E.X.O. [Done]

[+Muddyfunster]

Thanks @Trebor Fantastic write up and critique as always.

 

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*EDIT:  Very minor nitpick...My *cough*borderline*cough* OCD is begging for the "PRESS FIRE" to be shifted one character space to the left, it is slightly right justified.

Yes indeed

 

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*EDIT 2:  Still testing...This happened once with the prior build and thought maybe the emulator or I just pressed something.  Evidently I was incorrect as a very similar thing just occurred.

 

What just happened: Dropping down from Memento Mori into Descent To Madness the screen goes black and the game locked up immediately.  

 

In the previous build, it was in a different spot (Sorry don't recall the screen names), the screen went black, but shots could still be heard for a bit when firing, then finally game lock-up.

I've not seen this happen in a long time (transition issue), so I thought this bug was squished. Thanks for the detailed description, it's really helpful and gives me something to go on trying to track it down.

 

Thanks again @Trebor

[+Muddyfunster]

The new demo is directly available on the JS7800 emulator from the dropdown.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I played the new A78 file you supplied last night and ran into two issues I thought were odd.

 

1st, is that I could only fire the missiles using the C button on my keyboard? This is strange because I have buttons Z and X mapped to buttons 1 an 2 and confirmed this was still the way it is with other games. So I don't know why E.X.O. didn't fire missiles unless I used button C (That I didn't think was mapped to anything?).

 

Second issue was once when going back up from the Mori screen, it just went to solid black and stopped responding. Similar to what @Trebor reported only he was going down a screen and I had it happen going up a screen.

 

This was all when using the A7800 emulator's latest version.

 

[+Muddyfunster]

Thank's @-^CrossBow^-

 

I don't know about the controls changing on A7800. I use both A7800 and JS7800 to test and I use a game pad so I'm not sure why the key config would change between games. I think A7800 is a mame branch and I remember from MAME that you could set controls "per game" so that does sound like an emulator setting.

 

Thanks for confirming the transition issue. I've tried for a good hour today and could not replicate it - it's frustrating to say the least  

 

I need to go back to the code and take a look what's happening there again, line by line. It also seems isolated to those two screens and the transition between them.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

[Trebor]

4 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

1st, is that I could only fire the missiles using the C button on my keyboard? This is strange because I have buttons Z and X mapped to buttons 1 an 2 and confirmed this was still the way it is with other games. So I don't know why E.X.O. didn't fire missiles unless I used button C (That I didn't think was mapped to anything?).

By default, A7800 maps Button 1 = Z | Button 2 = C.   If remapping has been performed, something to keep in mind is each console temperature and region maintains its own set of controller mappings.

 

So for instance, if the mapping was updated for NTSC Cool, it does not impact NTSC Warm, NTSC Hot, or any of the PAL systems.

 

While in-game, press the 'Tab' key, arrow down to "Console & Controller Inputs", press 'Enter' and it lays out exactly what the current mappings are for the console.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I will double check it but I only ever use Console cold since I just like to hit enter a bunch to get to the emulator and then press TAB to select the game. I know that in other games I have it mapped as Z and X because I don't care for the spacing of Z and C but it isn't a huge deal. The black screen issue you and I both found is a bugger to get dealt with though.

 

The rest of it is just me sucking at it and not paying attention LOL! 

 

And now I'm not good at Cybernoid at all!

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

So wish I could try this on actual hardware. I'm playing the .A78 file right now in A7800 and experiencing another bug I've had happen on multiple screens. Right now on the screen known as Acta Non Verba, I've found that sometimes when you come to rest on a flat spot that your ship suddenly won't move left or right and you can only move up and down? But once I'm off the flat platform I can then move left and right and up and down without issue. But then if I set down on it again, I might not be able to move left and right while rested on that platform? 

 

Okay...just had the black screen thing happen again. This time I had the Generator taken out first, then got the keycard and it happened on my way back as I was going up from Central Cavern up to Pirates Cove to go through the last part of level 1.

 

Also a few instances of getting stuck on objects like the the tubes and other obstacles on the screen.

 

[Trebor]

9 hours ago, Muddyfunster said:

The new demo is directly available on the JS7800 emulator from the dropdown.

Nothing new to report...but I do have this to show...

 

 

Nice job on another black/blank screen trigger @-^CrossBow^-...wish we could just find what causes it. 

 

I've only seen it once so far, and can't thing of anything out of the ordinary.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I've actually had the black screen issue happen 2 out of the last 5 plays I've attempted over the last 2 days. So it seems to happen quite often in A7800 at least for me.

