with almost identical cpu/Ram. It seems like Sony worked some magic somewhere.

[IntelliMission]

27 minutes ago, adamchevy said:

 

I’m totally surprised by how much better the PS5 is doing in direct comparisons like these. It’s strange how much better it performs with almost identical cpu/Ram. It seems like Sony worked some magic somewhere.

Apparently, Jim Cerny explained the magic in a previous interview: instead of a truck that is able to carry 12 tons at a traditional speed, they decided to create one able to carry 8 tons at a very high speed. It looks like it's also super developer friendly. Some people are now pointing out how awesome that "Tomb Raider style" PS5 real-time Unity demo looked a few months ago.