 

[+Muddyfunster]

Thanks guys,

 

The blackscreen issue, I don't know what's causing this yet. I have a few ideas but I can't replicate it.

 

During all of the testing I've done tonight I've not had it happen once. I've sat and done over 400 screen transitions on the screens where it's been noted to occur. I added some code traps so I know which part of the code is triggering it. Not a single occurrence. Not a sniff. I've no doubt it's happening because you are seeing it. This is going to be a pain to track down

 

I've changed some code that was not optimal, but as I can't reliably replicate the issue , I don't know if that's made any difference yet.

 

Sticking to floors and ceilings. This is a glitch I know about. I've worked on this tonight and found a few spots where I could replicate the effect fairly consistently. I think there are a couple of things causing it, one, i've fixed so it doesn't happen any where near as often, the other, well I know the cause but the fix is eluding me for now  .

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Trebor]

1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I've actually had the black screen issue happen 2 out of the last 5 plays I've attempted over the last 2 days. So it seems to happen quite often in A7800 at least for me.

Hmm...you may be nailing/triggering it really close every time, to repeat it almost half the time playing; 40% is pretty high.  I kid you not, I stopped counting after well over a dozen and a half games and it just occurred twice in probably 16+ games.

 

I always hit the first checkpoint computer on Broom Cupboard and head down. I tried toggling between the next two consecutive boards Memento Mori and Descent To Madness and back and forth over and over shooting, not shooting, sporadic pattern, all sorts of ways to try triggering something - but I did not get anything to happen on multiple attempts.

[Trebor]

HA!  Just had it occur under BupSystem going up and down between the two boards Broom Cupboard and Memento Mori.  I was firing lasers and had also the AI parallel with me:

 

 

...Ok...screenshot kind of pointless...LoL...Let me see if I can do it again - this time I'm taking video footage.

 

*EDIT: 30 consecutive minutes back and forth between boards and nothing happened.  This is a tough nut to crack.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Okay, I just played 4 straight games in a row. Besides the occasional getting stuck issue I spoke about before. I wasn't able to get the black screen issue to come up this time? The ONLY thing different was that I was playing in Cool console mode on A7800 and I had OBS running to record the footage in case that would help show when things go south. But now that the game knows we are watching it. It is behaving...

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

Okay game #5 just now I go the black screen and was able to record it happening. Now I did notice something on this that I at first thought my imagination but now I'm fairly certain. The black screen issue seems to crop up if I've also had several instances of the ship getting stuck on flat platforms I spoke about earlier. So if that happens a few times as I'm playing, it seems it is more likely that the black screen issue will pop up. And like before it happen as I was entering Pirates Cove. I came from the left side of the previous screen moving up into that screen the black out occurs.

 

Here is the video of that game play with an additional bonus graphic explosion glitch I can reproduce each time.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-FVz0jnWE6J_z3m7x2qVLJSHj8ZAsDMw/view?usp=sharing

 

Here are the timeframes of when things happen:

 

I get stuck on the flat surfaces dropping down onto them etc at these points in the video-

1:47 - Acta Non Versa (You can see I drop and just stick to the platform in this spot)

2:04, 2:07, 2:09 - Mustang Sally (Here I get stuck as I try to first get past the eye guard. Luckily I'm able to still go up here and not be stuck stuck. But I ended up having to go back up and back towards the left before it wouldn't stick me at that point preventing me from moving left to get through.)

2:38 - Central Cavern (It is here as I enter this room from the right and back towards the upper left to Pirates Cove that it goes black and is locked at that point

 

2:41 - Acta Non Versa ( I show a graphic double explosion glitch when I take out the generator. If you are really close to it or even touching it when you take it out with the missile, you will see it explode and a twin explosion on the left hand side where the bottom missile used to be when I first entered the room.

 

 

[+Muddyfunster]

9 hours ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

2:41 - Acta Non Versa ( I show a graphic double explosion glitch when I take out the generator. If you are really close to it or even touching it when you take it out with the missile, you will see it explode and a twin explosion on the left hand side where the bottom missile used to be when I first entered the room.

Ok this one took some snagging.

 

I could replicate it every time (the video examples are fantastic by the way!) but there was no reason why the ghost explosion should exist, or so I thought...

 

I tracked it down to be not the rocket you destroyed but the player bomb explosion. It could only occur when destroying the generator due to a sloppy code call that bypassed the usual logic to clear down the position variables after the explosion of the players bomb.

 

Now fixed

[+-^CrossBow^-]

1 hour ago, Muddyfunster said:

I could replicate it every time (the video examples are fantastic by the way!) but there was no reason why the ghost explosion should exist, or so I thought...

Being able to see these things in action is always the best way compared to our descriptions. You are likely to also notice other things we don't know about such as when a particular enemy is at on screen that helps clue you in on something or some graphic glitch you notice that we think is normal...etc.

 

Do you know if you have the means to view raw .mov files properly? The original files are actually about 2x smaller in size than the rendered mp4 I end up with after editing. The original video above was over 30min in length and yet the original .mov file that OBS recorded was less than 200mb in size. But the rendered .mp4 above ended up being about the same size as the original but has much less content. If you can I might not bother with editing them at all but that would be a lot more to sift through and watch that might not be needed.

 

[+Muddyfunster]

I can view .mov files no problem, which ever is easier for you:)

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I will try that on the next go around later and likely keep it to PMs at that point so we don't clutter this thread.

 

[+Muddyfunster]

@-^CrossBow^- Thanks again, the detailed feedback is superb.

 

I've been working on fixed to the issues you captured and noted.

 

Blackscreen. I've still not had this happen but I've made a few code changes that I hope will help this.

 

Sticking to stuff - I've mode some fixes here and I've been flying around for a good hour and I've not stuck to a surface yet so I'm hopeful this is also fixed.

 

I also rewrote the code that does the enemy missile explosions. This code was some of the earliest I wrote and because it "worked" I didn't update it. The old code meant that if a rocket exploded or was destroyed you got an explosion, but not more than 1 at a time (it glitches), new code is happy with many rockets fully exploding.

 

Rewriting some more rocket handling code to make them more efficient & will pop a new ROM up later.

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I didn't record it but I played 5 games last night. the first 2 I played gave me the black screen condition. First time was just like before after taking out the Generator I moved back up to Pirates Cove and it would black screen on me. The second game gave me the black screen not long after I got the keycard and was when I was moving to the screen left of the one with the missiles that are facing down with the eye guard on the platform just above them to the right side of the screen? I will try and notate which screen name it was later.

 

3rd game didn't have any issues and was able to complete the demo dying only once.

 

4th game black screened on me again when moving up to pirates cove after taking out the generator and having gotten the keycard. So it happened on my last leg of the demo run.

5th game didn't give me any problems and I ended up loosing all of my lives trying to find ways to speed run through the screens hehe.

 

[GrenMag]

Since A7800 is a MAME derivative, does it support input recording?  Might be a way to replicate the screen transition issue unless it is extremely timing sensitive...

Edited September 18, 2020 by GrenMag

[+Muddyfunster]

New build.

 

Fixes the ghost explosion on the generator.

Code changes to fix the intermittent sticking.

Code changes to fix back screen (wip).

Rocket explosion code updated.

 

 

[+Muddyfunster]

Seems a common trigger is moving up into Pirate's Cove. I hope the new code changes in the alpha6 binary fixes this.  

 

[+-^CrossBow^-]

I've not tried this yet since you just released it. But last night I did play 3 games on A7800 and a few games on JS7800. Guess what?

 

I've only been able to get the black screen condition to happen on A7800 and NOT been able to get it on JS7800 yet. Although I did find an interesting bug on JS7800 that doesn't happen on A7800. When I finished the Demo. It takes you back to the screen to press the fire button to start the game. If you do this on JS7800, it repeats the ending cutscene instead of restarting the game? On A7800 it will restart the game as normal.

 

So part of this could also be issues with the emulators themselves. This is why we need to get this playing on metal to validate this more.

 

 

[+Muddyfunster]

1 hour ago, -^CrossBow^- said:

I've not tried this yet since you just released it. But last night I did play 3 games on A7800 and a few games on JS7800. Guess what?

 

I've only been able to get the black screen condition to happen on A7800 and NOT been able to get it on JS7800 yet. Although I did find an interesting bug on JS7800 that doesn't happen on A7800. When I finished the Demo. It takes you back to the screen to press the fire button to start the game. If you do this on JS7800, it repeats the ending cutscene instead of restarting the game? On A7800 it will restart the game as normal.

 

So part of this could also be issues with the emulators themselves. This is why we need to get this playing on metal to validate this more.

 

 

That's actually a good point and is one of the reasons I stopped using BupSystem to test. I was getting inconsistencies that the other two emulators and real hardware (from the last matteos version) did not show. It could also be why I've not been able to duplicate as like I said, probably 85% of my testing is on JS7800 (I tend to use JS7800 as it skips the header so I get to the ROM faster, which for the amount of testing I do has probably saved me hours :P)

 

 

I'll see about cutting a version of this build for 128k Mateos tonight.  Lets see what happens when we hit the metal.